91 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

They should reduce heat more. To make it more ideal for lights and mediums. A touch of duration reduction would also make it less unwieldy. Which is important for lights and mediums.

[Rusharn]

I like how you think.

[BigScwerl]

Yeah, lets just make everything the same across the board. I mean realistically, who actually wants choices? Lets just make one mech and 1 weapon that only does 5 damage, then everything will be balanced.

[Rusharn]

I am up for returning the ERmed las back to it's original value. That is my preference. But it looks like the PGI balance squad has a surplus of nerf bats and they need to use everyone of them.

[Nightbird]

Rusharn, on 16 July 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

I am up for returning the ERmed las back to it's original value. That is my preference. But it looks like the PGI balance squad has a surplus of nerf bats and they need to use everyone of them.

PGI is refusing to touch cooldown/DPS for whatever reason. Make C-ERML have lower DPS by 20-30% and having 40% more damage becomes fine and balanced.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nightbird, on 16 July 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

PGI is refusing to touch cooldown/DPS for whatever reason. Make C-ERML have lower DPS by 20-30% and having 40% more damage becomes fine and balanced.

cERMeds do not need 20% less DPS than the IS equivalent. Don't know why you want them to.

[Naluca]

It was weird that I could take out Death strikes with my King Crab. Was that supposed to happen?

[Y E O N N E]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 16 July 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

cERMeds do not need 20% less DPS than the IS equivalent. Don't know why you want them to.

Because IS alphas have roughly 20% less damage behind them, probably.

I will say that, on the live client, IS ER Medium lasers deal 1.02 DPS to the 1.22 on the cERML. Is it a huge deal? No, not on its own since it's just 2 tenths of a point, but it does represent a problem if IS laser vomit is supposed to be smaller and faster while Clan vomit is bigger and slower. The TL;DR is that the slow-*** IS ERML can't keep up with the bigger lasers it will be bundled with,so you don't really get to take advantage of the shorter intervals between volleys. Everybody is back in cover.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 16 July 2018 - 08:09 PM.

[Nightbird]

BigScwerl, on 16 July 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

Yeah, lets just make everything the same across the board. I mean realistically, who actually wants choices? Lets just make one mech and 1 weapon that only does 5 damage, then everything will be balanced.

I would prefer this, hence all the typing here:

https://mwomercs.com...-server-chance/

But PGI prefers to HOMOGENIZE EVERYTHINGZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no I am not frustrated at all...

[Nightbird]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 July 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

Because IS alphas have roughly 20% less damage behind them, probably.

Minor correction, 28.6% or closer to 30%.

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 July 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

Because IS alphas have roughly 20% less damage behind them, probably.

I will say that, on the live client, IS ER Medium lasers deal 1.02 DPS to the 1.22 on the cERML. Is it a huge deal? No, not on its own since it's just 2 tenths of a point, but it does represent a problem if IS laser vomit is supposed to be smaller and faster while Clan vomit is bigger and slower. The TL;DR is that the slow-*** IS ERML can't keep up with the bigger lasers it will be bundled with,so you don't really get to take advantage of the shorter intervals between volleys. Everybody is back in cover.

You can take advantage by (and i know im stating the obvious) pressing the W key...

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 16 July 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

You can take advantage by (and i know im stating the obvious) pressing the W key...

Not from 400 meters with lasers you can't. Ballistics, sure.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Matching their DPS would suffice, making the cERMed have less DPS by 20% is unnecessary. The fact that a quick turn around makes pairing said mediums with other weapons difficult is of little consequence, that's the price of syncing different weapon systems together; making two different weapon systems harmonize should have some kind of skill curve.

IS ERMeds with a boosted recycle time could pair well with a UAC/10 for instance as it would work well with the cadence of shoot twist shoot. But you'd have to deal with the fact that at range the projectiles are going to desync from the beams.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 16 July 2018 - 09:32 PM.

