119 replies to this topic

[Erik Krieger]

First of all, I am not a native speaker, so please forgive me my grammatical errors.

Very often it's been said, that LRMs are a terrible/ineffective weapon and that it's easy to counter them. I agree to that but only in the case of a 1 vs 1 situation or with little teams. LRMS are by no means easy to counter in a 12 vs 12 situation like in Quick Play. Why?

I just can't use always terrain, not because I am to dumb, but because there are 8 or 10 other enemies which I also have to fight against. In many situations you are temporary forced into positions where LRM can hit you badly and even destroy you without the chance to fight these mechs back. That's why they are so popular and getting popularer each day.

So, my provoking thesis or opinion is the following:

LRMs are a crutch weapon for bad players to be able to also get high damage scores and kills too. Not every match but often enough.
And that is why they are so annoying to better players. While the better players with aiming weapons are in an intense fight with each other (which inludes the necessity to move over the battlefield) they get often badly damaged by the beneficial LRMers in the third row.

A similar motivation I see in the coming LRM buff and in the intended mid range Laser nerfs and long range Laser buffs. Bad players benefit from sniping and LRM fighting styles. Even when i want to have a little more "relaxed" match for myself i use this two styles. They are not evil and some get really good at them, but nevertheless they give bad players the chance to play along.

So all this lately development is in truth a "Bad Player buff"... to make them happy and hold them to the game. But that's just my personal point of view and assumption.

Edited by NobleSavage, 15 July 2018 - 02:03 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Lame post is lame.
GJ getting on the hate bandwagon.
So let's keep the vitriol going.
Let's blame gypsies too!

[Erik Krieger]

HammerMaster, on 15 July 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

Let's blame gypsies too!

Are you comparing me or what I say with racists? If so I would like to hear a serious excuse or PGI should ban you right away.

[Soulless86]

I think you've hit the nail on the head noble, Hammer's response is inane because he's really not got anything to counter your point. like you've said in smaller number LRMs are an annoyance and getting in close to them or using cover works against a single player using LRMs. However they are a force multiplier, the problem of fighting players you can see while also getting pounded by people who're as far away as possible and a lot of the time, not even visible makes it extremely annoying.

And these issues are multiplied on certain maps that are pretty much designed for them.

[Nema Nabojiv]

NobleSavage, on 15 July 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

Very often it's been said, that LRMs are a terrible/ineffective weapon and that it's easy to counter them.
....
LRMs are a crutch weapon for bad players to be able to also get high damage scores and kills too. Not every match but often enough.

The truth is, they are effective, at least rignt now. But the bad players wont benefit from it because they can't play them right. Same goes for sniping with ERLLs.

[mailin]

In PGI's defense, I can see why they would want to improve the new player experience. But . . . there are other ways to that without altering weapon systems. Oh well.

[Erik Krieger]

Nema Nabojiv, on 15 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

The truth is, they are effective, at least rignt now.

I agree to that (in Quick Play) fully. I also agree that many don't play LRM "right".

But imo they are nevertheless so effective right now, that even the "bad players" (dont know a more gentle description for them) have big succss with them from time to time. On the contrary a "bad player" won't ever have the same level of success with a brawler build until he really starts getting better and better. Kill me with skill and everything is fine... that's what i was trying to say. That is what is so frustrating right now...

[Soulless86]

mailin, on 15 July 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

In PGI's defense, I can see why they would want to improve the new player experience. But . . . there are other ways to that without altering weapon systems. Oh well.

As a new player, I can say with certainty that they don't Improve it. As you don't yet know how to counter them it actually makes the game more annoying to get into. Not knowing the maps, and not knowing any counter play to Missile rain is detrimental to the 'new player experience'.

Edited by Soulless86, 15 July 2018 - 03:53 AM.

[Anastasius Foht]

"LRMs are a crutch weapon for bad players" - salt is real

[HammerMaster]

Haha ok. You are missing the point by assigning blanket blame to "lurmers". It's that kind of marginalizing statement YOU made that I was comparing to. So when YOU and others say "people who use Long Range Misses are bad players" or ""lurmers" YOU are causing hate in MWO. My statement is sarcasm. So if you didn't understand that in translation. Understandable. I'm all about inclusion.

[mailin]

Right, but I think PGI thinks that by making it easier to engage the enemy from a distance, they can encourage sniping and poking, which is the play style that newer players tend to do.

