1169 replies to this topic

[Kell Aset]

Paul Inouye, on 13 August 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Scenario:
--------------------------------
Faction Chat: "Do you like c-Bills.. visit wwww.xyzmonies.net.gov. $4.99USD for 5M CB, $9.99USD for 12M CB, $49.99USD for 100M CB"
--------------------------------
This scenario plays out if you allow players to do c-bill transfers. i.e. coffer distribution. "Come join my unit and I'll transfer the farmed gold cbills to you."

However, there IS a possible solution to this... in order to transfer cbills, both players must be in the same unit for X number of days, where X > 14.

Thoughts?

My cbills my decision, I have been grinding cbills for years and if I want to give some of them to some random guy i bumped into during a match just because his name is PancakeArmor007 or because I like his pink Annihilator it should be my choice. If I want to sell my cbills for real cash and buy myself smth nice that also should be my choice. I also would prefer to not be forced into joining a unit whenver I'd feel generous.

Anyway, about "Faction" Play, I can't wait for this upcoming podcast, I really hope to hear smth good, something about BIG changes/updgrades coming to our poor FP, as it is now it is sadly a bland and meaningless game mode.

I'd like Faction Play aka Faction Warfare aka Community Warfare to have some purpose, clear goal, consequences, economy, planet management of some sort (something like buying and adding to the planets/maps we will play on some additional turrets, walls fortifications, destroyable buildings that "produce" income, even if enemies invading won't win and conquer the planet they can destroy its $$$ value, well destroy it at least for some time till those buildings will be up and working again, perhaps even buildings spawning little vehicles supporting us in battle to give us this nice combined arms feel, since you can't for some reason do npcs could u do what u did with VIP Atlas? building spawns few tanks they go thru predetermined route for "patrol" and fire at anything nearby, when tanks get destroyed after x minutes another group of tanks gets spawned ).

I'm House Kurita loyalist or at least I was since Community Warfare was released but for this event and some previous FP events that required it I swapped, soon I will be back with Kurita, not like it matters. Sadly I must say that I completely don't care about my faction, nothing in MWO makes me care about my faction, It doesn't matter to me if my faction is losing or winning, there are no real (small nor grand) consequences of losing/winning planets/battles/wars. Only IS map changes but nobody cares, it doesn't matter. Map resets make any sort of conquest pointless. In addition we don't have planets of greater importance, all planets we have in FP are equally unimportant. Why oh why would I care that my so called faction lost planet X and won planet Y? they are the same, lore ? hah little bit of lore won't make me care. That is why I wish we had some sort of FP economy, factory planets bringing profits, money usable for example to fortify planets guarding the way to those important $$$ planets.

Also we don't really have "factions" in MWO, just bunch of ppl with same faction logos, all that territory, all those planets and we cant do anything with that, just lose some, gain some, we dont have faction leaders nor even faction leader representatives, all those fancy faction ranks we have in FP are so very meaningless, all those generals, galaxy commanders etc. cant do ****, have no "real power, if we had some politics system, alliances, perhaps then they could have smth to do.

What about unique faction specific skills or traits? special weapon variants?

Small things:

- I actually liked "repair & rearm", kinda wish we had it again even if only for FP

- btw. REJOIN MATCH button should be placed somewhere else to be more visable

- swapping factions, need to do smth with stacking on the winning side, penalty in a form of less cbills earned per match perhaps? ofc it won't matter for some long time players that at this point are super rich,

- instead of long tom we could get some free arty strikes usable by lance commanders? you know for example in Battlefield 2142 u can have multiple squads and squad leaders could request EMP strikes, arty strikes, supply drops stuff like that,. but only the team commander could drop those, perhaps we could have smth like this here too? we could use smoke screens too

- hope to see that surrender button added to FP

- Increase conquest cap points from 1250 to 1500 maybe even 2000, conquest in FP is somewhat fun, more fun than in QP

- don't remove QP maps from FP, we need more maps in game, not less and we need to get more than 1 new map added to the game per year, it is multiplayer only shooter after all ffs, I just wonder why map maker tools are not released for our community to use with some guide on how to make maps for MWO?

- give us as reward more xp/cbills'LP etc. if we take lighter than possible dropderck into FP match, the less tonnage u will take and use the more stuff u get after the match

- this one is not FP related but will throw it in just btw, could u please consider putting our mech status screen, enemy mech status screen, weapons status screen and minimap on the screens that we have in our cockpit? we have all those useless screens in our cockpit, we would have a reason to look around the cockpit

- another non FP thing but i need to ask, i wish we could change text size in our chat, im playing the game in 1920-1080 rez and text in IS chat/Faction Chat is so small

- I agree with the idea to make gates in invasion mode destroyable, remove generators

Edited by Kell Aset, 30 October 2018 - 08:02 PM.

