15 replies to this topic

[Gryphorim]

Just spitballing a few more newtech weapons for the 3060's time period, to introduce a few weapon systems that didn't make it into the last batch.

------IS------

-Light AC2-
Tons - 4
Crits - 1
Damage - 2 per shell
Range - 620m
Max Range - 1440
Proj speed - 1300
Cooldown - 1.66s
Ammo/Ton - 87

-Light AC5-
Tons - 5
Crits - 2
Damage - 5 per shell
Range - 450m
Max Range - 900
Proj speed - 1100
Cooldown - 2.25s
Ammo/Ton - 35

Light autocannons allow the firepower of the standard AC, but at a reduced size and weight. They suffer a range and rate of fire penalty compared to a standard AC of that caliber, however.
Range, projectile speed and rate of fire are all similar to the AC of the next caliber up.
These could be of use to light and smaller medium mechs, allowing ballistic firepower at a lighter weight.

-----Clans-----

-HAG 20-
Tons - 10
Crits - 6
HPS - 4
Damage - 1 per shell
Range - 750m
Max Range - 1500
Proj speed - 2000
DPS - ~8
Ammo/Ton - 480

-HAG 30-
Tons - 13
Crits - 8
HPS - 6
Damage - 1 per shell
Range - 750m
Max Range - 1500
Proj speed - 2000
DPS - ~12
Ammo/Ton - 480

-HAG 40-
Tons - 16
Crits - 10
HPS - 8
Damage - 1 per shell
Range - 750m
Max Range - 1500
Proj speed - 2000
DPS - ~16
Ammo/Ton - 480

The Hyper-Assault Gauss rifle is a rapid fire gauss, functionally similar in operation to a rotary autocannon. Charging of the capacitors produces a delay before firing, similar to the spin-up of a RAC, after which the weapon produces a sustained volley of fire. The intense recoil causes the firing mech to shake, losing accuracy, a trade-off for the sheer damage potential of the weapon. The larger models retain the effective range and projectile flight characteristics of the smaller design, however increasing their rate of fire from 480 rounds per minute to 720, and 960 rpm. Naturally this causes proportionally increased shaking and loss off accuracy.
These heavy weapons, if carefully managed, offer incredible sustained fire potential to the clans, though unlike other gauss weapons, with negligible heat, HAG weapons generate comparable heat to RAC weapons.

--------------------------------------

Figures listed would of course not necessarily be final figures.

[FupDup]

Those Light AC cooldown values are atrociously bad. LAC/2 at 4 tons (+2 tons ammo) with only a hair more DPS than the 1-ton ammoless Medium Laser? Get out.

LACs are supposed to give high damage per ton such that they can make a small mech with non-MG dakka at least mildly threatening. Find other attributes to restrict them in.

Edited by FupDup, 18 July 2018 - 07:41 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Put 8 limit of gh on 2 and 5 on 5s.


Wait, you ask, why?! And why those numbers? Well with the Refire rate of 2s and that most is Mechs carry about 5 ac5s right now, this gives a reason to boat small caliber standard autocannons and allow boating of lights to a fairly Decent degree: the Refire rate of light acs is good but due to parts like cooling sleeves being removed to reduce weight they start to heat up quickly.

[Alex Morgaine]

Oh addendum: was assuming cool down was the same as normal counterparts and that the only different stats were range, like tt counterparts. Keep. The. Cooldown. Low.

No point if a standard 10 is as fast as a light 5, but if they kept the Refire speed...

[El Bandito]

Yeah those LAC DPS are pathetically bad. I am better off using MGs in their stead, and use the extra weight for other types of weapons.

[SPNKRGrenth]

A good idea overall, but the Light ACs should have no more than a 15% worse cooldown compared to standard. Better to nerf the range and velocity more, and keep the cooldown close to or even the same as standard ACs. 450m optimal range for Light AC2s and 360m optimal range for Light AC5s as an example.

HAGs would need a similar damage nerf compared to Lore/TT if added to the game that RACs got, but could be added to the game without being overly strong by lowering the firerate and damage per slug to something managable.

[Black Fish]

Those HAGs looks like the doom of "IS brawling advantage" or what's left of it anyways...
Ofc with the right balancing parameters it can be done. I would really like to have an alternative ballistic weaponery to the dominance of energy on light mechs, however as others have stated - the DPS should be higher at the cost of range, velocity etc. and restricted by GH to prevent abuse of heavier mechs.

[Gryphorim]

Yeah, fair enough the LAC's could probably get away with the same cooldown as standard AC's.

HAG effective range would be hampered by cockpit/reticule shake making them about as accurate as LBX weapons.

