64 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

BrunoSSace, on 26 July 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

None of these builds are practical in any way.

Exactly the point. IS are very far behind clans when it comes to actual use able high alphas that do not result in overheating deaths, shut down for a long time being exposed to the enemy, or are only one-shot-wonders troll builds with rocket launchers or hppc builds.

And clans will still be able to do 90-ish alphas even if the pts changes go live. My 2c jenner can do a sixty heavy laser alpha but none of my IS jenners with only 4 or 6 energy slots can't.

[IIXxXII]

Grus, on 26 July 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

And just think, clan is having a PTS for clan reduced damage for a 94 pnt alpha.

A bit on the silly side considering I haven't seen many clan mechs doing well in QP.

??????

[Grus]

https://mwo.smurfy-n...c04748028ba0db8

This is my founders atlas.. much alpha.

[El Bandito]

Grus, on 26 July 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

https://mwo.smurfy-n...c04748028ba0db8

This is my founders atlas.. much alpha.

Cool, now use that build to dominate the leaderboards. Let us see just how OP that mech is. And MRMs do not count cause it is spread damage. If we allow for spread damage then quad Clan ATM12 is already 144 damage alpha.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 July 2018 - 11:19 PM.

[Apache1990]

El Bandito, on 26 July 2018 - 09:10 PM, said:

Cool, now use that build to dominate the leaderboards. Let us see just how OP that mech is.

May not be OP, but my similar setup has been doing pretty well. It's become my preferred 100t assault build ATM.

[Khobai]

UAC20+MRM60 is best atlas build by far. super high damage and very manageable heat.

I was kindve hoping they would give SRMs a bigger buff to make the SRM atlas a thing again, but the MRMs are still way better.

And no its not an Annihilator. But its the best youre gonna do with an obsolete Atlas.

Edited by Khobai, 26 July 2018 - 11:51 PM.

[Lances107]

I did some practical builds on IS mechs, and it was not too hard to hit 100+ firepower, within reason of heat and weapon type. Despite everything the IS is getting, and the fact the devs are bias when it comes to the heavy gauss, in that they do not even want to recognize its a problem. You have IS players here on the forums looking for more weapon buffs on the IS side. The big bad 94 clan alphs is spread damage. Why? Because it is lasers not pulse lasers. Even more so generates a huge huge amount of heat, making it impossible to use consistently. A IS pilot can keep firing there heavy gauss non stop, we must keep that intact. We can not possibly give the Dual uac 20s back to the clans to give the clan players something to compete with.

[VonBruinwald]

Lances107, on 27 July 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

I did some practical builds on IS mechs, and it was not too hard to hit 100+ firepower, within reason of heat and weapon type. Despite everything the IS is getting, and the fact the devs are bias when it comes to the heavy gauss, in that they do not even want to recognize its a problem. You have IS players here on the forums looking for more weapon buffs on the IS side. The big bad 94 clan alphs is spread damage. Why? Because it is lasers not pulse lasers. Even more so generates a huge huge amount of heat, making it impossible to use consistently. A IS pilot can keep firing there heavy gauss non stop, we must keep that intact. We can not possibly give the Dual uac 20s back to the clans to give the clan players something to compete with.

Care to post those builds...

[Bishop Six]

JediPanther, on 26 July 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

Exactly the point. IS are very far behind clans when it comes to actual use able high alphas that do not result in overheating deaths, shut down for a long time being exposed to the enemy, or are only one-shot-wonders troll builds with rocket launchers or hppc builds.

And clans will still be able to do 90-ish alphas even if the pts changes go live. My 2c jenner can do a sixty heavy laser alpha but none of my IS jenners with only 4 or 6 energy slots can't.

Yesterday i built a useable cougar with 64 pinpoint damage alpha. 35 tons....

