18 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

The Nova, Kit-fox, and Piranha all have something what I.S doesn't have and that's 3+ AMS
I was thinking that maybe I.S should get the same or near tonnage worth of AMS mechs

Like
Kit-Fox= Hitman/Battle-hawk/Hermes/Hussar
Piranha= 20-25 ton mechs like the Mercury/Hornet/Wasp/Nexus (25 because AMS is heavy)
Nova=45-50 tons Chameleon/Star-Slayer/Komodo/Wolf Trap/Enfield/Wyvern


Any new mech or variant is fine, just as long as we get 3+ AMS

[Grus]

Why? Clans shouldn't be using lrms...

[Armored Yokai]

Grus, on 09 July 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

Why? Clans shouldn't be using lrms...

it will happen regardless and there's other weapons than LRMs.
and maybe there's a chance it will be I.S vs I.S in the future?

[Grus]

Armored Yokai, on 09 July 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

it will happen regardless and there's other weapons than LRMs.
and maybe there's a chance it will be I.S vs I.S in the future?

Can't the Atlas D dc carry ecm and ams?

[LT. HARDCASE]

The Komodo has 2 AMS stock, I suppose PGI could inflate that to 3 or 4 to make people happy.

It'd also be the perfect platform for PGI to create a custom variant with a stupid number of ballistics.

[JediPanther]

If you're getting that much lrm you want 3 ams you are in the open way too much. Even with the lrm velocity change and skill tree velocity maps still have tons of cover. More ams really won't do you much good any way. I've got 1-2 ams aplenty on my IS mechs and it is always better to use cover than try and let your ams be a faux lrm shield.

It only takes a few mechs with ams to ruin a lrm boat's day. Six lrm 5's use to be a fun cptl a1 build until more people ran ams, mounted lams, or there is a tri-fox or tri ams nova on the field. Nothing makes lrming worse (except those enemy lights) than seeing your entire lrm salvo go poof to a wall of ams fire hence the reason you see heavier and assault mechs boating more and more lrms to get past the ams walls.

That's not even taking into consideration all the forty plus soft and hard counters to lrm or the tonnage of equipment IS need to use to make lrms worth the weight. You could take a pgi invented ams boat mech of six ams and you'd still be better off just using cover.

[Dee Eight]

Armored Yokai, on 09 July 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

The Nova, Kit-fox, and Piranha all have something what I.S doesn't have and that's 3+ AMS
I was thinking that maybe I.S should get the same or near tonnage worth of AMS mechs

Like
Kit-Fox= Hitman/Battle-hawk/Hermes/Hussar
Piranha= 20-25 ton mechs like the Mercury/Hornet/Wasp/Nexus (25 because AMS is heavy)
Nova=45-50 tons Chameleon/Star-Slayer/Komodo/Wolf Trap/Enfield/Wyvern


Any new mech or variant is fine, just as long as we get 3+ AMS

What difference would it make....the majority of IS players are too dumb to even carry a single AMS when their mech supports them, let alone the couple dozen or so mechs which can take two of them, which again, players aren't equipping them with. How does adding a 3rd AMS hardpoint alter the existing problem of NOT CARRYING even one AMS ?

[SuperMCDad]

I've been doing OK running around in a twin AMS fully overloaded javelin lately. 3T of ammo, can knock out 800-900 missiles per match (when in the right place at the right time). 4 ERML and top speed of ~160kph. Would like to swap in a laser AMS, as I occasionally run out of ammo, but just too hot.

Edited by SuperMCDad, 09 July 2018 - 07:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 09 July 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Can't the Atlas D dc carry ecm and ams?

As iff ECM were any good at covering the team these days...


RIP 180 m radius jesus box.

[Dragonporn]

I fail to see how more than 1 AMS can not be a total waste, well maybe in very-very particular (possibly GP/CW drops) situations, but ECM + AMS is definitely an overkill considering how much skill point you'll have to waste for systems that literally do the same thing, but utilities are a bit different, as are skill point costs... So maybe it would be parity to give IS one of those, but honestly don't see any reason actually.

[FLG 01]

Dee Eight, on 09 July 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

How does adding a 3rd AMS hardpoint alter the existing problem of NOT CARRYING even one AMS ?

The problem is that one AMS is not worth the tonnage. Sure, if all your team brings AMS too, it might be ok. But in solo QP you could easily end up having the only AMS, and then...
...then your one little AMS is no real help, it's pissing in the wind.

If you spend tonnage and skill points on AMS, it should be at least dual AMS to have some effect on the enemy LRMs/ATMs. I don't bother with single AMS unless I can't help it (because the alternative would be the even worse TC1 or BAP).

JediPanther, on 09 July 2018 - 07:23 PM, said:

If you're getting that much lrm you want 3 ams you are in the open way too much.

