[Discussion]Light Mechs: Why Are They Here?
#21
Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:43 AM
Yes, this is heavy-Clan-laser-alpha online, but sometimes a whiteknuckle thrill ride is what you need.
#22
Posted 09 July 2018 - 09:00 AM
Incursion guess who gets "the job" of radar and jaming? Play with pugs who don't use those vs a team that does. Using them to your advantage is what it is for. Lights can also snipe at the bases and destroy them with the proper long range weapon and high or low attack angle avoiding triggering those 100% hit rate defenses.
Assault mode you can easily use your slow meat shields to slow the enemy and cap with a wolf pack or just send one light to decoy the enemy instead.
A good light mech scout can give early warning about meta mechs like dual h gass,ssrm,dual ac 20 and other such builds the team could focus fire removing those threats making it easier to finish off the rest of the enemy instead of taking heavy losses and damage or just losing out right.
I've got a locust set up for just scouting with only two er mls and xl 170. Maxed sensors mobility bap and a tc mk1 along with full uav and strikes in aux tree. It does nothing for direct damage or fighting other mechs but when I finally get that magical rare pug drop of experienced smart borg like hive minded pugs it can do great things in prioritizing enemy threads.
#23
Posted 09 July 2018 - 09:03 AM
Vesper11, on 09 July 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:
That's true and the reason why many light pilots die so early. But what would you do if i'm not in the back of your team all alone, but rather on the outer flanks where i still have some support? More often than not my target either hunts me and walks into a surprise or he tries to evade me because he knows that i'm not too far away from my team to safely hunt me down. With some experience you are rarely at mercy of enemy skill even in knife-fighting distance.
The thing i love about lights is that you always dictate where and who you fight and that you can easily be where you are able to deal the most damage. And more often than not that's when you are right beside your pushing assaults and simply shoot what they shoot.
Vesper11, on 09 July 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:
I agree, but since in reality nascar happens very often in QP if you want to do good consistently then you should choose a mech that profits from this environment. And for me that's not slow-as-heck assaults despite their massive firepower.
Vesper11, on 09 July 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:
While it's true that lights can afford to run away to cool down, it's wasting lots of precious time. I can't count the times where i had the opportunity to safely deal 100+ dmg to a distracted enemy but had not the heat reserves to do so. That's the real reason why the PIR-2 is so inferior to the PIR-1. In theory the PIR-2 can be built to do a staggered alpha of 97,5 with 15 HSL within 2,2s unskilled which btw is more than most assaults can do.
Here the raw burst damage is not the problem, but after the first shot cooldown takes ages which has the same effect as a direwolf crawling to the front: You can't fight and deal damage for a looong time. But the Direwolf at least can deal much more than 97dmg with it's heat capacity than the PIR-2 once it is in position.
And while the PIR-1 has almost no alpha, it can capitalize on every small chance it gets to deal damage. All the PIR-1 needs is an distracted enemy to do much more than 97 dmg without generating any heat which in turn enables it to go for the next opportunity instead of hiding for 20+ seconds.
Vesper11, on 09 July 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:
That's what i meant of cause. I was speaking of competent light pilots, not those who run off to die first behind enemy lines.
Edited by Daggett, 09 July 2018 - 09:08 AM.
#24
Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:00 AM
Vesper11, on 09 July 2018 - 07:08 AM, said:
- "pseudolights" with sub 100 kph mostly used as mediums(lvom/srm/ssrm adder/kfx/cougar, mpl urbanmech, peep/lvom panther)
- "pseudomeds" with ~120+ kph used as lights (old ye spl+mg viper, splat/ssrm acw-1, mpl/ermed "mad fridge", mpl cic, splat assassins)
But to clarify: lights in the poll are only a weight category.
Edited by Lethe Wyvern, 09 July 2018 - 11:26 AM.
#25
Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:19 AM
#26
Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:43 AM
The lore never says anything like that. At all. Ever.
