57 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

Right those exact guys were online last night. As someone who was killed by them their meta was not dakka. Laser drill Ebons and Hellbringers on wave two and three, not dakka. Maps played included Emerald Taiga defense and Frozen City skirmish.

Not even dakka on Terra Therma skirmish were they could have brought LBX/UAC spam.

Edited by Spheroid, 28 July 2018 - 10:55 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Spheroid, on 28 July 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

Right those exact guys were online last night. As someone who was killed by them their meta was not dakka. Laser drill Ebons and Hellbringers on wave two and three, not dakka.

Not even dakka on Terra Therma skirmish were they could have brought LBX/UAC spam.

AND? FP is a non competetive environment. There is no MM and is about farming 99% of the time. It's not like IS doesn't have to tools to eat clan for breakfast either. All that says to me is they rolled you over, nothing about what's meta or even if they are supposed to be good.

[Spheroid]

You said all gamemodes. Alter your post then.

[Ghogiel]

Spheroid, on 28 July 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

You said all gamemodes. Alter your post then.

No it's correct. People just bring what they want and there is no major try harding in those groups. meta is unaffected.

I can guarantee you if we could play FP modes in lobbies and have a comp in that mode. Those guys would get pwnt 9/10 if they laser vom against an IS side using meta. Not that 2 dozen half drunk players has more than a miniscule impact on the balance of the game anyway... you realise they aren't laser vomiting with IS. I think in FP IS is stronger anyway, ironically because clan have to rely too much on laser vom to compete, which is just weaker then dakka and NSR right now.

After their lasers get nerfed FP balance will way more lopsided then it is now.

Edited by Ghogiel, 28 July 2018 - 11:18 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Ghogiel, on 28 July 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

No it's correct. People just bring what they want and there is no major try harding in those groups. meta is unaffected.

I can guarantee you if we could play FP modes in lobbies and have a comp in that mode. Those guys would get pwnt 9/10 if they laser vom against an IS side using meta. Not that 2 dozen half drunk players has more than a miniscule impact on the balance of the game anyway... you realise they aren't laser vomiting with IS. I think in FP IS is stronger anyway, ironically because clan have to rely too much on laser vom to compete, which is just weaker then dakka and NSR right now.

After their lasers get nerfed FP balance will way more lopsided then it is now.

Why would you be using laser vomit on IS when you can just load your deck with surefire Hgauss platforms that wreck on most fp maps

[Ghogiel]

Jackal Noble, on 28 July 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Why would you be using laser vomit on IS when you can just load your deck with surefire Hgauss platforms that wreck on most fp maps

You wouldn't. that's the point. like you say, even Hgauss (imo not really tho) is superior to clan laser vom and wrecks on most maps

Edited by Ghogiel, 28 July 2018 - 12:38 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Ghogiel, on 28 July 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

You wouldn't. that's the point. like you say, even Hgauss (imo not really tho) is superior to clan laser vom and wrecks on most maps

You come around the corner with your 94 point alpha DS and 400 m out there’s a 65 hgauss alpha Slepnir. What do you do?

[Ghogiel]

Jackal Noble, on 28 July 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

You come around the corner with your 94 point alpha DS and 400 m out there’s a 65 hgauss alpha Slepnir. What do you do?

I'd probably go back to mechlab and take the HLL off.

[The6thMessenger]

Ghogiel, on 28 July 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

If the argument is clan lasers are powerful therefore they need to be nerfed is all there is, while looking at it in a vacuum, we should be nerfing dakka asap because it is in fact more powerful.

Powerful? Yes. Out of control? Not really.

[HammerMaster]

I'll take the freebies.
I play.
Knowing that my input is binned.
THE PTS IS DEAD!
LONG LIVE THE PTS!

[Ghogiel]

The6thMessenger, on 28 July 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

Powerful? Yes. Out of control? Not really.

That's the point. Where is the laser vom out of controll that they need broad spectrum nerfs. Even on lasers types that no one is call OP and have nearly nothing to do with laser vom

[Rafe Yomin]

eminus, on 27 July 2018 - 11:49 PM, said:

looks like the 2M cbills + Warhorn is not enough to entice players to test the PTU.

even with only 4v4 the matchmaking is very long which I think because there are not enough testers

Didn't even know there was another PTS up. Maybe PGI could time it not to coincide with the middle of their MC giving events? IF i was paranoid, i'd think they don't want people on there .