[Horseman]

UnKnownPlayer, on 14 August 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

There still is, go to the faction play tab then on the leader boards section. The down side is that if you swap from merc to loyalist or loyalist to merc it resets you to the bottom so higher positioned players could just flip flop to get more bonuses, especially as there is no loss of LP now and it takes literally seconds to do.

And that is one of the reasons my proposal only used the enemy's rating to determine the bonus you get from kill/KMDD/assist against them instead of any relative comparison between yours and the enemy's. Facing a high-ranked opponent would be equally rewarding for an ace or a potato, and would always be more rewarding than facing a potato.

Kell Aset, on 14 August 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

What about unique faction specific skills or traits? special weapon variants?

Anything that affects balance is probably a no. A rewards boost for running lore-compliant chassis/variants would be a different matter though.

Quote

- btw. REJOIN MATCH button should be placed somewhere else to be more visable

I said it before and I will say it again: If you lose connection and relog when there's a match already in progress with your mechs, you should be directed straight into the match without losing time on loading the mechbay.

[UbeCool2]

I don't have many mechs but faction play looked like fun after all quick play gets so boring with players just picking the same maps and game modes over and over again I think the vote system is so stupid.

So I ventured forth to play FP with my few mechs and the free ones I had some good battles 600-1000 damage and a few kills it took over 10+ minutes to find a battle but it was worth it we had just a few players with the same unit tags like 2 groups and the other side was the same a few small groups and solo players it was a tight game ending when we downed there last pilot.

I thought wow this is so fun and a great game mode so I queued up for another battle this time it took like 15 minutes to get into a battle wow long wait time but I thought ok it was still worth it knowing how fun the game mode really is so we launched and it was a big unit 10 player same tag plus 2 others.

OMG they came in we fired at them over and over with almost no damage done but they just kept coming killing everything in there path and it was like all 12 of us could not kill a one of them finally it was like 30-1 and we killed one as they surrounded our spawn point and as soon as we were out of the ship we were basically dead.

I can see why some in this thread want a solo only FP game mode or just allow a small group of 2-4 team player per side because those game were fun and exciting knowing I had a chance to win a few battles. I have not found a team I like I tried 1 or 2 drops with a big team it was ok but they said go play quickplay get lost when I did not do the damage they wanted me to do in a battle.

I cant blame them for my performance but it sure sobered me up on team group play and how some can be so rude and unforgiving I would say big teams need not to play with solo players if this is there attitude it drove me away from FP and basically MWO as if I cannot play FP as my chosen game mode when I please and have fun playing it.

So that is my suggestion just segregate FP for those that just want to have fun in one drop and teams by themselves in another drop that way the game mode would be fun for both types of players and also some players like me would come back to play MWO.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I'm fine with Units giving away C-Bills to new players in the unit. Heck, I think you could give them mechs. Or choose the mechs you want them to have. Give each new player to switch to your unit 50 Million C-Bills. Who the funk cares.

But mechs do not matter, teamwork does.

IMO, my idea about selling old mechs as a package with one from each weight class is a good idea. Just on it's on. Right now PGI is selling 10 lights etc as a package. Who needs 10 old light mechs? Let the good players get together and make a list of the good mechs and then sell "Faction Warfare" packages.

But this is not going to raise the population of the game and I think that this is what is very important.

I still also say that someone with a good PC and 24 players could break down FW in a week. The spectators could do the recording and you could show "here is how you take down the Boral gates" and here is how you don't.

This is how you enter with all 12 players running at full speed and being so close they are touching each other. You could show where you set up for defense. What spots are the good ones. Here are the routes you take while attacking.

I played over a year before Yushi told me that there is a window on the Gens that you have to shoot into to take them out. And in almost every match I'm in, there is at least one player that does not know that. No one helps anyone in FW. These 3 guys and these 4 guys are in Teamspeak and no one is talking to the PUGs. I've heard 100 times "let's just use them as meat shields".

I feel like the house is on fire and people are wondering about what new curtains will help.

[Horseman]

UbeCool2, on 14 August 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

So I ventured forth to play FP with my few mechs and the free ones

Mistake number one: you took trial mechs to FP. They're barely adequate for QP as it is, taking them into FP is just gimping yourself - and by extension, your team.