It's not about any (in)ability to defend against LRMs, it's simply a gap in the IS's capabilities. Triple AMS can help the team, and it surely helps the own score. And we cannot do it.

Whether or not I can deal with LRMs - I usually can - is a totally unrelated issue and no reason to deny me triple AMS.

[NimoStar]

IS mechs have better AMS quirks and clans have ATM which are extremely vulnerable to AMS.

Plus, clan LRM are streamfire so weaker to AMS too.

Edited by NimoStar, 09 July 2018 - 10:26 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Grus, on 09 July 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

Why? Clans shouldn't be using lrms...

And yet, Clans have the best LRM boats in the game... ;-)

But trust me.. A 3AMS IS mech will not help you much..

My LRM boats eat Irondomes for breakfast.

[Lykaon]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 July 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

As iff ECM were any good at covering the team these days...


RIP 180 m radius jesus box.

Here is the funny thing about AMS. The AMS that protects a mech best is an AMS that is not on the mech being targeted by LRMs but an AMS (or 3) mounted on a mech 120+ meters in front of the targeted mech.

AMS engages missiles that enter it's area of effect (120m dome around the AMS equipped mech) and continues to fire on any missiles that remain within the AMS effect.

So A mech that has an AMS on it has an AMS exposure area of 120-0m protecting it's self but twice the exposure area protecting a mech that is at least 120m directly behind it.The missiles enter the AMS effects at 120m travel through the effected bubble and pass over the center of the bubble at 0m and as the missiles now pass through the other half of AMS effects the missiles are exposed to twice the amount of time/exposure to AMS than they would have had if they targeted the mech mounting AMS (ending the missiles flight at 0m) as the missiles continue to fly through the AMS effects from 0 to negative 120m.

Now when we have a mech like a Kitfox with 3 AMS and an ECM it is much safer to vanguard ahead of the team and possition so your mech will be 120m or more ahead of a team mate that is under LRM attack. By having the ECM on the kitfox it vastly improves the chances that the Kitfox it's self will not be the target of LRM volleys even though ironicly missiles targeting the Kitfox will be exposed to half the AMS time as missiles targets at a mech behind the Kitfox.

JediPanther, on 09 July 2018 - 07:23 PM, said:

If you're getting that much lrm you want 3 ams you are in the open way too much.

With a mech that has that much focus on AMS it's no longer about "you" but about whoever on your team is getting nailed by LRMs at the time.

And,as I pointed out getting your triple AMS chassis out in front of the target if at all possible to maximize you ams's ability to defend them.

[A Man In A Can]

LT. HARDCASE, on 09 July 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

The Komodo has 2 AMS stock, I suppose PGI could inflate that to 3 or 4 to make people happy.

And it has ECM too along with 11 energy mounts stock. The IS combo of a stock Nova and an iron dome Kit Fox on a Cougar-shaped battlemech. 45 tons with 295 engine if in MWO and jump jets. Has potential.

[Muujig612]

I want 3 AMS Centurion. I love that mech.

[Abaddun]

The idea is that most clan battlemechs lack the option of an AMS, though they are supported by utility mechs like the kitfox and nova who provide wide area AMS coverage to the team.

[Muujig612]

Abaddun, on 10 July 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:

The idea is that most clan battlemechs lack the option of an AMS, though they are supported by utility mechs like the kitfox and nova who provide wide area AMS coverage to the team.

All Clan battlemechs can mount AMS. What are you talking about?

[Y E O N N E]

NimoStar, on 09 July 2018 - 10:06 PM, said:

IS mechs have better AMS quirks and clans have ATM which are extremely vulnerable to AMS.

Plus, clan LRM are streamfire so weaker to AMS too.

Better AMS quirks? Wat? Wrong and bad, as expected from you.

IS 'Mechs with AMS quirks:

JVN-10F (10% Rate of Fire, 2x AMS)
JVN-10N (10% Rate of Fire, 2x AMS)
WLF-1B (20% Range, 2x AMS).

Clans:

MLX (20% Rate of Fire + 10% Range, 2x AMS)
KFX (5% Rate of Fire + 10% Range, 3x AMS)
ADR (10% Rate of Fire, 1x AMS)
IFR (10% Range + 10% Rate of Fire, 2x AMS)
SHC (7.5% Rate of Fre + 5% Range, 1x AMS)
NVA (30% Rate of Fire, 3x AMS)
SMN (20% Rate of Fire, 15% Range, 2x AMS)

...and that's before any Set of 8 effects, if there are any.


Also, the cLRMs fire in much bigger total numbers per weight of 'Mech than isLRMs do and that's one of the reasons it's the stronger CLAG right now, the others being that you can fit cXL to reposition much more reliably and that the stream fire tends to make the damage focus slightly better (especially on legs).

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 10 July 2018 - 03:48 PM.