[El Bandito]

Lances107, on 27 July 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

I did some practical builds on IS mechs, and it was not too hard to hit 100+ firepower, within reason of heat and weapon type. Despite everything the IS is getting, and the fact the devs are bias when it comes to the heavy gauss, in that they do not even want to recognize its a problem. You have IS players here on the forums looking for more weapon buffs on the IS side. The big bad 94 clan alphs is spread damage. Why? Because it is lasers not pulse lasers. Even more so generates a huge huge amount of heat, making it impossible to use consistently.

Wrong. Clan lasers are not spread damage by definition, no matter how you wish to twist it. IS MRMs are spread damage--they are much less deadly as the damage numbers indicate.

Fact is, only 2xHGR build is considered OP in any shape or form from the IS side. The rest are all spread damage. There is no way IS mechs can have as much pinpoint damage as the Clans, and still have decent heat reduction/speed/armor. Their inferior tech wont allow it.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 July 2018 - 03:12 AM.

[Lances107]

Not wrong try keeping your lasers pin point component to component, while your target is moving, and you are moving. It will spread. Also those ACs combined with racs is having a similar effect to what the clan uacs used do, but I do appreciate the fact that someone from the other side was willing to admit to the insane nature of the heavy gauss. MRMs may be spread but they do allot of damage. Trust me Ive been on the receiving end of those things, they are nasty to boot.

The build you asked for specifically usea MRS, racs, acs, and heavy guass. A combination of weapons attached to each of the afore mentioned weapons.

I have never been interested in making one faction over powering to the other faction, because to me that is just dumb and boring. I do get tired every time I turn around, someone is spewing something about this clan weapon being op. A good example of this is the clan heavy large laser 18 points of damage, spread if your target is moving, with a whole hell of allot of heat. Yet its on the list of targeted weapons. I guess you could say my feelings on the issue is more frustration then anything else. I have no idea why they are going through the nerfs to IS quirks if they are going to keep the damage the same for the most part on the lasers but thats just me.

[El Bandito]

Lances107, on 27 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

Not wrong try keeping your lasers pin point component to component, while your target is moving, and you are moving.

My best performing mechs are Clan mechs, and keeping Clan lasers on moving target is much much easier than keeping MRMs on moving target. I cored out plenty of mechs with my 72 laser alpha that I do not consider Clan lasers as spread damage.

Lances107, on 27 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

I have no idea why they are going through the nerfs to IS quirks if they are going to keep the damage the same for the most part on the lasers but thats just me.

PGI wants to--and rightly so--reduce IS dependence on quirks. In order to reduce IS quirks, either IS tech needs to be buffed, or Clan tech needs to be nerfed. PGI is choosing the latter.

Lances107, on 27 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

I do appreciate the fact that someone from the other side was willing to admit to the insane nature of the heavy gauss.

I'm from Mercstar, and our mercenary unit drops equal length of time for both IS and Clan. We are one of the least faction biased units out there.

[VonBruinwald]

Lances107, on 27 July 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

Not wrong try keeping your lasers pin point component to component, while your target is moving, and you are moving. It will spread. Also those ACs combined with racs is having a similar effect to what the clan uacs used do, but I do appreciate the fact that someone from the other side was willing to admit to the insane nature of the heavy gauss. MRMs may be spread but they do allot of damage. Trust me Ive been on the receiving end of those things, they are nasty to boot.

You're confusing your terms, pin-point damage means all your damage hits exactly where you're aiming, RAC's and MRM's will spread their damage over multiple components at optimum range against a stationary target. Lasers do not, additionally lasers are hit-scan, there's no travel time for the beam, so there's no need to lead the target, they hit instantly unlike the afore mentioned RAC's and MRM's.

What you're talking about is front-loaded damage where all the damage is dealt in one instance such as with gauss rifles. The problem is because lasers are hit-scan and pin-point they have a lower skill requirement to use which means it's conceivable for the top tier players to focus all their damage on one component when both targets are moving and twisting, and those are the players we need to balance around.

