25 replies to this topic

[IVeoRR]

Yes, the timing of this thread is purely coincidental amongst all the lurm hate threads, but I don't post that often so whatever.

I have been on the hater side of the spectrum since starting this game way back when. I even admit to unleashing vitriol after getting melted by the damn things...even though 9 out of 10 times it was my own damn fault. I'm an aggressive player and often used to overextend and recklessly pursue. I often saved that ton and a half or 2 tons of AMS space for more ammo, speed, armor or cooling. I used to run full radar dep. back with the old skill tree and that was it. Now I only run 40-60% based on my mech. Sometimes I was in an ECM mech, sometimes I hugged cover, fought in formation and other tactical counters. 1 out of 10 times, a guy gets narced on Polar and there ain't a f*ck*in thing you can do at that point, or every now and then the enemy uses TEAMWORK with a spotter and you get caught far enough from cover that your legs get melted from running to that cover. Point is: I have always hated LRM's...

Up until ATM's came out. There was a learning curve I have had to adjust to, but damage potential was too enticing to pass up and have had some of my best games in my stock omnipod dual ATM 12, 3 medium pulse Espirit de Corps, twin ATM 12, quad medium pulse Cobra Cat, trip ATM 9, dual heavy medium laser, twin MG Orion IIC, my Warrant, my Vultures etc.

ATM's force a player to be engaged as I'm always trying to stay in the x3 sweet spot. Yeah I sometimes get pushed and get overwhelmed. Yeah I still f*ck up and get caught out of position, but man they completely changed the game for me and made me a better player.

Enter LRM's. I have 130 mechs in my stable. A solid mix of clan and IS, but if you were to look at all of them, even the chassis that are usually dedicated LRM boats, you won't find any that are boating them. Recently I picked up the Archer hero at the hero sale and of course I originally had the dual MRM 30 and quad medium laser build. That's until I decided that, why can't I run this like a clan mech only with 6 ER smalls and twin LRM 20's 200 meters out in the thick of it!?
...and boy, have I started having fun with LRM's. Since then I have morphed the build several times looking for that perfect for me build and right now it's twin LRM 15's + Artemis and 6 mediums.

I know that many of you are facepalming right now, like duh dude, lol, but I just had to share.

P.S. I will still and always call out the dipsh*ts hiding in the back! That's half the point of this post...don't be a little b*tch and hide in the back. Engage with your teammates and share armor.

[Grus]

oh god... i almost....

[JediPanther]

lrm 15s and mls work well when you play aggressive. My two missile catapults run the 15s and mls. Atms don't really teach you much. IS lrm have their 180m minimal range so at 179m and under you can see them just bounce off enemy mechs. Add in all the counters and you find it's better to be at 181m-300m with them. It's good to see another lrm user though.

[Requiemking]

JediPanther, on 16 July 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

lrm 15s and mls work well when you play aggressive. My two missile catapults run the 15s and mls. Atms don't really teach you much. IS lrm have their 180m minimal range so at 179m and under you can see them just bounce off enemy mechs. Add in all the counters and you find it's better to be at 181m-300m with them. It's good to see another lrm user though.

I see your Catapult and raise you an Adder A.

[AzureRathalos]

There's never a problem with aggressive LURMing.

The problems lie with cowardly LURMing and, of course, the overwhelming majority of LRM users that do it.

[Vellron2005]

IVeoRR, on 16 July 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Enter LRM's. I have 130 mechs in my stable. A solid mix of clan and IS, but if you were to look at all of them, even the chassis that are usually dedicated LRM boats, you won't find any that are boating them. Recently I picked up the Archer hero at the hero sale and of course I originally had the dual MRM 30 and quad medium laser build. That's until I decided that, why can't I run this like a clan mech only with 6 ER smalls and twin LRM 20's 200 meters out in the thick of it!?
...and boy, have I started having fun with LRM's.

