181 replies to this topic

[x Deathstrike x]

Bud Crue, on 25 July 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Dude!
I said “nevermind”.
You ruined the joke.

Well, my bad then.

[KoalaBrownie]

Bush Hopper, on 24 July 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

2. Because most of the light mechs need to get close, you are mostly on your toes - no other mech class has that. Simply because a good alpha will badly damage your mech and a dual heavy gauss means you are trash.

Dual Heavy Gauss means you're trash in pretty much any weight category.
Anyway I understand the appeal of Lights as they are more about twitch gameplay but if I wanted that sort of gameplay I'd play an FPS like COD, not a Mechsim.

Bush Hopper, on 24 July 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

May I ask in which tier you guys (VonBach and KoalaBrownie) are? I wonder because, as I already pointed out, in lower tiers the tiny mechs and lights in general cause much more issues because it takes time of getting used to counter the tiny lights whereas in the upper tiers they seem often very fragile.

Tier 3

Bush Hopper, on 24 July 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

When you are next to the enemy team with no way to disengage it is, sorry, dumb, because the team will just turn and splatter you. So your flanking and backstabbing gained you nothing but an even trade.

Yeah that is dumb which is why I play smarter than that.
In a good game I can get 500+ damage and 3-4 kills flanking in a heavy, many of them solo kills.

Bush Hopper, on 24 July 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

4. Yeah, why should people play "boring" mechs (again, light mechs are the most exciting mechs out there for aforementioned reasons)? Can you answer me, though, why there are so many laser vomit mediums, heavies and assaults? I mean, they are the epidom of boredom. When I play heavier mechs I simply stay away from those builds.

Because for some people winning is the only way they can enjoy the game. Either that or they're too lazy or too new to think up a strategy of their own and simply play someone else's build.

Bush Hopper, on 24 July 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

5. Unique combat roles? Oh, tell me what unique combat roles medium, heavies and assaults have them. The point is, there is unfortunately no such thing in MWO

Yes this is a place where MWO follows tabletop too closely, the game is just about killing the other guy, and lacks the nuance found in either newer video or tabletop games.

Bush Hopper, on 24 July 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

In general once more: I am really wondering how some people here even dare to make big-mouthed statements about how easy lights

Never said Lights are easy, I said they're boring and too durable.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 July 2018 - 09:20 PM, said:

Again, this is the job of a light because you are essentially trying to find duels

Didn't you know? The job of the lights is to scout and then protect the assaults from the enemy lights. Not run around and backstab. See I can put your mech of choice into a pre-defined role as well. Isn't that useful for a discussion?

Edited by KoalaBrownie, 25 July 2018 - 10:42 AM.

[Prototelis]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Yeah that is dumb which is why I play smarter than that.
In a good game I can get 500+ damage and 3-4 kills flanking in a heavy, many of them solo kills.

Must not have "good" games very often.

Or do you play dumb in like 90% of your matches?


You can be less skilled and still have a valid opinion about the state of the game. However, I wouldn't go justifying any of yours with bragging on how much of a badass you are. You simply don't have the numbers to back up any of your braggadocio.

[Der Geisterbaer]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Didn't you know? The job of the lights is to scout and then protect the assaults from the enemy lights.

I wonder how enemy lights would be able to attack assaults if their sole purpose was to scout and then protect those assaults? But even when disregarding that little logic flaw I'd have to wonder ...

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Not run around and backstab.

... if running around and backstabbing assaults isn't exactly the kind of attacks by enemy lights that - according to you - lights should protect against?!

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

See I can put your mech of choice into a pre-defined role as well.

You certainly demonstrated how to create a logically flawed argument.

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Isn't that useful for a discussion?

Let's just say it wasn't useful for making your point(s).

[KoalaBrownie]

Prototelis, on 25 July 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Must not have "good" games very often.

Or do you play dumb in like 90% of your matches?

You can be less skilled and still have a valid opinion about the state of the game. However, I wouldn't go justifying any of yours with bragging on how much of a badass you are. You simply don't have the numbers to back up any of your braggadocio.

Not bragging dude, just saying what is possible flanking with a heavy.
Also like most people I have good numbers with some designs, bad numbers with others. Yesterday I played with at least 12 different designs, some of those playing for the first time in a over a year. I play for fun and variety not stats.

Der Geisterbaer, on 25 July 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

I wonder how enemy lights would be able to attack assaults if their sole purpose was to scout and then protect those assaults? But even when disregarding that little logic flaw I'd have to wonder ...

Oh didn't you realize? The enemy team is dumb for doing that. Because when discussing properly, anything that a person agrees with is "good" and anything they disagree with is "dumb" or "bad". That's the way it works, at least according to Kasala

Edited by KoalaBrownie, 25 July 2018 - 11:08 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

Oh didn't you realize?

All I'm realizing here is that your attempt of presenting an argument is still flawed.

[Prototelis]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

Not bragging dude, just saying what is possible flanking with a heavy.
Also like most people I have good numbers with some designs, bad numbers with others. Yesterday I played with at least 12 different designs, some of those playing for the first time in a over a year. I play for fun and variety not stats.

I dunno man, you're the one over here telling people that will eat you 99 times out of 100 how to play the game. Thats braggadocio, a word I think you might want to look up.

Yeah man, sometimes a heavy in a weird place can do some magic things. Sometimes.

More often than not you're probably throwing the game for your teammates because solo-commando in a heavy is one of the most potato things that can be done.

