1169 replies to this topic

[S O L A I S]

Cadoazreal, on 06 August 2018 - 04:42 AM, said:

What was tried did not bare ANY SEMBLANCE to splitting solo and grouped, please refer to my previous posts page 10 onwards, read a thread before you post in it please.

Doesn't matter if you have a new and different method to split the queue than the last time... simple answer is the split didn't work and with the low population any new and exciting idea to split the queue will produce the same results.

CW is the restriction free safe zone for groups and units to play together. There needs to be zero pug on pug action. For that there is quick play.

[Fuerchtenichts]

Cadoazreal, on 06 August 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

... several post above ...

I can't see how copying Solo Queue QP will help FP. Just look at the running Davion-Kurita event and people moaning that the teams are not "fairly" setup. In some matches there aren`t even premades involved but in my timezone (EU) Davion got stomped nearly all the time in the first two days.

Just a few %points of better piloting skill and team play can lead to landslide victories, that's FP!

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 06 August 2018 - 10:10 PM.

[Marius Evander]

S O L A I S, on 06 August 2018 - 09:50 PM, said:

Doesn't matter if you have a new and different method to split the queue than the last time... simple answer is the split didn't work and with the low population any new and exciting idea to split the queue will produce the same results.

CW is the restriction free safe zone for groups and units to play together. There needs to be zero pug on pug action. For that there is quick play.

I sadly agree as I have already stated splitting the queue wont work now because our population is too low, Which is why it needs an individual skill similar to SSR (not the time played tier) matchmaking system to reduce stomps, which would work best in a SOLO queue only system. Of course it didn't work when it was impletemented when all the Solo queue players were doing something else. Brand New Scouting Mode.

So it needs to be Groups/units only 2-12 (excluding) 11 person only ?, im sure that will help the queue times excluding the solo queue players......

Fuerchtenichts, on 06 August 2018 - 10:06 PM, said:

I can't see how copying Solo Queue QP will help FP. Just look at the running Davion-Kurita event and people moaning that the teams are not "fairly" setup. In some matches there aren`t even premades involved but in my timezone (EU) Davion got stomped nearly all the time in the first two days.

Just a few %points of better piloting skill and team play can lead to landslide victories, that's FP!

By adding an SSR to it.
Question for you, which mode has more people playing it ?

Edited by Cadoazreal, 06 August 2018 - 10:12 PM.

[iLLcapitan]

Need more people who don't even play the mode regularly to spam 20 posts with their oppinion.

Brown Sea at its best, please discuss.

Leave Boreal alone, its fun to attack and (just a bit) boring to defend if anything.

[Fuerchtenichts]

Cadoazreal, on 06 August 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

Question for you, which mode has more people playing it ?

To be honest I am not looking for the majority of people playing FP, but for those who are willing to play a team orientated game mode. The more you water down the requirements of FP the more toxic behavior you will see in FP. Coming back to the Kurita-Davion event. I have never seen so many players throwing away mechs hurting their team to win the match. I have never seen so many disconnects. I don't need this guys.

[Horseman]

Cadoazreal, on 06 August 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

-"How does making everyone drop solo and removing the reason for units entirely help immersion and faction play having a 'point'?
You still drop for your faction, how you perform effects your specific border, you do mini events like the current one, eveyone ticks which side they want to support without having to up and change loyalty.
How has the current system helped LORE units? The majority of LORE units stopped playing when buckets were merged so activity only effected the Clan/IS borders.

Units are the one thing that still keeps FP going, and are the main way for new players to actually get tutored on how to do FP properly (strategies, builds etc) instead of turning it into casualfest.
You take away the ability to drop with a team in a teamwork-oriented mode, you pretty much kill the mode.

Quote

-"Why should solo players be pandered to in a Group Mode? The whole POINT of Faction Play is Units / Groups / Fighting together etc etc."
Why should they be excluded / turned away by being mashed ? Some people do not have the mechanical skill or patience to git gud, other much more succesful games cater to them as well as the elitists and Flourish.

You don't fix a shark tank by replacing the sharks with piranhas.
Even if you turned FP into a solo pug mode, newbies and casuals would still get rolled by better players. It's not a question of if, but how badly.