Welcome to the dark side

IVeoRR, on 16 July 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Since then I have morphed the build several times looking for that perfect for me build and right now it's twin LRM 15's + Artemis and 6 mediums.

Great build for an Archer.. still not dedicated Lurmer, but a mixed Lurmer, but great build.. Suggest trying a Supernova, Warhawk or MadCat II.. LRM70+4ERmed - decimates.

IVeoRR, on 16 July 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

P.S. I will still and always call out the dipsh*ts hiding in the back! That's half the point of this post...don't be a little b*tch and hide in the back. Engage with your teammates and share armor.

If mixed lurmer, sure.. if dedicated lurmer.. hell no.. cose' you got nothing to bring to defend yourself if you're dedicated.. only when out of ammo do you use armor..

You will learn young apprentice..

Good luck in your future Lurming endeavors...

[Dogstar]

Grus, on 16 July 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

oh god... i almost....

almost... said something nice for a change?

Edited by Dogstar, 16 July 2018 - 11:58 PM.

[Anastasius Foht]

IVeoRR, on 16 July 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Yes, the timing of this thread is purely coincidental amongst all the lurm hate threads, but I don't post that often so whatever.
Enter LRM's. I have 130 mechs in my stable. A solid mix of clan and IS, but if you were to look at all of them, even the chassis that are usually dedicated LRM boats, you won't find any that are boating them. Recently I picked up the Archer hero at the hero sale and of course I originally had the dual MRM 30 and quad medium laser build. That's until I decided that, why can't I run this like a clan mech only with 6 ER smalls and twin LRM 20's 200 meters out in the thick of it!?
...and boy, have I started having fun with LRM's. Since then I have morphed the build several times looking for that perfect for me build and right now it's twin LRM 15's + Artemis and 6 mediums.

I know that many of you are facepalming right now, like duh dude, lol, but I just had to share.

P.S. I will still and always call out the dipsh*ts hiding in the back! That's half the point of this post...don't be a little b*tch and hide in the back. Engage with your teammates and share armor.

Actually i lvl-up my Archer before this all "LurmHate" with same exact loadout, aLRMS-30 and 6ERsLas, and played it like brawler all the time, rly enjoyed. Changed later to 4 MedPulses instead though. Don't mind Lurm haters, they jump on any bandwagon just for lulz.

[Daggett]

Vellron2005, on 16 July 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

If mixed lurmer, sure.. if dedicated lurmer.. hell no.. cose' you got nothing to bring to defend yourself if you're dedicated.. only when out of ammo do you use armor..

Maybe i misunderstood you but i'd say being at the front is still the best place to be especially without much backup weapons since lights prefer defenseless targets in the back-row. If i see two lurmers sitting behind their team i first backstab the one who does not have 6 ML to retaliate.

But i guess that's also a matter of playstyle. When i get an itch for lurms i only run mechs faster than 80kph to be able to attack from unexpected angles. So for me assaults are too slow to really bring their LRM80 on target well enough. Or with other words: I do more damage with an LRM50 Mad Dog than with an LRM80 Supernova.

This way i'm of cause much safer at the front because i can reposition quickly if the enemy applies too much pressure. So i can understand why you don't want to be at the front in a slow assault without significant direct fire weapons. If your team retreats you would be dead (however that's probably true for any weapon loadout, hello nascar victims!). But on the other hand maybe your assault armor makes the difference if your front can hold against a push or even better an incentive for your other assaults to push by themselves?

[Savage Wolf]

Then I can recommend the ultimate hybrid: Supernova A with AtM24 and LRM40 and 4xHML. Can fire LRMs when the enemy is at range or behind cover, can switch to ATMs when the enemy is in the x3 sweet spot and use lasers when the enemy is hugging you. And often you can use two weapon systems at the same time.

[Vellron2005]

Daggett, on 17 July 2018 - 01:13 AM, said:

Maybe i misunderstood you but i'd say being at the front is still the best place to be especially without much backup weapons since lights prefer defenseless targets in the back-row. If i see two lurmers sitting behind their team i first backstab the one who does not have 6 ML to retaliate.