For the most part, specific 'Mechs are designed around specific roles. That is true of every weight class. Faster 'Mechs do tend to be better suited for recon and harassment roles; that is also true. However, not every light 'Mech is built for those roles... and not every 'Mech designed for those roles specifically proved to be limited to or by them.
From the Piranha's description on Sarna: "These are a serious threat to any foe on such a speedy 'Mech, especially if a Star of Piranhas operate in a pack, and such a large array allows the 'Mech to chew through an opponent's rear armor almost instantly. They are most deadly, however, to unarmored infantry, capable of wiping out an entire company in seconds." Because the ability of the 'Mech to defeat armor quickly is specifically mentioned, it is abundantly clear this is not intended to just be some kind of ultimate anti-infantry platform. Yes, it does that very well because the sort of MGs carried on 'Mechs make infantry into chunky salsa... but the writer went out of their way to highlight the Piranha's effectiveness against armored opponents. Ergo, the Piranha is intended for the role it is used for in MWO: that of a 'Mech killer.
Moving on.
The Solitaire, which we don't have yet in MWO, is a nasty piece of work. It carries a stock loadout of 1xHLL, 2xHML, and 1xHSL, and runs at 162kph (which, in MWO terms means it'd max out at 174kph after speed tweak). Its description defines its role thusly: "The Solitaire relies on a full compliment of heavy energy weapons. Even though the ten double heat sinks cannot possibly dissipate the heat, the typical warrior will move into position and then perform a full strike with the single Model X Heavy Large Laser, the Model II Heavy Small Laser, and the two Model V Heavy Medium Lasers." How does that not sound like exactly what striker lights currently do in MWO? Get in, puke up an alpha or two, get out. It's meant to kill 'Mechs.
The Urbanmech. It just had to be mentioned. Do we really need more detail here?
The Adder- primary configuration 2xCERPPC, which with TT's brokenly OP Clantech was a pair of 15-point hits... or the same firepower as carried by an Inner Sphere Awesome, but with better damage focus because the firepower was concentrated into fewer weapons. Most of its alternate configurations revolve around other long-range sniper and support configs, but all are built around at least medium-bore ACs, large energy weapons, and large missile racks. One's even got a HAG-20. The Cougar is a direct descendant of the Adder, which is also typically built arount pairs of large energy or missile weapons, pairs of medium ballistics, or single large ballistics (notably Gauss and UAC10) with backup weapons. These are pretty obviously designed as 'Mech killers, as they're far too slow for scouting roles and (with the exception of one Jihad-era Cougar variant) tend to carry weapons which aren't as well suited for fighting non-'Mech opponents.
The Jenner and the Panther are two of the most iconic Inner Sphere lights. The Jenner was designed as a fast striker, while the Panther was meant for direct fire support, and the DCMS often paired them up so that their Jenners would be able to rely on the slower Panthers to engage enemies at long range while they closed in to finish the job with their short-ranged weapons. From the Jenner's description: "A favorite tactic of Jenner lances was to gang up on larger 'Mechs and unleash a devastating alpha strike .... A few seconds later the attack would be repeated until finally the enemy was dead." Once again- that's MWO light gameplay in a nutshell.
Speaking of Jenners, the Wolfhound was a joint venture by the Davions and Steiners (predating the FedCom by a few years) to finally put a stop to marauding Jenner lances. So... another example of a 'Mech built to fight 'Mechs.
Then we have the Hollander, also not yet in MWO, which was designed as a mobile sniper in response to the Clans' use of the Kit Fox's alternate config. A in the same role. I'm pretty sure neither one was intended to use their Gauss rifle for infantry suppression.
So, to answer the original question... lights are here to kill 'Mechs. Just like everything else in this game. Killing 'Mechs is the core gameplay loop. It is worth noting that the Jenner, of all the lights in Battletech, was the first light 'Mech in MWO back when it only had a single example of each weight class. That is no accident. They could have given the Spider or the Commando first nod but instead picked the Jenner, famed for its ability to hunt and kill larger, heavier 'Mechs. The current use of lights in this game, as strikers and assassins, was not just intended- it was the entire point of their inclusion on day one. Was that enough emphasis, or should I have done that in red? Their other roles (recon, harassment, light fire support, etc), such as they are and to the extent that they exist in gameplay, were added later, as an afterthought.