Quote

I had some good battles 600-1000 damage and a few kills

Mistake number two: you set yourself a low bar for performance and assume it's good when it's anything but.
In FP, given that you have four mechs to work with, average performance for the winning side is 1200-1500 in a combat victory. If you're only doing 1000, that's sub-par but passable. Anything below that, and you're underperforming and your team has to make up the difference.
Don't worry, it's fixable - with some effort. I've been in the same position last year and it has taken me less than three months to make that leap.
The question to ask yourself would be why you're not performing better: are you dying too quickly, not getting your shots on target, not dealing damage fast enough or taking builds that do not perform well in the given map/mode combination ? Once you know the answer, focus on improving in that aspect. Shoot for doing minimum 300 damage per mech.

Quote

OMG they came in we fired at them over and over with almost no damage done

Mistake number three: no teamwork. Your team was either missing too often, firing out of range (remember: damage starts falling off beyond optimal range, and is zero at maximum range) or spreading their damage over multiple enemy mechs instead of focusing on single targets to deprive the enemy of their firepower. An enemy mech at 50% health may very well be at 100% of his offensive capabilities and if he has any clue will move to the back of enemy formation, hiding behind his less damaged teammates while supporting them with his firepower.
This game has built-in VOIP. Start using it.

Quote

but they just kept coming killing everything in there path and it was like all 12 of us could not kill a one of them finally it was like 30-1

Mistake number four: Your team panicked and tried to reinforce a lost position with single mechs instead of regrouping before going to fight. One mech running at the enemy won't survive long enough to make a difference, it's just feeding them a free kill.

Quote

I have not found a team I like I tried 1 or 2 drops with a big team it was ok but they said go play quickplay get lost when I did not do the damage they wanted me to do in a battle.

Not every unit is casual-friendly. Have you read the warning you were shown when you clicked "Faction Play"?

Quote

So that is my suggestion just segregate FP for those that just want to have fun in one drop and teams by themselves in another drop that way the game mode would be fun for both types of players and also some players like me would come back to play MWO.

They tried it before, and it didn't work. Most of the player base doesn't touch FP. That's why you've observed the long matchmaking times - if PGI did split the queue in the manner you describe, expect to wait for matches 3-4x longer than you did.

Edited by Horseman, 14 August 2018 - 01:08 PM.

[Peter2k]

xX PUG Xx, on 14 August 2018 - 03:51 AM, said:

ThecFP leaderboard is primarily ranked by KMDD, which is not strictly an indication of skill if you play enough games.

For me the point is PGI already keeps track, so what if you have to add some more statistics and add a formula or something
An underlying system is already in place

UnKnownPlayer, on 14 August 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

There still is, go to the faction play tab then on the leader boards section. The down side is that if you swap from merc to loyalist or loyalist to merc it resets you to the bottom so higher positioned players could just flip flop to get more bonuses, especially as there is no loss of LP now and it takes literally seconds to do.

But I'm sure the DEV of the game can make that permanent at least internally and keep track, as well as tracking meaningful statistics

[Ensaine]

Paul Inouye, on 13 August 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Scenario:

--------------------------------

Faction Chat: "Do you like c-Bills.. visit wwww.xyzmonies.net.gov. $4.99USD for 5M CB, $9.99USD for 12M CB, $49.99USD for 100M CB"

--------------------------------

This scenario plays out if you allow players to do c-bill transfers. i.e. coffer distribution. "Come join my unit and I'll transfer the farmed gold cbills to you."

However, there IS a possible solution to this... in order to transfer cbills, both players must be in the same unit for X number of days, where X > 14.

Thoughts?

I think CBill transfers should also have a one way fee... usually a small percentage of the withdrawl......

[Eisenhorne]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 13 August 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

All new players need is a $10.00 package of old mechs, one per weight class, not 10 from the same one. Give them a drop-deck with 4-5 mechs and 30 days of PT (which cost you NOTHING!)

I like this idea. A "Faction Play" pack, kinda like you guys did a Solaris pack. Pick 4 mechs that have their tonnage add up to 255-265 (for IS) or 245-255 (for clans) w/ 4 mech bays, and allow duplicate selections (so if you wanna do 3x WHM-6R and a BSW-X1 you can). Charge like $10.00, and include a month of premium time along with it.