But i guess that's also a matter of playstyle. When i get an itch for lurms i only run mechs faster than 80kph to be able to attack from unexpected angles. So for me assaults are too slow to really bring their LRM80 on target well enough. Or with other words: I do more damage with an LRM50 Mad Dog than with an LRM80 Supernova.

This way i'm of cause much safer at the front because i can reposition quickly if the enemy applies too much pressure. So i can understand why you don't want to be at the front in a slow assault without significant direct fire weapons. If your team retreats you would be dead (however that's probably true for any weapon loadout, hello nascar victims!). But on the other hand maybe your assault armor makes the difference if your front can hold against a push or even better an incentive for your other assaults to push by themselves?

As you said, it's a matter of playstyle..

When you play a relatively slow LRM assault, your best position is not way back and alone.. it is in the middle.. with brawlers in front of you and other support mechs or transitioning mechs behind you, or at the least, close to the main group, so that when a light does rush you, multiple teammates will naturally attack it as a visible, viable target.

But for slow assaults, it's hard to keep pace.. so its good sometimes to find a spot a long way away from the fray, and be effective artillery, but this is a risk, cose' if you get rushed you are dead.

One of the best places where you can take this risk and be ok most of the time is on Mining Colony. While most people are fighting over the central platform, you position yourself on the downramp by the two big chimneys, and you can hit most anything, from deep cover. And if you get rushed, you are most likely to get rushed by a single light, since it's difficult to circumvent your whole team on that map..

So its different positioning on different maps.

But as a LRM boat you do not want to be front line. Why? Because you cannot deliver high amounts of defensive firepower, nor trade favorably, and you are blocking other mechs that can. So the proper place to be is behind frontline mechs where two mechs, it from the front line and you firing over him with LRM, can deliver two mechs worth of firepower to a single target.

So instead of the UAC boat behind you screaming at you to move your fat rear torso and give him a firing line, you both shoot.

OR, you can use deep cover, and while the team is pushing and advancing, you can, without taking fire yourself, keep the enemies heads down with suppressive fire.

Edited by Vellron2005, 17 July 2018 - 02:20 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Savage Wolf, on 17 July 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

Then I can recommend the ultimate hybrid: Supernova A with AtM24 and LRM40 and 4xHML. Can fire LRMs when the enemy is at range or behind cover, can switch to ATMs when the enemy is in the x3 sweet spot and use lasers when the enemy is hugging you. And often you can use two weapon systems at the same time.

This is a great combo, indeed.. but, I personally, find that I have a "LRM mentality" - meaning if I'm using LRM, I'm gonna play like LRM with support weapons only..

LRM works in direct LOS too, so it's good on all ranges, no ATMs needed..

Its like with gauss.. I focus on holding the charge, and then I forget to fire lasers...

But sure, if one can manage that "transitional" playstyle, go ahead.. Its probably just as good as LRM+Lasers playstyle..

[Grus]

Dogstar, on 16 July 2018 - 11:55 PM, said:

almost... said something nice for a change?

You are in CCT right?


I refuse to give anyone oral service unless they've earned it... all lrmers must die....

Edited by Grus, 17 July 2018 - 06:30 AM.

[Daggett]

Vellron2005, on 17 July 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

So instead of the UAC boat behind you screaming at you to move your fat rear torso and give him a firing line, you both shoot.

That's true, of cause it makes no sense to block others when you can shoot above them.
On the other hand i have a deep aversion against choke-point frontlines where only 2-3 mechs can shoot from and i would probably pick another angle anyway if possible.

In my opinion the best front is the one where my team can have more mechs focusing a target than the enemy can.

Edited by Daggett, 17 July 2018 - 07:16 AM.

[Mystere]

AzureRathalos, on 16 July 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

There's never a problem with aggressive LURMing.