#27
Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:56 AM
#28
Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:06 PM
Backstabs
Harassing
Letting myself be lrm locked and using one piece of cover over and over again to waste their time, heat, and ammo
Breaking lines
Making people panic
Popping UAVS over the enemy team
Strike kiting (that is to say, using a strike in an attempt to get the enemy to move a certain way)
Demolishing isolated mechs
Peeling Potatos
Fighting other lights
Scouting enemy movement at the beginning of match
I go out of my way to be the biggest pain in the *** possible. (sometimes literally)
#29
Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:37 PM
Best game I've had was in my Death knell. 11kill and over 1k damage done... don't tell me lights can't do heavy lifting..
#31
Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:34 PM
#32
Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:45 PM
Generally polls are set up with neutral wording very intentionally. Really hope you already know this and are going full troll.
#33
Posted 09 July 2018 - 03:01 PM
Vxheous, on 09 July 2018 - 05:41 AM, said:
Because we give people freedom to speak any dumb thought they want without consequences.
So every single idea (mostly dumb ones) can be telegraphed over and over and over again like reruns of Seinfeld.
Alex Morgaine, on 09 July 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:
Avg speed of most of my lights anymore (IS especially with LFE) is like 118kph.
You are relying on lag shield to much and not your Skills as a pilot.
Also, OP.
We have light so i can pull 6 kills, 11000 dmg and feel like a god over the tater tots. Hard mode is best mode.
Edited by Revis Volek, 09 July 2018 - 03:02 PM.
#34
Posted 09 July 2018 - 03:14 PM
#35
Posted 09 July 2018 - 03:37 PM
trial mechs locked into carrying ECM and wasting tonnage based on a system that is no longer in effect are a detriment to the team as the ecm they provide is fake and is just a false hope... How many trial cheetas are we seeing in this event atm.. dont count on the ecm they have to provide any lurm protection.. Instead its locked in dead weight that could be better spent on a heatsink...
ECM is sooo beneficial to light mechs and whatever role they play the skill tree requirements yet new light mechs that can carry it are better off without it until they've played like 30 matches and can dump enough skills into the tree to make ECM REAL..
so IMHO the role of light mechs are to get mashed like potatos until they can dump enough skills to get things they desperately need to survive and support.. The only light mechs i think are perofming well are the MG boats and jenners that can sport a good load of SRM.. without the ECM spotting is just useless to try as you get targeted really fast and lurmed..
#36
Posted 09 July 2018 - 04:15 PM
#37
Posted 09 July 2018 - 07:28 PM
I have been in matches where the lights refused to press "R" because it would give away their position and make the backstabbing difficult. (the pilot's statement on mic or in chat - not my opinion).
When I play a light, I scout - and get very low scores because there isn't much reward in a game scaled to reward damage.
Edited by Phlynn, 09 July 2018 - 07:30 PM.
#38
Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:00 PM
SCCOJake, on 09 July 2018 - 06:37 AM, said:
Daggett, on 09 July 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:
JediPanther, on 09 July 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:
WrathOfDeadguy, on 09 July 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:
Nameless King, on 09 July 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:
Thank you guys for expanded answers!
#39
Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:19 PM
I'm talking about Piranha, Flea, Assassin, and Urbanmech..
Piranha and Flea are punching above their weight, while Assassin and Urbanmech seem to have hitreg issues that make them soak up damage..
Urbanemech especially, which earned it the nickname - Mini Atlas.. Only yesterday I hit one nearly point blank with 2 x LBX10 + 6 x CERMED, and the thing didn't even change a shade.. It's absurd.. full alpha to the face.. nothing... and it killed my Blood Asp with machineguns..
How fair is that?
I'm not saying lights need to be removed.. many people love playing them... but some lights are really not cool.
#40
Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:28 AM
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