Quote

-"And to your point about there never being a FP 'Solo' queue..... there has never been a FP group only queue either.... I could argue just as hard that forcing everyone to group up in order to play FP is better for the game."
Thats very similar to the "only decent players should be playing FP argument,

That is how PGI envisions FP - as an endgame mode. Remove all endgame raids from WOW, what are you left with?

Quote

'-But as Ash Stated above, groups need pugs and pugs need groups. And it makes no sense to talk about splitting the queues once more."
And who keeps playing and who keeps leaving causing this decay in numbers? Groups need pugs, pugs dont need groups, pugs would have a much better time if groups didnt exist in a skill matching SSR not Tier system.

The people who keep leaving are the ones who ignored the warning in the first place and expected FP to be a casual safe zone even though the warning told them in no uncertain terms "tryhard zone, here be dragons".

Quote

-"Focus on the QoL suggestions, the map fixes, the rewards system fixes, game mode fixes etc."
The biggest QOL issue in Faction Play is the 1 sided stomping Seals nature of the game mode. Look at WoW for an example, I KNOW THIS IS NOT W.o.W. but comparisons can be made, vanilla WoW, player numbers were stagnating, Naxxramus/Blackwing Layer too hard for the Majority of players, they Interoduced a heroic and casual mode to their end game content, numbers exploded. Keeping Only Grouped FP stomping taters will only continue to decay the game no matter what other changes you make to FP.

You've got your priorities reversed. FP population isn't high enough for separate queues unless you enjoy only being able to play FP every other Sunday. The population in FP would need to increase substantially FIRST before any matchmaking restrictions can be introduced.

[UnKnownPlayer]

After our unit drop night last night where, as Davion, we got insta drops all night, we REALLY need at least a 2 minute prep timer , ESPECIALLY if there are pugs in the group to help get them oriented. 3 minutes might be better to be honest.

[Bishop Six]

UnKnownPlayer, on 06 August 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

After our unit drop night last night where, as Davion, we got insta drops all night, we REALLY need at least a 2 minute prep timer , ESPECIALLY if there are pugs in the group to help get them oriented. 3 minutes might be better to be honest.

And no time for a toilet break. War is hell.

[it comes with a cup holder]

I'd like to see the following changes/implementations:

- new facton-specific mechs, availabe only in faction play for loyalists, purchasable with loyalty points from faction play store / or gainable after reaching certain rank
- faction play store with all kinds of faction-specifc items such as warhorns, decals, bolt-ons, mechs obtainable with real $ and/or loyalty points
- bring back the queue bar, showing how many people are droping at the time for better time mangement/prevent wasting time
- increase in allowed tonnage if dropping solo / or decrease in tonnage for groups
- remove incursion from faction play
- remove tourmaline desert (the map is too small, or at least change spawn points)

[Marius Evander]

Horseman, on 06 August 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

Spoiler

Units are the one thing that still keeps FP going, and are the main way for new players to actually get tutored on how to do FP properly (strategies, builds etc) instead of turning it into casualfest.
You take away the ability to drop with a team in a teamwork-oriented mode, you pretty much kill the mode.
You don't fix a shark tank by replacing the sharks with piranhas.
Even if you turned FP into a solo pug mode, newbies and casuals would still get rolled by better players. It's not a question of if, but how badly.

That is how PGI envisions FP - as an endgame mode. Remove all endgame raids from WOW, what are you left with?
The people who keep leaving are the ones who ignored the warning in the first place and expected FP to be a casual safe zone even though the warning told them in no uncertain terms "tryhard zone, here be dragons".
You've got your priorities reversed. FP population isn't high enough for separate queues unless you enjoy only being able to play FP every other Sunday. The population in FP would need to increase substantially FIRST before any matchmaking restrictions can be introduced.

-Make the highest SSR person in the drop the drop caller, they can tick they dont want to and next highest is selected onwards.
-They would get rolled less SSR matches would be closer.
-Endgame mode has a casual friendly and heroic mode in most successful games, creating content for a elitist ever shriking small % of your playerbase who are the majority of forum posters is unsustainable.
-The people who keep leaving are the battletech fans who wanted lore and close fights with joysticks and stock builds, you add an SSR their rating will drop low enough they could play their stock battles.
-This is a never ending DOWNWARD cycle until you seperate queue's to show people something has changed, at which point if queue times can be kept low enough with events we might drag ourselves out of this sinking playerbase.