[Ninjah]

Make only Tier 3 and above able to play FP. Tiers will finally have some meaning and it'll motivate newbs to do well in QP in order to unlock FP and in return it'll be less polluted with noobies. New players will get a real sense of progression this way. Another point of motivation is higher C-Bill reward then other modes. I would totally change the loyalty rewards - add some faction warhorns, faction colors, faction decals, something interesting. Current rewards are laughable and so out of date.

I won't repeat what others said, just adding some ideas that I haven't seen so far.

[Spheroid]

Kell Aset, on 14 August 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

- I actually liked "repair & rearm", kinda wish we had it again even if only for FP

Not in a form that enables positive feedback. Winning begets winning. If untempered you create a logistical death spiral from which a faction cannot recover. Why do you think that draft picks are so popular in professional sports? Static dynasties are unpopular for the fans.

Negative, not positive feedback is needed as a balancing mechanic. That is how five distinct houses still persist after nearly a millennia in the board game setting. The supply chains outran themselves, Comstar punished the winning faction, etc. They were all negative feedback mechanisms which were good for the game and the in universe setting. I would be willing to incorporate R&R if another game mechanic such as territorial control bonus counteracted it in achieving earnings equilibrium.

Edited by Spheroid, 15 August 2018 - 12:05 PM.

[50 50]

REGARDING : Repair and Rearm
A feature like this would add another element to the game and some more depth, but the structure of the matches and modes don't really support this sort of feature at the moment.
It would need to either be:

• Option 1: A feature internal to the matches

That is, something we can do while running about on the maps, but the missions (skirmish, assault, siege etc) and the design of the maps don't really support it. The common idea here is some sort of fixed or mobile repair station that you simply park your mech in for a while to repair it.

But the way the matches play out is to move yourself to the frontline and blaze away until your mech is destroyed then go get another.
It is also not uncommon to simply eject out of the mech to get back into position faster.
The mechs have no value, ie. they are simply not worth trying to save.

It would work better if there was more of a progression with the objectives or you needed to complete certain objectives to be able to launch your next mech.

For example:

IF the modes had some forward locations that could be captured which allowed players to repair or swap mechs before moving to the next objective. There doesn't need to be a cost associated with repairing or replacing a mech other than the time it takes, but if there was one, it should be points that you need to accumulate during the match itself. That is, points that might just accumulate over time and/or something you can boost by capturing a supply depot or something.

This sort of game play would be more like combining the different missions (assault, scouting, siege etc) into one single match.

Either way, it's all internal to the match and does not cost a player in match earnings.

• Option 2: A feature external to the matches.

The only way to do this would be to manage the drop decks a little differently. One possibility would be only allowing one mech per drop (ie. closer to quick play) but extending the drop deck over multiple matches. Players could start with a number of resource/supply points that could be used for repairs to extend the life of their drop deck.

It suggests also making the outcome of each mission have some sort of impact on the player, a reward other than just c-bills, that creates a reason for taking on that mission (ie. vote for it) which you then carry forward to the next mission.
For example:
Successfully completing a conquest mission gives the player more resource/supply points therefore letting you extend the drop deck further.
Scouting might give Intel points to use in voting for the missions.
Incursion might allow you to swap a mech out of the drop deck.
It also suggests that the drop deck is 'locked in' for the duration and that there should be some sort of accumulated reward based on how many successful missions you can complete with that drop deck or when you decide to 'leave the campaign'.


In either scenario it uses a system independant to match earnings so players are not prevented from buying and customizing their mechs.

While both would require some substantial work, Option B is probably the simpler path as it is much closer to what we have now in Quick Play. An added benefit of which would be then enabling all maps and missions for Faction Play and any future additions could be instantly ported in. It also solves the spawn camping issue as there would be no respawns in a match.

Edited by 50 50, 17 August 2018 - 03:46 PM.

[Angm4r]

Paul Inouye, on 13 August 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

However, there IS a possible solution to this... in order to transfer cbills, both players must be in the same unit for X number of days, where X > 14.

Thoughts?

I hate gold (c-bill sellers), but if I could distribute c-bills from unit coffers in addition to MC that would make my life easier. Also, you wouldn't have us distributing to people that had not proven themselves to the unit, but people that had cleared our training program, so then we would just be helping them build the mechs they needs for FP

[vonJerg]

forgot if this was mentioned:
- can we have user in group state to stay ready when search is canceled?

[Paul Inouye]

vonJerg, on 16 August 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

forgot if this was mentioned:
- can we have user in group state to stay ready when search is canceled?

