70 replies to this topic

[Grus]

Alkabides, on 10 July 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Laser damage reduction % should degrade as damage inflicted by say an AC or missles? Scruffs up the reflective surface.

if fireing ballistics at a reflective armor deal extra damage due to the construction of the armor. Same for energy fireing at ballistic armor.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Grus, on 10 July 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

Your thinking of a Plasma cannon.

I'm inclined to think that Mystere is thinking about actual physics phenomena that would be associated with a directed blast with charged particles like protons / ions when hitting a system like a mech. You're pretty much talking lightning with the the added kinetic effects of protons / ions instead of electrons -> The game could "simulate" a combined effect that accounts for

- the massive thermal effect a.k.a. heat spike that the mech would have to dissipate.

- the electromagnetic and electric systems effects that would be induced to the system. Shielding can do many things but doesn't work wonders. There's already precedence by PPCs temporarily disrupting ECM / Stealth armor.

- whatever impulse the protons / ions transfer upon impact in form of "screen shake".

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 10 July 2018 - 11:45 AM.

[lazorbeamz]

This armor will be one of the two things: 100% used or 0% used sort of similarly to how stealth armor is 0% used. Depending on its negatives. Its not going to be a good addition to the game in either case. We need a universal solution that doesnt end up being useless or being a must have. And we need the laser problem fixed for all players regardless of which armors they use. Everyone wants to play a balanced game.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 10 July 2018 - 12:26 PM.

[Cloves]

Would still need a laser nerf, or you just nerfed lights and mediums and omnimechs, just to save your lasers. Not everyone should have to take a 7-14 crit slot hit so that you can keep a weapon system that does huge damage for small tonnage at reasonable heat. That being said, still looking forward to that honey badger launcher.

[dwwolf]

Standard armor is 32 points per ton.
Clan FF gives 20% more per ton than standard = 38.4 points / ton
IS FF is 12% more armor = 35.2 points/ ton

Reflect stats:
10% heavier than 32 points/ ton = ~28.8 points per ton; 30% less damage vs lasers = divide armor by 0.7 = 41.1 pts of armor vs lasers.
10% heavier than 32 points/ ton = ~28.8 points per ton; 20% less damage vs lasers = divide armor by 0.8 = 36 pts of armor vs lasers.

Conclusions:
At a 20% bonus vs lasers IS mech pilots would be idiots to take Reflec armor over IS FF armor.
Armor vs lasers would increase by a measly 2% while armor vs other damage sources would decrease by 18.2%.
At 30% IS would gain 16.7% extra armor vs losing 18.2% vs other damage sources.

At 20% Clanners would never benefit from reflec armor.
At 30% Clanners would gain 7% protection vs lasers and lose 26.6% vs other damage sources.

Edited by dwwolf, 10 July 2018 - 01:03 PM.

[Nightbird]

Really, maffing is great but reflective armor exists, it takes 10 slots, and cuts all energy damage by 50%. It's just not avaiable until 3080.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

No need to make up stats, laser reflective armor, reactive armor, hardened armor all exist in Battletech... in 3080 and after. MWO won't mess with this so it'll be added when the year is right.

Reflective armor was around long before 3080. It just wasn't widely available. There is no need to strictly adhere to canon if it makes for a better video game.

[Nightbird]

No need, but PGI will.

[Ilfi]

It's a cool idea that exists in the canon, but not a solution that PGI would be happy with, let alone something they'd implement effectively.

[Nightbird]

They implemented light ferro and steal armor during the last timeskip? It will be implemented and will really shake things up.

[dwwolf]

Pffft Canon.

Canon SRMs are (limited) guided missiles.
Canon LBX AC have the same damage potential and hit bonus at all ranges, ours decreases over range. Mechanics wise this points to a Proximity fused shell over a shotgun type shell.

[Nightbird]

Stealth*

dwwolf, on 10 July 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

Pffft Canon.

Canon SRMs are (limited) guided missiles.
Canon LBX AC have the same damage potential and hit bonus at all ranges, ours decreases over range. Mechanics wise this points to a Proximity fused shell over a shotgun type shell.

Blame that on Cryengine

[Requiemking]

dwwolf, on 10 July 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

Pffft Canon.

Canon SRMs are (limited) guided missiles.
Canon LBX AC have the same damage potential and hit bonus at all ranges, ours decreases over range. Mechanics wise this points to a Proximity fused shell over a shotgun type shell.

Exactly. what we have in MWO are effectively Dumbfire SRMs that are missing the damage boost.

[Scout Derek]

I suggested this years ago. And it probably will still never be implemented as PGI likes to take the easy way out on balance, and at that the worst way too.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

No need, but PGI will.

Nah if PGI truly stuck to canon only certain factions would have various items available to them.

[Wil McCullough]

There should be tools on the battlefield that pilots can use to mitigate laser pinpoint damage if employed properly. Tools like better torso twisting agility.

Reflective armor is a mechlab solution. It's the laser version of ams to missiles. That is bad. It makes it a no-skill hard counter.

Not to mention it's not available for omnimechs, which will shaft a lot of clan mechs PLUS it'll.also destroy is laser boats.

[TWIAFU]

DrtyDshSoap, on 10 July 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

You'd be shocked at how many people stare into the sun as a hobby.

Or are to dumb to know better?

[frumpylumps]

I disagree with this idea.

The counter to lasers is to twist, and that is in the lore as well. I don't like the idea of passive counters to skillful aiming.

Modules that protect against indirect fine are more acceptable because, for one, missiles have greater usability and act as a force multiplier,and secondly because without it, the mechanic would be unacceptable and lame for too many typical FPS players because they require significantly less skill to be effective than with direct fire, aimed weapons.


It seems imbalanced that, in general, you can't disable clan mechs as effectively as you can IS mechs. You can blow the main armament off a clan mech, but they will usually still have lasers left on other parts of the mechs that will be able to do significant damage to you.

Clan lasers needed a nerf and i'm glad PGI has the balls to do it.

Edited by frumpylumps, 10 July 2018 - 05:26 PM.

[Apache1990]

Nightbird, on 10 July 2018 - 06:35 AM, said:

3080 tech, not available in 3062

http://www.sarna.net...eflective_Armor

Technically the Exterminator had anti-laser ablative armor in the fluff (on top of nullsig and the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield [cloaking device]) back in 2630.

From the 3050 revised edition TRO: "The Exterminator's Fibrolyte Armorscale was improved with anti-laser ablatives added to the first four layers, giving the 'Mech an intense silver sheen when not screened. This armor must be kept clean to ensure that the reflective laser defense works efficiently."


In before Exterminator is added with chassis exclusive reflective armor, .

[EPJ]

we need something like this, and maybe another armor choice that is good vs ballistic weapons. make it so you can have ether Endo steel, reflective armor, or ballistic resistant armor. so a few more tons for weapons/armor or forgo the endo for armor thats good vs one weapon type.

Edited by EPJ, 04 April 2022 - 08:56 AM.