Edited by Prototelis, 25 July 2018 - 11:14 AM.

[KoalaBrownie]

Prototelis, on 25 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

I dunno man, you're the one over here telling people that will eat you 99 times out of 100 how to play the game.

Objectively wrong

KoalaBrownie, on 24 July 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

What's actually dumb is thinking that there is only one correct way to play.

Prototelis, on 25 July 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

More often than not you're probably throwing the game for your teammates because solo-commando in a heavy is one of the most potato things that can be done.

Can't call something potato unless people actually do it regularly which they don't. But I love how people in this community like to denigrate anyone who disagrees with them, either with name calling, or stat-shaming. Really if your only way to discuss is a personal attack, maybe it's time to stay off the forums.

Der Geisterbaer, on 25 July 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

All I'm realizing here is that your attempt of presenting an argument is still flawed.

You're not criticizing my argument, you're criticizing my mimicry of the opposing argument, which only proves my point.

[Der Geisterbaer]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

You're not criticizing my argument, you're criticizing my mimicry of the opposing argument, which only proves my point.

How could or should I "critize" your "argument" beyond the point of telling you that it's logically flawed? My criticism has nothing to do with your - alleged - mimicry of arguments that others might or might not have made against you. => Nope your "point" - whatever you think that is - isn't proven there like at all.

[KoalaBrownie]

Der Geisterbaer, on 25 July 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

How could or should I "critize" your "argument" beyond the point of telling you that it's logically flawed? My criticism has nothing to do with your - alleged - mimicry of arguments that others might or might not have made against you. => Nope your "point" - whatever you think that is - isn't proven there like at all.

Describing something I confessed to as "alleged" destroys your credibility as a serious participant in this discussion.

[Prototelis]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Can't call something potato unless people actually do it regularly which they don't.

So are you implying you aren't the heavy flankmaster?

Or are you trying to tell us people being out of position and getting their face smashed in isn't a pretty frequent occurrence?

I'm pretty sure you don't know what it means to be objectively wrong.

[Der Geisterbaer]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Describing something I confessed to as "alleged" destroys your credibility as a serious participant in this discussion.

Yes of course, you "admitting" to "mimicking" something suddenly makes it true that someone else used the same type of logically flawed argument against you. ~laugh~
Let's just say that you still fail to make a noteworthy point and your argument is still flawed.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Didn't you know? The job of the lights is to scout and then protect the assaults from the enemy lights. Not run around and backstab. See I can put your mech of choice into a pre-defined role as well. Isn't that useful for a discussion?

The job of a light is to scout, cap, and flank (rather that flank is from a distance or from getting close doesn't really matter). They have to multi-task, and sadly don't get much for it either.

Protecting assaults is generally a waste of a light, you've already put yourself in a bad place if your lights are screening enemy lights.

KoalaBrownie, on 25 July 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Yes this is a place where MWO follows tabletop too closely, the game is just about killing the other guy, and lacks the nuance found in either newer video or tabletop games.

What nuance are you talking about.....

This is a shooter; a game about stompy robots with guns destroying other stompy robots with guns. There are only so many interesting roles you can squeeze out. Having dedicated support mechs is how you get people to ever avoid playing them (see the Medic from TF2 or Mercy before she got changed repeatedly). If you aren't able to actively contribute to the fight without support then people avoiding playing that Mech/character/whatever, and that's rough if it is a useful character (like Mercy or the Medic).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 July 2018 - 12:38 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Prototelis, on 25 July 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Must not have "good" games very often.

Or do you play dumb in like 90% of your matches?

lmao dayum

[Weeny Machine]

@KoalaBrownie:
Thanks for answering the tier question. To be honest. Quicksilver Kalasas argument about your scores is pretty spot on. Has it ever occurred to you that a player with more experience (higher Tier) and better scores has a different and more solid grasp and view on the things?

[Viking Yelling]

Ive been playing the Piranha-1 for a little bit now. I suppose it isn't broken. It is well above a large majority of other lights in terms of power curve, often taking mediums at a minimum to deal with, and can down assaults with the fastest time to kill in the game that I have seen.

It is however very fragile, prone to terrain mishaps, and otherwise fairly difficult to play without experience.

ok, Skill MG boat is fine.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Bush Hopper, on 25 July 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Has it ever occurred to you that a player with more experience (higher Tier) and better scores has a different and more solid grasp and view on the things?

Not that it would make Koala's assessment of the PIR-1 any better but you're falling into a very common trap there yourself: correlation does not imply causation!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Der Geisterbaer, on 25 July 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

Not that it would make Koala's assessment of the PIR-1 any better but you're falling into a very common trap there yourself: correlation does not imply causation!

This is true, but I have yet to see a response from him somehow disproving my assessment of the situation. His argument essentially boils down to this idea that we are closed minded to his "good" ideas, not once understanding that all good players was at a similar point at some period in their "career" and that experience taught us that these sort of "good" ideas are actually bad.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 July 2018 - 01:25 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Der Geisterbaer, on 25 July 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

Not that it would make Koala's assessment of the PIR-1 any better but you're falling into a very common trap there yourself: correlation does not imply causation!

/chuckle
True but I hope in some cases it does. Call me an optimist

[Der Geisterbaer]

Bush Hopper, on 25 July 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

/chuckle
True but I hope in some cases it does. Call me an optimist

Going by my own stats it would appear that I have "no clue" about the PIR-1 either despite regularly piloting lights