Hmm.. will have to ask. Flash <> Scaleform -> CryEngine isn't fun.

[Paul Inouye]

Pod cast was recorded on Tuesday... it's fairly long... Daeron needs a bit of time to edit.

Just a heads up about the podcast...

I cover a design doc that has already gone through tech reviews and is essentially good to go. After all the feedback, I'm collecting as many items as possible to try to include into the feature update. A lot of what is on the community list is kinda covered by the umbrella design doc already.

When it's up, take a listen and we can continue the discussion. I just ask that people keep in mind... nothing is as easy as it seems and I touched on this in the podcast but also will be covering more in the future post-podcast..post...?

[Nightbird]

Paul Inouye, on 16 August 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Hmm.. will have to ask. Flash <> Scaleform -> CryEngine isn't fun.

There is a bug/feature where if you close the friends list/group box after readying up, it will not unready you if a search is cancelled.

Been using this feature for years.

[Wing 0]

Heres something that can be done with what we have CURRENTLY. Heres a short version for ya paul. Hope this helps. For Faction Play only.

Domination:

1:30 too short of time. Like to see teams having a second chance to getting the zone after it was taken. maybe a 4:00 timer would work? something to look into

Conquest:

Need to raise the goal to 1600 from 1230.

Assault:

We need to have several turrets surrounding the base. Its not skirmish sadly so turrets should've been in the FP version instead.

We need a 10 or 15 min time capping restriction meaning you cant base rush in the firs 10 to 15 minutes of the game. This is just to keep fights lasting more than 5 minutes. Ive seen several games having that aesthetic in their modes and it seems to work. maybe we should look into that.

Regarding incursion:

Just remove it from Faction Play. It has no place here in all honesty. I hate playing incursion especially when it entices idiots to end the game in under 5 minutes. Seen that more than enough.

Siege:

I have a longer version but going to keep this short on what needs to be done that can be done easily.

Boreal Vault

The areas of I6 ,I7, H5, and H6 need fixing. borderlines were left unfixed.

H8 the mountain area between the DZ and Omega Gun needs to be completely unclimbable.

G7 Need the mountain areas there to be reworked on. Some people mentioned that area needs fixing and it needs it.

The gate gens do need to be a little more easier to deal with to open the gate. Where they are setup now, LRM boats tend to scare pilots off pretty badly.

Sulfurous Rift

C3 we caught an idiot glitching there on purpose, one nice arty killed the idiot hiding there for conducting unconstructive purposes. surely you will fix that right?

Emerald Taiga

F4 The mountain needs to be higher. We've seen too many ppl sniping from F3 DZ Spawn area. That little gap is not a problem but the mountain in between needs to be where they have to go down and get into the fight.

Grim Portico

The out of bounds alert is not working properly in many areas near the gates and we've seen people committing suicide and we know that was not intentional of them doing that. annoying bug that still hasn't been fixed.

I have longer version but only pointing out what CAN be done with whats currently going on right now. This shouldn't be hard for ya.

We did send a message about why we didn't want LRMs to be buffed too Paul. Sorry. *sings "Its Rainin LRMS!"*

Edited by Wing 0, 16 August 2018 - 05:53 PM.

[creativeabyss]

Wing 0, on 16 August 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

snip

Dont listen to the first half please paul, playing objectives is fun and adds variety. I dont especially disagree with the siege map tweaks, but the suggested mode tweaks would just turn everything into skirmish with red and blue colors next to your huds kill counter, which i DO heavily disagree with. Skirmish is fun, but playing objectives every now and then adds a deeper level to the base gameplay. Inflating timers and resource points needed for objective wins kills that deeper strategic gameplay.

if your having trouble with base rushing or not getting into the circle on time, then set objective gaurds or drop a light specifically for handling those things. thats were things like strategy and teamwork really come in.

Edited by creativeabyss, 17 August 2018 - 01:26 AM.
misrepresentation of statements, misquote now removed

[Eisenhorne]

You say that like it already isn't that way, creativeabyss.

It's mostly a game now of how to avoid completing the objective while you kill the enemy as hard as you can.

[creativeabyss]

in a stomp it is, but when 2 units of about equal skill converge, it adds the depth.

also, if your opponent is playing the way you say, avoiding objective in favor of farming, then it actually provides less skilled groups a means of overcoming that better unit by using their hubris against them.

ive seen it done many times, particularly (one might almost say exclusively) to guys in this thread who are asking for longer objective timers, which makes me question their motives for asking for longer timers.