[Soulless86]

mailin, on 15 July 2018 - 04:03 AM, said:

Right, but I think PGI thinks that by making it easier to engage the enemy from a distance, they can encourage sniping and poking, which is the play style that newer players tend to do.

From the point of which I've entered the game poking seems like it's been forced as the play style to use, the predominance of laser, gauss and LRMS encourages that play style. The majority of the Mechs I've got are brawlers.

Edited by Soulless86, 15 July 2018 - 04:10 AM.

[Erik Krieger]

Anastasius Foht, on 15 July 2018 - 03:53 AM, said:

"LRMs are a crutch weapon for bad players" - salt is real

Perhaps my "salt" is just an adequate description of reality? And perhaps you don't like this adequate description of reality and therefore it's the reason for your salt over me... think about it.

Excursion:
Beeing "salty" means nothing. It's not good and it's not bad. It all depends on the answer to the question: Is there a comprehensible reason for this "salt"? If yes, change the reason for it and don't blame the "salty one". And if not, refuse it with arguments as incomprehensible "salt".
The same applies to words like "hate" or "unity"... they are completely meaningless until you put them in a context. There are times it's right to "hate" (e.g. injustice) and wrong to "unite" (e.g. with evil people).

[Erik Krieger]

HammerMaster, on 15 July 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

Haha ok. You are missing the point by assigning blanket blame to "lurmers". It's that kind of marginalizing statement YOU made that I was comparing to. So when YOU and others say "people who use Long Range Misses are bad players" or ""lurmers" YOU are causing hate in MWO. My statement is sarcasm. So if you didn't understand that in translation. Understandable. I'm all about inclusion.

Can you differ a PC Game from reality? Your "sarcasm" is about inhuman crimes in the real world and has offended me deeply. I didn't wrote that you are a racist, but that you put me in a row with them... for me that is very clear. So let neutral persons judge this...

Edited by NobleSavage, 15 July 2018 - 04:20 AM.

[HammerMaster]

/shrug
Fake news.
You still missed the point.
You make harsh statement. Ok
I make harsh statement. Bad guy?

BACK on topic.
I disagree with you.

[Soulless86]

I can see why this place is called the brown sea.

[Kroete]

NobleSavage, on 15 July 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

LRMS are by no means easy to counter in a 12 vs 12 situation like in Quick Play. Why?

And that is why they are so annoying to better players.

Please answer the two following questions, then i will aswer your post:
Do you mount ams?
What are "better players"?

[Anastasius Foht]

NobleSavage, on 15 July 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

Perhaps my "salt" is just an adequate description of reality? And perhaps you don't like this adequate description of reality and therefore it's the reason for your salt over me... think about it.

Excursion:
Beeing "salty" means nothing. It's not good and it's not bad. It all depends on the answer to the question: Is there a comprehensible reason for this "salt"? If yes, change the reason for it and don't blame the "salty one". And if not, refuse it with arguments as incomprehensible "salt".
The same applies to words like "hate" or "unity"... they are completely meaningless until you put them in a context. There are times it's right to "hate" (e.g. injustice) and wrong to "unite" (e.g. with evil people).

Why any player in this game think his way of arming their mech is only good and rest are "bad"? Wanna pwn CT with ur 2xheavy gauss and hate any 600+m weapons? Reality is anyone free to choose weapons MWO have, and blaming someone for use them usually called "salt".

[Daggett]

Soulless86, on 15 July 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

As a new player, I can say with certainty that they don't Improve it. As you don't yet know how to counter them it actually makes the game more annoying to get into. Not knowing the maps, and not knowing any counter play to Missile rain is detrimental to the 'new player experience'.

This. I think lurms are causing more frustration among newer players than they are catering to them.

For a new player they are not even that easy to play. I remember my first times back in beta.
You need to know that they are not fire&forget. It can take a while to realize that you need to keep the target locked until impact.
I guess it took some matches for me to learn that.
And lots of volleys will hit terrain because it takes time to get used to the arc they are flying which is also dependent on distance.

So as a newb back then i preferred lasers because they were much more straighforward.

[Erik Krieger]

Kroete, on 15 July 2018 - 04:27 AM, said:

Do you mount ams?
What are "better players"?

1. Yes, I do. But there are drawbacks to mount them and the majority of my mechs (280) ain't got the hardpoint for it.
2. "Better players" are the ones, who can beat another player without the need that the other one has "one arm handcuffed on his back."