91 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

Remover of Obstacles, on 14 July 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

5.25 might be fine for assault mechs that can mount lots of other weapons, but the mediums and lights have no reason to use ERML any more.

Not worth it. Not a good move for the game. Kills off a lot of clan mechs.

Going to see more Piranhas and Mist Lynx.

Medium and lights should resort to heavy medium and heavy large lasers or even who knows? small pulse or er small. Anyway clan lights used to be overpowered with the old lasers. like that arctic cheetah with 6 cerml 42 hitscan alpha at 450m with jumpjets. Come on its just silly. It is crazy OP. Try doing the same with sphere lights and see how it works for yourself?
Sphere gets like 30 damage at 300meters instead lolz.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 14 July 2018 - 10:58 PM.

[Rusharn]

If these changes go through I doubt anyone would want to trade out the cERmeds for the IS ones. As it stands most of my IS mech's use the IS ERmeds and I prefer them. They have good range, fast cycle times, and run cool making them usable both in the mid range game and the brawl. As for the Arctic Cheetah I rarely saw anyone run the 6 cERml because it was just too hot, especially on the hot maps. The most common build was the clan small pulse laser before it was nerfed into a shadow of it's former self. I rarely see arctic Cheetah's running lasers any more, most choosing to run with machine guns instead.

Edit: correcting grammer

Edited by Rusharn, 15 July 2018 - 08:17 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Grus, on 14 July 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

range advantage means nothing if the thin your shooting at can close the distance..

Extra range is also useless if that damage cannot be applied accurately. With the long burn times, you get the fulcrum effect.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

5.25 damage is not fine and might as well just be 5 if PGI is going to go this route. The .25 has no value but to serve as a token so PGI Chris can say clan meds do more damage than IS. If PGI wants the damage values to basically match, all of the other stats on the ERMeds need to basically match, CD, duration and heat.

cERMed is dead if this goes through, it is absolutely not okay. I think we were all ready to accept a 6 damage cERMed with a duration and heat cut to make for the same damage per tick and heat per tick. THIS, what we got instead, is insane.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 July 2018 - 07:00 AM.

[Orville Righteous]

cERMed isn't dead. I thought that too and replaced them on my PTS builds, but I found myself adding them back in after playing a few matches. The range and weight is just too hard to pass up. cERMeds will still have their place. They're not as powerful as before, but they're still useful.

[RelativeQuanta]

lazorbeamz, on 14 July 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

Medium and lights should resort to heavy medium and heavy large lasers or even who knows? small pulse or er small. Anyway clan lights used to be overpowered with the old lasers. like that arctic cheetah with 6 cerml 42 hitscan alpha at 450m with jumpjets. Come on its just silly. It is crazy OP. Try doing the same with sphere lights and see how it works for yourself?
Sphere gets like 30 damage at 300meters instead lolz.

No offense, but the fact that clan lights used to be OP is no reason to nerf them to the point of being underpowered now.

This might seem fair if you lived through a time where you were on the disadvantaged faction, but when it comes to balancing multiplayer games that kind of ***-for-tat makes no sense. The people playing the game don't control the rules and many of the people playing now took no part in the unbalanced time of the game. They shouldn't be punished.

[Grus]

How about this... Clan lasers no longer have any falloff.. just a max range, and deal full damage at that max range. That way there is a difference between clan and IS flashlight tech.. <-- #sarcasm..

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Orville Righteous, on 15 July 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

cERMed isn't dead. I thought that too and replaced them on my PTS builds, but I found myself adding them back in after playing a few matches. The range and weight is just too hard to pass up. cERMeds will still have their place. They're not as powerful as before, but they're still useful.

I used them as well and they are dead and they will not have a place at any competent level of play. Please don't excuse PGI for creating a useless weapon when they very well could have doled out a sensible nerf instead. The heat and duration for this level of damage is rediculous and marks the weapon as even worse than IS ERMeds.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 July 2018 - 07:06 AM.

[BoMbY]

No, 5.25 makes it totally unbalanced, and renders it mostly useless. 6 to 6.25 would be much more in line with all the other changes.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

BoMbY, on 15 July 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

No, 5.25 makes it totally unbalanced, and renders it mostly useless. 6 to 6.25 would be much more in line with all the other changes.

They also need a duration reduction so the burn-DPS is the same as the pre-PTS cERMeds.

[BoMbY]

Yes, of course I mean 6 to 6.25 and keep the other changes (Heat reduced to 5.7 (from 6.3); Cooldown reduced to 4 (from 4.5)), with 5.25 at least I'm not going to use them anymore.

[Nightbird]

BoMbY, on 15 July 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

No, 5.25 makes it totally unbalanced, and renders it mostly useless. 6 to 6.25 would be much more in line with all the other changes.