[Grus]

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 July 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

Not from 400 meters with lasers you can't. Ballistics, sure.

im just saying this to be clear to the others that might read this...

why does a clan mech back up after it fires? because its hot... if you push the mech that is hot, and you're in a mech that runs cool, said hot mech will cook its self trying to brawl you in a IS laser vomit mech.. the whole point of a clan laser vomit is to poke, shoot (dont take return fire) and skoot back behind cover to cool down, rince and repeat.. if your in a IS mech and your moving at 70kph (lets say a heavy or fast assault) its too easy to just push into that mech and kill it. clan burn times make it so easy loltwist off damage then you get to fire TWICE before that clan guy can fire again... if more IS players just grew a spine they would see how heat inefficient clan laser vomit is..


(i know you know this crap, just airing for those who don't.)
/rant

[Nightbird]

Clan mechs run cooler than IS mechs. Hotter weapons are more than offset by a lot more HS.

Jack Shayu Walker, on 16 July 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:

Matching their DPS would suffice, making the cERMed have less DPS by 20% is unnecessary.

130% of damage and 100% of DPS isn't balance. PGI seems to have realized that finally.

[Grus]

-Spectre, on 16 July 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

What about the 5 mpl Wolfhounds? It shreds any Clan light it comes across, holds its own against Clan mediums, and is even formidable to Clan heavies. The fact is, alpha doesn't matter if it isn't repeatable, because the engagement inevitably closes range to where you can no longer duck behind cover to cool down after each alpha.

this...

Even if clans can boat 6 erml for 5 more TOTAL damage than 6 is mlas, they are those "superior" but if we can only fire those twice before cooking ourselves and IS can do 5 the IS mech will win... it's ********.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nightbird, on 17 July 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

Clan mechs run cooler than IS mechs. Hotter weapons are more than offset by a lot more HS.



130% of damage and 100% of DPS isn't balance. PGI seems to have realized that finally.

130% of damage and 100% of DPS can br balance. PGI never seems to realize anything. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Coincidentally you are also kidding yourself trying to simplify this equation down to only those two variables. That's dishonest argumentation and I have a hunch that you know that.

[Nightbird]

Grus, on 17 July 2018 - 05:20 AM, said:

this...

Even if clans can boat 6 erml for 5 more TOTAL damage than 6 is mlas, they are those "superior" but if we can only fire those twice before cooking ourselves and IS can do 5 the IS mech will win... it's ********.

Edit, misread, IS mechs have fewer DHS, those ERMLs are hot too. You can thank better endo and ferro.

Jack Shayu Walker, on 17 July 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

130% of damage and 100% of DPS can br balance. PGI never seems to realize anything. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Coincidentally you are also kidding yourself trying to simplify this equation down to only those two variables. That's dishonest argumentation and I have a hunch that you know that.

You should apply for a position at PGI's balance team.

Edited by Nightbird, 17 July 2018 - 07:06 AM.

[Daurock]

Honestly, I see the Clan Medium and small class lasers going down one of two ways from where we are at right now on the PTS.

Option 1- They drop the Burn time on the Clan lasers to the same level as the IS lasers. This creates a bit of a Cascade effect, where they Also drop the burn time on the Clan Pulse lasers to IS levels as well. Functionally, the IS and clan lasers would then be nearly identical (Yes, clan lasers would still put up higher heat on Paper, but couple that with the extra heatsinks, and it becomes a wash)

Option 2 - They Keep burn times where they are at, keeping clan lasers with an actual disadvantage when compared to IS lasers. Instead, they bring the heat down to roughly the same heat/damage ratio as found on IS lasers. The same Plan is applied to Pulse lasers. In practical terms, this creates Clan weaponry that runs cooler, (Again, due to extra heatsinks usually found) but has a burn time disadvantage.


I'm honestly not sure which of those two options would work out best (Though I'd personally probably prefer option 2), but they both sound like better balance than on live, where Clan lasers currently enjoy practical advantages in Alpha, Damage/Tic rates, And Sustainability, all at the same time when compared to IS tech.