Edited by Rafe Yomin, 28 July 2018 - 09:03 PM.

[eminus]

PEOPLE STOP CHOOSING CONQUEST , it is 4v4 for crying out loud!!

[The6thMessenger]

Ghogiel, on 28 July 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

That's the point. Where is the laser vom out of controll that they need broad spectrum nerfs. Even on lasers types that no one is call OP and have nearly nothing to do with laser vom

I dunno? QP? Comp? They use it and not every other builds for a reason.

[HammerMaster]

eminus, on 28 July 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

PEOPLE STOP CHOOSING CONQUEST , it is 4v4 for crying out loud!!

Conquest. Troll yours AND the enemy team! YES!

[KoalaBrownie]

Ensaine, on 28 July 2018 - 04:47 AM, said:

The PTS is useless because it's set up to test changes to a 12v12 game using 4v4 to test....

It's probably 4 vs 4 because of low player participation.
4 vs 4 is better than no tests at all

[MischiefSC]

Jackal Noble, on 28 July 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

You come around the corner with your 94 point alpha DS and 400 m out there’s a 65 hgauss alpha Slepnir. What do you do?

First, if you're bumbling around a blind corner in a Deathstrike you're an idiot.

Second, you're running gauss and cermls on most maps. On Alpine/Polar you'd take gauss + erlls.

In any case you're not getting closer than 400m to an hgauss IS mech until it's already chewed. If you're on defense stay back and shoot legs.

Or take big dakka/splat and realize that HGauss is brutal both for PPFLD & DPS both. Run 4 heavies, expect to take a beating on wave 1 but dominate wave 3/4.

Edited by MischiefSC, 29 July 2018 - 02:23 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

MischiefSC, on 29 July 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

First, if you're bumbling around a blind corner in a Deathstrike you're an idiot.

Second, you're running gauss and cermls on most maps. On Alpine/Polar you'd take gauss + erlls.

In any case you're not getting closer than 400m to an hgauss IS mech until it's already chewed. If you're on defense stay back and shoot legs.

Or take big dakka/splat and realize that HGauss is brutal both for PPFLD & DPS both. Run 4 heavies, expect to take a beating on wave 1 but dominate wave 3/4.

You missed my point.

[MischiefSC]

Jackal Noble, on 29 July 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

You missed my point.

I would say the argument itself is flawed.

There are mechs used in specific roles in specific situations that are, in that very narrow purview, incredibly strong. Bordering on OP. There's several clan laservomit/gaussvomit builds that fit in that category and can be used in QP to farm terribads effectively.

However that's not 'real' balance any more than 'LRMs are OP' is real balance. Buffs to various missiles and ballistics since the release of the Deathstrike has overshadowed those builds. HBR laservomit is still a strong mech. It's not the strongest possible heavy though, is it?

That's the crux of the complaints. It's not that Clan lasers are well balanced - they were not, never have been. However the justification for this fix is way out of date and there's other balance issues that are bigger and more relevant that this doesn't touch at all. This is a lot of work put into a secondary (at best) balance issue in the game.

A year ago this would have been a serious discussion and while the original set of changes were bad at least they were a sign that PGI recognized the significant balance issues. Various buffs to ballistics have moved us past bad laser balance and yet several months later all of a sudden PGI starts looking at it? How long until we get a serious look at all ballistics?

This approach of 'hey, a year ago wasn't X an issue?' hurts any faith people have in balance decisions. It reminds many of us of the months and months of Long Tom helping totally eliminate the FW population only to have PGI show up and say 'wait, what, Long Tom is a problem? You sure?' when the population was at a fraction of its prior already shallow depth.

If PGI doesn't even look at something being a problem for 6-12 months then it's irrelevant and pointless to even look at it. Damage is already done. You've already convinced a whole new crop of people to quit MWO for other games that actually fix **** when it's problematic. Then you introduce a whole new set of issues because everything else that changed in the last 6 months means the changes you're making are probably screwing something else up.

[Jackal Noble]

But but the datas. How are they supposed to get the datas? :-p
Yes I concede there are other more malevolent forces at work within the game that are currently more troubling than the performance of some of the weapons.
Unfortunately it’s tied to some of the aspects you mentioned above...

Edited by Jackal Noble, 29 July 2018 - 05:18 PM.