[Grus]

El Bandito, on 27 July 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

Wrong. Clan lasers are not spread damage by definition, no matter how you wish to twist it. IS MRMs are spread damage--they are much less deadly as the damage numbers indicate.

Fact is, only 2xHGR build is considered OP in any shape or form from the IS side. The rest are all spread damage. There is no way IS mechs can have as much pinpoint damage as the Clans, and still have decent heat reduction/speed/armor. Their inferior tech wont allow it.

Yeah but they dont need a high alpha to cripple a clan mech. Clan mechs have less armor and HP than what they woulb be fighing against in FP. Case in point DS vs ANH/FAF/Mauler/atlas.

[C H E E K I E Z]

El Bandito, on 26 July 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Meanwhile there is a 235 pinpoint alpha Gigadrill Direwhale joke build running around. https://mwo.smurfy-n...c73738cfaff7f48

HEY THIS WAS MY DRUNKEN MASTERPIECE I LINKED AND PLAY ON MY ALT, DON'T FORGET WHERE IT CAME FROM.

[Grus]

That spread damage from those MRM's that you say are crap will and do wreck and shread armor on clan mechs. If a mech is doing 100 damage of spread and my st is only at 76 realistically how long do yoy thin its gping to tak to take out that clan mech? Take my atlas build for example. Ac20 and mls are the pinpoint and mr.60 is the spead... please let me dump that in you ST and ill watch your st lose mkst of its armor and watch your gauss go pop.

[Ghogiel]

El Bandito, on 27 July 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

PGI wants to--and rightly so--reduce IS dependence on quirks. In order to reduce IS quirks, either IS tech needs to be buffed, or Clan tech needs to be nerfed. PGI is choosing the latter.

[Daurock]

VonBruinwald, on 27 July 2018 - 07:08 AM, said:

What you're talking about is front-loaded damage where all the damage is dealt in one instance such as with gauss rifles. The problem is because lasers are hit-scan and pin-point they have a lower skill requirement to use which means it's conceivable for the top tier players to focus all their damage on one component when both targets are moving and twisting, and those are the players we need to balance around.

I might clarify that just a bit to note that not just the top tier players, but Pretty much ALL players are more accurate with hit scan, pinpoint weapons than with others. A player Bad with lasers is liable to be Even worse at leading a target. Spread hurts bad players less, but it still isn't going to "improve" their bad aim either. (Whatever gain they may see when they miss, they'll give right back up by having less damage on target when they actually put a shot near their target.) I guess the point is that currently lasers are very easy to use, even on the Bad end of the playerbase.

[Jack Dawes]

Grus, on 26 July 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:

And just think, clan is having a PTS for clan reduced damage for a 94 pnt alpha.

At which point it kills the pilot and explodes?

[Viking Yelling]

IIXxXII, on 26 July 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

A bit on the silly side considering I haven't seen many clan mechs doing well in QP.

??????

I was actualy in a QP against a 94pnt Deathstrike. I was using a Bushwacker with an AC-20 and 4 MPL with a deadside for damage sponge. He was across the plateau on Grim Plexus poking from the buildings. We had mostly clan mechs so no one was trying to tank, so he got a few mechs, but when we got over there, he went down rather quickly.

Deathstrike with gauss, HLL, and erML has some draw back being over looked. the HLL are a draw back themselves even though everyone is calling lasers with 1.55 duration "pin-point", and have a 5.75 cooldown. It's deadly when you aren't putting pressure on it.

If you think cycle-times for brawling, that DS has a 94 points every 7.3 seconds not factoring time for heat dissipation. or 58 points every 5.75 seconds or 30 p every 5 seconds, which is the fastest considering cooldown+duration from previous cycle.
My bushwacker has 24 points every 3.4 sec, and an additional 20 points every 4 sec. All of it actually being easily put into one component.

Edited by Viking Yelling, 27 July 2018 - 08:38 AM.