The problems lie with cowardly LURMing and, of course, the overwhelming majority of LRM users that do it.

You speak as if only the LURMers are cowards while the peek-and-pokers are not. <shrugs>

[Daurock]

AzureRathalos, on 16 July 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

There's never a problem with aggressive LURMing.

The problems lie with cowardly LURMing and, of course, the overwhelming majority of LRM users that do it.

This.
If they're going to continue to buff LRMs, I'd greatly prefer that they find ways to improve LRMs when you actually have line of sight with the target. (Possibilities would include, but not be restricted to - Line-of-sight improving tracking and locks more than now, and/or Tag making targeting near-instant) It would make more sense than just throwing more ammo and cooling into the weapons.)

Edited by Daurock, 17 July 2018 - 07:12 AM.

[Novakaine]

Vellron2005, on 17 July 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

As you said, it's a matter of playstyle..

When you play a relatively slow LRM assault, your best position is not way back and alone.. it is in the middle.. with brawlers in front of you and other support mechs or transitioning mechs behind you, or at the least, close to the main group, so that when a light does rush you, multiple teammates will naturally attack it as a visible, viable target.

But for slow assaults, it's hard to keep pace.. so its good sometimes to find a spot a long way away from the fray, and be effective artillery, but this is a risk, cose' if you get rushed you are dead.

One of the best places where you can take this risk and be ok most of the time is on Mining Colony. While most people are fighting over the central platform, you position yourself on the downramp by the two big chimneys, and you can hit most anything, from deep cover. And if you get rushed, you are most likely to get rushed by a single light, since it's difficult to circumvent your whole team on that map..

So its different positioning on different maps.

But as a LRM boat you do not want to be front line. Why? Because you cannot deliver high amounts of defensive firepower, nor trade favorably, and you are blocking other mechs that can. So the proper place to be is behind frontline mechs where two mechs, it from the front line and you firing over him with LRM, can deliver two mechs worth of firepower to a single target.

So instead of the UAC boat behind you screaming at you to move your fat rear torso and give him a firing line, you both shoot.

OR, you can use deep cover, and while the team is pushing and advancing, you can, without taking fire yourself, keep the enemies heads down with suppressive fire.

I disagree with you there bro-mech.
Lurming from the front lines is where you want to be.
Most people don't see you as a real threat until it's too late.
Had a match last night I did my usual dumb thing and led a charge.
In my Archer 2R and busted a 1000+ and got 6 kills.
The most amazing thing was and not every time is that they shoot the brawlers.
And not the lurm boat go figure

[AzureRathalos]

Mystere, on 17 July 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

You speak as if only the LURMers are cowards while the peek-and-pokers are not. <shrugs>

Well, the topic is about LRMs, so I kept it with LRMs.

There can always be cowardice, it doesn't matter what build.

[JediPanther]

Requiemking, on 16 July 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

I see your Catapult and raise you an Adder A.

I'll stick to my C1F Cat. C1 be my fave mech and c1 and c4 are my go-to lrm mechs.I just like the IS lrm more than clan version. Been using lrms on the Cat for years and that mech got me into mwo. I've outfitted one of mt TW's with clrm 10x4 and smls and aptly named it Alpine which was uber fun before Alpine spawn locations were switch to that k-l nonsense at the foot of the mountain.

I've ran the Adder A both with lrm 15s and 20s with a single tag as a full on lrm light. It can be fun but I still rather use my Cat. There's also the different fire pattern of lrm which I favor IS as they volley fire giving them far better change of getting past l/ams while clrm just seem to be a p stream which ams nullifies way to easily. They're also more satisfying to see the blob of missile at once instead of a roman candle of clrms.

now if we could buy sound mods from pgi I'd go back to the cb sounds instead of the newer one for firing.

[Dogstar]

Grus, on 17 July 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

You are in CCT right?

I have no idea what CCT even means, I was referring to how you never have anything nice to say about anything: