78 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

It is actually an srm patch

[HammerMaster]

How is this better? What does it entail?
I'm simply saying if you are by hook/crook/skill/magic a guy with 5.0 psr vs my 1.0(I'm not magic but I'm not hindering any team)
We shouldn't be playing in the same pool.
Nor should I be hanging with the guys with waterwings. Too many concurrent problems. You can decry spread fire all day. This has to be worked out too.

Edited by HammerMaster, 17 July 2018 - 12:23 PM.

[Spheroid]

320 matchscore for 5 damage ain't bad.

[Phoenix 72]

Nice AMS score. What Mech did you use? Highest AMS score I ever reached was a bit over 1600 in a Nova...

[MischiefSC]

HammerMaster, on 17 July 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

How is this better? What does it entail?
I'm simply saying if you are by hook/crook/skill/magic a guy with 5.0 psr vs my 1.0(I'm not magic but I'm not hindering any team)
We shouldn't be playing in the same pool.
Nor should I be hanging with the guys with waterwings. Too many concurrent problems. You can decry spread fire all day. This has to be worked out too.

So the lower the skill requirements the fewer things players can do to differentiate themselves. That means that while in practice skill may be widely differentiated in performance there's so much RNG noise it makes it harder to identify. The more skill involved the easier it is to identify skill performance and thus the easier it is to accurately place players on a ranking.

[Anastasius Foht]

It takes some time before main wave of "wannabe" lurmers return to their usual mechs, only 2-3 Solaris City in a row and done.

[kutkip]

Darakor Stormwind, on 17 July 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Nice AMS score. What Mech did you use? Highest AMS score I ever reached was a bit over 1600 in a Nova...

It was on the Prianha, maybe you recognise the cockpit in the background. Please try to keep the discussion focussed about the AMS and LRM buff. I think they should make the AMS even a little stronger to convince people to use it.

[HammerMaster]

Did you ever use the bloom reticule? It's not overtly RNG. If you do as we do now (non stop 100% throttle, snap and blast) it is. If you SKILLFULLY MANAGE the bloom reticle by slowing down, holding reticule on target. Taking the good shot. It IS skill. Just not what you have been spoon fed in MWO. Man back In my Rainbow Six /Operation Flashpoint days, there was bloom reticule and we managed it.

[Weeny Machine]

kutkip, on 17 July 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

With the ammo and velocity buffs from the latest patches added it might get a little crazy. The point is that a good brawl is much more fun than raining missiles. It creates a playstyle where everyone is scared to come out of cover.

And exactly that's the problem. A good game has a variety of gamestyles. MWO is still promoting a static peek-a-boo style. Brawling will be really dead because you will be lurmed to kingdom come or have to run off as soon as you close to someone.

Anastasius Foht, on 17 July 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

It takes some time before main wave of "wannabe" lurmers return to their usual mechs, only 2-3 Solaris City in a row and done.

They keep their votes to avoid Solaris or get Polar. Doesn't work so well

Edited by Bush Hopper, 17 July 2018 - 12:51 PM.

[MischiefSC]

HammerMaster, on 17 July 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

Did you ever use the bloom reticule? It's not overtly RNG. If you do as we do now (non stop 100% throttle, snap and blast) it is. If you SKILLFULLY MANAGE the bloom reticle by slowing down, holding reticule on target. Taking the good shot. It IS skill. Just not what you have been spoon fed in MWO. Man back In my Rainbow Six /Operation Flashpoint days, there was bloom reticule and we managed it.

I did - it required a lot of face time and/or luck. The ability to poke, shoot fade requires a lot of skill to do well. People keep saying lasers/gauss are low skill but putting and keeping on target just as long as you need consistently has a very high skill ceiling. Orders of magnitude over convergence. Convergence means everyone has to wait to line up a shot. It forces better players to play like bad players instead of shooting when you're in position and fading, which is functionally winning trades. It reduces individual player skill options and as such just falls back to focus fire.

Getting on target quickly and putting your shots where they need to go has a higher skill ceiling. That's the point.

[HammerMaster]

There is still skill because EVERYONE is using the same reticule. You should not expect perfect burns while 100% throttle. There is no Bob. No recoil. That's the no skill part.

[MischiefSC]

HammerMaster, on 17 July 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

There is still skill because EVERYONE is using the same reticule. You should not expect perfect burns while 100% throttle. There is no Bob. No recoil. That's the no skill part.

There is bob, terrain makes a big difference, any movement shifts the reticle. That's why good players beat bad players; they are more accurate, they've learned to aim through that or account for it. That's part of positioning and knowing the terrain you're shooting from and over and through.

If you added recoil all that would happen is good players would adapt and all the bad/mediocre players would be functionally worse. You're asking for changes that would dramatically hurt everyone *except* the top tier players. Convergence was a fake limitation - no 'skill' to it, just saying you had to stay aiming for X timeframe before shooting so it tried to wash out people who were better at aiming. Add skill stuff like recoil and you're just nerfing bad players.

The best players in this game are the best for a reason. That reason is skill. It's not haxx, it's not exploits, it's just a lot of practice and effort and attention. That's what you want - to reward practice, effort, attention and the intentional pursuit and refinement of the skills that win matches. The more complex you make that (to a point before it stops being fun) the wider the skill gap.

[HammerMaster]

In that skill should be rewarded. I agree. I don't know where you think I said otherwise. I'm just saying that auto pinpoint inflates MANY peoples PERCEPTION that they are skilled because of it. That is why they say they'll riot if it's addressed. The bloom reticule (as you said) will not harm good players and cause non skilled players to adapt. End of story.
BRING BLOOM RETICULE BACK!

[GoatHILL]

[Kubernetes]

HammerMaster, on 17 July 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm just saying that auto pinpoint inflates MANY peoples PERCEPTION that they are skilled because of it.

How does it create a perception of skill when holding a beam on a component of a moving target by definition requires skill? Or shooting a projectile at a moving target? For all the talk about how easy it is, it sure is strange that a very small number of players can actually do it well. Here's a challenge: just stick to direct-fire for a month and show us how little skill it requires. Show us your meteoric rise to the top of the leader boards only using lasers or gauss.

[Quxudica]

kutkip, on 17 July 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

With the ammo and velocity buffs from the latest patches added it might get a little crazy. The point is that a good brawl is much more fun than raining missiles. It creates a playstyle where everyone is scared to come out of cover.

More that it exacerbates MWO's already prevelent issue with huge alpha strikes that make people not want to come out of cover. Now not only are people going to be timid because peaking out for half a second can result in a 50~ point burst, but because a rain of free, unavoidable damage will fall from the sky if they stray out from under that rock they were already hiding behind.

[thievingmagpi]

Quxudica, on 17 July 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

More that it exacerbates MWO's already prevelent issue with huge alpha strikes that make people not want to come out of cover. Now not only are people going to be timid because peaking out for half a second can result in a 50~ point burst, but because a rain of free, unavoidable damage will fall from the sky if they stray out from under that rock they were already hiding behind.

...and, unlike a 50 point alpha that you need to actually be seen to take damage from, any number of click warriors can freely drop damage on you.

[HammerMaster]

The only thing meteoric is the descent of this thread like every other LRM thread.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Suppressing mechs with lrms isn't exactly newb play style and with all the terrain and ways to protect yourself from lrms, mechs need to in the open, which is their fault, or within short lrm range where they can't avoid it. LRMS aren't as newb a weapon as people like to portray it.

[Shinskii]

I picked the wrong day to ATM poptart in my Pahket with all the panic over LRMs.