[LordNothing]

id give the lacs burst fire ala clan and do a bit higher dps. makes sense, reduce weight by reducing calibur and firing more rounds. burst fire also works out better on fast movers with limited ammo so that when you miss with a single round its not a huge loss. it also adds some flavor to the game.

lac2

3 round burst.
0.667 damage a round.
cd is 0.8s (including burst duration, to make math easier).
dps is 2.5 (10% less than an ac2).
heat is 0.6 (20% more than ac2).

lac5

4 round burst.
1.25 damage per round.
cd is 1.85 (includes burst duration).
dps is 2.7 (10% less than an ac5).
heat is 1.68 (20% more than ac5).

both optionally allow partial bursts as an ammo conservation feature, provided pgi's programmer isnt drunk that day. more heat keeps the weapons harder to boat on heavier mechs, though it might need more than 20% to do it. small loss in dps is easier to swallow with most of the tradoff being in the loss of single slug ppfld and shorter range.

*tweaked values

also clans desperately need a new ballistic to play with and it needs to be good so totally support hags being awesome.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 July 2018 - 09:40 AM.

[Josh Seles]

How about the Plasma Rifle (IS) and Plasma Cannon (Clan)?

[LordNothing]

also xpulse.

is needs a new laser about as much as clan needs a new ballistic.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 July 2018 - 10:19 AM.

[Snowbluff]

Josh Seles, on 19 July 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

How about the Plasma Rifle (IS) and Plasma Cannon (Clan)?

The Plasma cannon is beyond trash. It doesn't do any damage and generates an equal amount of heat to the mech.

[FupDup]

Snowbluff, on 19 July 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

The Plasma cannon is beyond trash. It doesn't do any damage and generates an equal amount of heat to the mech.

Flamers were in a similar situation TT-wise (3 heat to user, EITHER 2 damage or 2 heat to enemy) but in MWO a single Flamer can overwhelm an infinity number of heatsinks. Plasma Cannon is heavier and needs ammo, but can push you up to that 90% threshold from 540 meters away. There is a lot of wiggle room to make it useful in MWO, if not overbearing (the only thing keeping Flamers in check right now is that 90m restriction, 540m would be cray cray).

I also think that it would be logical for the weapon to do at least a little damage, I've never understood the TT logic of how something can generate enough energy to force an enemy giant robot to emergency shutdown but can't even tickle the armor like a Light MG (and similarly, how most energy weapons can instantly melt off lots of armor but somehow not generate any heat on the target unit). It's friggin plasma, it better be able to melt a little metal.

Edited by FupDup, 19 July 2018 - 12:44 PM.

[Gierling]

FupDup, on 18 July 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Those Light AC cooldown values are atrociously bad. LAC/2 at 4 tons (+2 tons ammo) with only a hair more DPS than the 1-ton ammoless Medium Laser? Get out.

LACs are supposed to give high damage per ton such that they can make a small mech with non-MG dakka at least mildly threatening. Find other attributes to restrict them in.

It would be enough to just give them lower range and velocity.

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 19 July 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

The Plasma cannon is beyond trash. It doesn't do any damage and generates an equal amount of heat to the mech.

It's 3 tons to the 6 tons on the IS Plasma Rifle, AKA light enough that you could pair it with some quality ballistic firepower. The IS one, on the other hand, is massive enough that you have to build a dedicated boat for it.

[Josh Seles]

Snowbluff, on 19 July 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

The Plasma cannon is beyond trash. It doesn't do any damage and generates an equal amount of heat to the mech.

So what? This is MWO, not TT. We should just make our own values.
As far as I know, Plasma weapons have only been in 1 Mechwarrior game anyways (MekTek MW4 Mercs). Obviously, I could be wrong. Lore is a good base to work off of, but it shoudn't be gospel, like how PGI seems to see it as.

Edit:
Could be an interesting counter to mid-range laser boating: Fire your Plasma Rifle, deliver a pile of extra heat and a bunch of damage to a laser vomit build, and they have to wait even longer to cool off (or even shut down in the crosshairs of your entire team).

Yeonne Greene, on 19 July 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

It's 3 tons to the 6 tons on the IS Plasma Rifle, AKA light enough that you could pair it with some quality ballistic firepower. The IS one, on the other hand, is massive enough that you have to build a dedicated boat for it.

I'm pretty sure the Plasma Rifle is 6 tons, 2 slots and 10 dmg, kind of like a Snub Nose PPC. Please correct if wrong.
I'd set ammo per ton here at 120-150 dmg per ton, likely 120 for 12 shots per ton of ammo, making it a little harder to abuse.
IIRC, the Plasma Cannon is half-weight, half-damage, half-size, but double the heat delivered to the target.

Edited by Josh Seles, 19 July 2018 - 07:39 PM.