2 replies to this topic

[Sereglach]

After playing enough matches of IS vs. Clan mechs of similar builds to get a feel for PTS changes, here is my overall general impression of it.

First off, I'm not a fan of gauss, and never have been. I'm not going to make much of a comment on it other than I saw competent players using them just as effectively as they do on live, so I'd call the recoil change a failure. Personally, I think if you can find a way to curb overall Alpha abuse (Energy Draw or something comparable) then you could scrap both recoil and charge mechanics. I'm in the camp that feels that the recoil and charge mechanics do more to harm casual players then they do to any experienced/competitive player.

The clan laser changes for Alphas are quite noticeable IF they're used on the same-old laser vomit builds. However, changing the ghost heat limits of LL varieties for clans just changed the majority of laser vomit builds around. Now they have only a slightly decreased alpha, only modestly higher heat, but far superior long range reach to what they had before. The alpha doesn't take as large of a hit as PGI probably intends because the medium lasers were hit far harder than the large lasers. I was running into many variations of the old laser vomit that was exchanging MLs to get in another LL; and plenty of the Gauss builds were just running 3xLL in tandem rather than a slew of MLs. Meanwhile, my old 2xLPL 4xERML builds certainly didn't feel as impactful.

However, getting a solid feel for how much this brings the overall Clan Alpha in line with the IS alpha is difficult to compare in a 4v4 setting with no tonnage matching. For example, my biggest comparisons were my HBR 4xCERML + 2xCLPL vs. my BLK 4xML + 2xLPL and my SCR 1xCERLL + 4xCMPL vs. my CRB 1xERLL + 4xMPL. I also ran a MDD 4xCERML + 2xATM12 and a HBKIIC 2xERLL 4xERML just to get a feel for some other builds and clan laser use.

While some of the changes might not be too bad (C-ERML is one of the biggest offenders of horrific power imbalance between IS and Clan and needs a severe nerf . . . especially in TT), some are certainly not needed without some level of compensation elsewhere. At the very least, there needs to be far more balance and clear faction characteristics between Range, HPS (Heat Per Second), and DPS (Damage Per Second) between IS and Clan weapons. Ensure that each side has one very clear and distinct edge over the other and the third factor is essentially even. That's the route that feels like it would be best, and could help achieve PGI's goals.

Given PGI's mentality so far, it seems as though clans should have superior Range while IS should have superior DPH, and then DPS can be equalized. DPS can easily be equalized by ensuring that a higher damage value is countered with enough cooldown to retain the same DPS; and it would still maintain factional characteristics. Clan can still have a higher Alpha, but IS would have better cooldowns and lower upfront heat as a result.

In addition, by making DPS the equal factor, then it ensures that no Alpha will get too big because, if the damage is too high, then the heat and cooldown become prohibitive, by fiat, to maintain equal DPS and appropriate HPS balance.

To explain, lets look at Clan vs. IS for the ERML at 1.0 DPS giving Clans a 10% range edge (about live number) and IS a 10% HPS edge:

Spoiler

- If the IS and Clan ERML are meant to do 1.2 DPS, but the Clan does 7 Damage, then it needs an overall cooldown (Duration + Cooldown) of ~5.8 to maintian that DPS. This could translate into 1.2 Duration and 4.6 Cooldown . . . not too far from live.

- Meanwhile the IS at 5 damage would need an overall cooldown of 4.2 for the same 1.2 DPS. This could translate into 1.0 Duration and 3.2 Cooldown . . . a significant buff from live.

- This alone means the IS counterpart, to maintian equal DPS, would already cycle over 25% faster with 20% less burn time. All to maintain the same DPS.

- If the Clan ERML does 1.0 HPS (10% buff from live), then it needs to generate 5.8 heat when firing. That translates into ~1.21 DPH (Damage Per Heat).

- The IS ERML would do .9 HPS (10% better than clan, about equal to live), which would be 3.78 heat per shot. That translates into ~1.32 DPH.

- Therefore, to maintain DPS parity, Clans with 10% edge in range and 40% edge in alpha damage, for the ERML, would allow the IS to fire 25% faster with 20% less burn time, about 9% better Damage Per Heat, and Clans would have 53% higher Alpha Heat. The larger the damage gap, the more drastic the DPH and Alpha Heat punishment, the lower the damage gap, the more managable the DPH and Alpha Heat.

Overall, I think those alternate numerical balancing paths combined with an all-encompassing "Alpha Control" mechanic (again, Energy Draw was a solid start) that makes Alpha-Vomit prohibitive, and encourages Alphas as an "Oh Crap" or "Last ditch effort" or "Opener" attack, would be a far better route for PGI to go. Also, find a way to get rid of weapon specific charging mechanics and recoil mechanics, as they hurt casual and inexperienced players more than they do experienced and competitive players.

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Personally, my opinion (and I know it's not popular) would be to bring much closer parity between IS and Clan. An ER is an ER and a Pulse is a Pulse, etc., in my opinion. Make the combat based stats as equal as reasonably possible and leave the clans with their advantage in tonnage and crit slots. After all, the PTS changes to the C-ERML are already most of the way there. Then, leave the clans with a bit more spread on missiles and ballistics and some duration changes only on clan lasers have have superior crits/tonnage vs IS counterparts. Lastly, give a 60% penalty on ST loss for IS XL, a 40% penalty on ST loss for Clan XL, a 20% penalty on ST loss for IS LFE (symbolic of reduced weight savings), and a 25% bonus CT structure bonus on all STD engines. No instant-death on ST Loss unless we get XXL engines in the game, as that's an instant ST death for anyone by TT rules.

Hell, even Randall Bills admitted that weapons have something like 7 attributes (tons, crits, damage, heat, ranges, minimum range, and ammo); and they could have changed only 2-3 while still making clans superior . . . instead they did all 7 and horribly broke any semblance of gameplay balance. At the same time Jordan Weisman admitted that the better and easier answered question rather than, "What he'd change of Battletech if he could redo it?" was instead "What he wouldn't change of Battletech if he could redo it?".

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P.S. Chris Lowrey, really?! We're supposed to be testing and experimenting with Clan High Alpha and comparing its performance to similar IS counterparts . . . and you drop in match with a MG Viper build? Really? I was expecting you to be running the live version 94pt clan Mega-Alpha build or some IS comparable counterpart. Sorry, but I have to give you some flak for that. Oh, and get Flamers fixed, please. You know what I would like to see, there . . . please bring them out of the scrap heap and ditch all the ramping "pseudo-cooldown" and exponential acceleration mechanics.

[BrunoSSace]

My thoughts on the changes.
Clan er smalls have too long of a burn time and are not fun to use.

Clan Er mediums need a small damage increase. Increase them to 5.5 damage.

The current Clan Er lage lasers with a ghost heat of 3 is a buff.

Clan Gauss Charge is silly.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Here goes mine.

Overall I like changes. I've disliked the alpha poking meta because it leaves little room for other ways like nice sustained lasers such as med pulse.

I doubt I will be able to perfectly adjust to this gauss shake. I have a mech I've played nearly 2k battles, which with I charge the gauss, and when I release it I fire off the ERL too. It would be really difficult to learn to fire lasers first then gauss, specially because it's meant for longer range where you need to lead the gauss quite a more than Death Strike with it's ERM. But it's okay, at least it now feels more badass to shoot and the shake isn't so long.

I'm little doubful why Clan ER-S was changed. It's a rarely used weapon and for a good reason, it's weak and low
range. Because of the range it will never be an alternative to ER-M.

And the ERL and large pulse ghost heat limit increase. Not sure what's that idea, to make it easier for people to accept these other changes? I don't think people will start using them much still, long range fighting is difficult outside of FP where everyone can see the map and choose same kind of loadouts. But I don't see much negative coming from that change, so it's okay, it will give chance to try new builds.