Unbalanced with 5 damage ERML? That is the only measuring stick. I'd be OK with 6 only if DPS is lowered by 20% versus ERML.

IS ERML*

[Hal Greaves]

lazorbeamz, on 14 July 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

Medium and lights should resort to heavy medium and heavy large lasers or even who knows? small pulse or er small. Anyway clan lights used to be overpowered with the old lasers. like that arctic cheetah with 6 cerml 42 hitscan alpha at 450m with jumpjets. Come on its just silly. It is crazy OP. Try doing the same with sphere lights and see how it works for yourself?
Sphere gets like 30 damage at 300meters instead lolz.

literally nobody runs that build because its far beyond too hot to effectively utilize

stop playing spreadsheet warrior to justify your lack of understanding of why these changes are garbage. The very fact that you bring this mech up says everything we all need to know: You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Edited by Hal Greaves, 15 July 2018 - 11:09 AM.

[Vorpal Puppy]

Agree with others - C-ERML has been nerfed way too far. Renders clan lights and mediums that only have slots and tonnage for lasers useless. If this goes through your are.only going to see.ERLL boats and PIR-1 and MLX-G lights on the clan side. That's not going to sell a lot of new mechs, PGI.

[Daurock]

My opinion on the C-ERML is Rather Mixed right now. I think that on Live, it is indeed Way too strong. I think that the mechs that are boating them on the PTS need a little help.

Essentially, clan ERMLs on the patch seem like they the same heat as IS ERMLs. The extra heat is basically negated by the extra sinks right now, so they run about the same, heat wise. The clan one though, has other challenges on the patch that the IS one doesn't - Namely, duration, and the fact that the chassis that carry them are not as good as the usual IS suspects.

Further, I am coming to note that the clan ERML just seems lackluster to the cerLL now. being just as hot per damage, with shorter range. I think we need the cerML to be more significantly sustainable than the same build running with ERLLs.

Those two things lead me to believe the right path is for the cerML a simple heat gen reduction, with no additional changes to duration, or cooldown. Bringing the heat down on a per laser weapon to the same level as the IS ERML should make the clan Laser boats capable of better sustained fire, (due to the usual extra heatsinks carried) at the cost of duration when compared to IS mechs.
It also helps Separate the Clan Medium and large class lasers in the heavy and assault mechs, since the clan medium lasers would actually have a firepower advantage once they get into range when facing off with a mech running larges. Right now, the heavy and assault chassis are usually slot-locked, meaning that even if an assault mech wanted to carry mediums with more sinks, instead of larges, he really cant. Couple that with the fact that the CERLL is an incredibly efficient Damage/SLOT weapon, and you find it extremely valuable in the bigger chassis. It's partly why ceRLL spam is going to become an even bigger thing if the changes go through as planned.

Honestly, the same heat change can probably be applied to the clan Heavy Large. Right now, it also doesn't have the range to justify it's terrible Heat/Damage ratio, and just falls flat compared to both the erMLs, and ERLLs. Dropping the heat from 16 to 13, maybe 14 would probably be all that is needed there.

Edited by Daurock, 15 July 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[process]

Admittedly I've been experimenting more with large laser ghost heat limits, but I'm finding it sort of refreshing to be able to fire ERMLs more often with the lower heat and lower cooldown.

I think I'd be happier with a general shift towards DPS and away from poking. I would lower ERML duration to 1.15 seconds, and possibly increase cooldown to maintain the same net cooldown in the PTS.

[Y E O N N E]

process, on 15 July 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Admittedly I've been experimenting more with large laser ghost heat limits, but I'm finding it sort of refreshing to be able to fire ERMLs more often with the lower heat and lower cooldown.

I think I'd be happier with a general shift towards DPS and away from poking. I would lower ERML duration to 1.15 seconds, and possibly increase cooldown to maintain the same net cooldown in the PTS.

The meta is already biased in favor of DPS on the live client, though. Fast and/or durable assaults and heavies with high-sustained firepower are running over poke 'Mechs in QP and even in FP.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nightbird, on 15 July 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

Unbalanced with 5 damage ERML? That is the only measuring stick. I'd be OK with 6 only if DPS is lowered by 20% versus ERML.

IS ERML*

No, DPS unchanged.

[Nightbird]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 July 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

No, DPS unchanged.

Same DPS and 20% higher damage is not happening.

[process]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

The meta is already biased in favor of DPS on the live client, though. Fast and/or durable assaults and heavies with high-sustained firepower are running over poke 'Mechs in QP and even in FP.

Biased in favor for Clans? My feeling is Clans suffer greatly when they can't maintain range, yet don't have a good variety of weapons to deal with short range. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the PTS changes made if it means more viable options.