Fuerchtenichts, on 06 August 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

To be honest I am not looking for the majority of people playing FP, but for those who are willing to play a team orientated game mode. The more you water down the requirements of FP the more toxic behavior you will see in FP. Coming back to the Kurita-Davion event. I have never seen so many players throwing away mechs hurting their team to win the match. I have never seen so many disconnects. I don't need this guys.

SSR they will drop below your games.

[Bishop Six]

Cadoazreal, on 07 August 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

-Make the highest SSR person in the drop the drop caller, they can tick they dont want to and next highest is selected onwards.
-They would get rolled less SSR matches would be closer.
-Endgame mode has a casual friendly and heroic mode in most successful games, creating content for a elitist ever shriking small % of your playerbase who are the majority of forum posters is unsustainable.
-The people who keep leaving are the battletech fans who wanted lore and close fights with joysticks and stock builds, you add an SSR their rating will drop low enough they could play their stock battles.
-This is a never ending DOWNWARD cycle until you seperate queue's to show people something has changed, at which point if queue times can be kept low enough with events we might drag ourselves out of this sinking playerbase.


SSR they will drop below your games.

Cado, i like you and your efforts for being productive. But please reduce your amount of postings here. i guess 5 pages are useless in this Thread already because of spamming and discussing not-topic-related-stuff.

Tbh, your are only 1 guy, not the majority. Please focus on small (!) improvemetns for FP to start with and don't try to totally change the game mode, because this won't happen. Please do not make things too complicated for Paul.

Imo you already put in your suggestions here like i did and others too. Thats it. Wait for it. No need to repeat your opinion on every page. Like i said, your are 1 guy. I am 1 guy. You did suggestions, i did as well. Now let the other people speak here with PAUL, not with you all the time.

[Horseman]

Cadoazreal, on 07 August 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:

-Make the highest SSR person in the drop the drop caller, they can tick they dont want to and next highest is selected onwards.

High personal skill does not equal competence at drop calling.

Quote

-Endgame mode has a casual friendly and heroic mode in most successful games,

This is a niche game, and FP's current queue situation (before current event) could take 20-30 minutes to find a match on some days.
There's no real difficulty control in a PVP environment with population so low that you have to toss all players together into one queue just to get any matches going.

Quote

-This is a never ending DOWNWARD cycle until you seperate queue's to show people something has changed, at which point if queue times can be kept low enough with events we might drag ourselves out of this sinking playerbase.

Queue separation would just accelerate the downward spiral because nobody would be able to get a match outside of peak hours. Why are you refusing to process this?

Quote

creating content for a elitist ever shriking small % of your playerbase who are the majority of forum posters is unsustainable.

FP is approachable to around 50% of MWO's player base - if they're willing to take the step of actually preparing for the mode. Been there, done that.

Edited by Horseman, 07 August 2018 - 01:00 AM.

[Marius Evander]

Bishop Six, on 07 August 2018 - 12:35 AM, said:

Spoiler

Cado, i like you and your efforts for being productive. But please reduce your amount of postings here. i guess 5 pages are useless in this Thread already because of spamming and discussing not-topic-related-stuff.

Tbh, your are only 1 guy, not the majority. Please focus on small (!) improvemetns for FP to start with and don't try to totally change the game mode, because this won't happen. Please do not make things too complicated for Paul.

Imo you already put in your suggestions here like i did and others too. Thats it. Wait for it. No need to repeat your opinion on every page. Like i said, your are 1 guy. I am 1 guy. You did suggestions, i did as well. Now let the other people speak here with PAUL, not with you all the time.

Wont post anymore in thread, just hope Paul realises the majority of Posts in the Thread are the skilled 5% of seal clubbing playerbase, not the casual majority who don't have time to read and discuss on forums but are the ones who fill the event queue's, you can go back to infinite wait time queues with a 45 degree ramp/wall or encourage the majority of more casual players.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 07 August 2018 - 01:28 AM.

[Paul Inouye]

Cato Zilks, on 04 August 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

I am going to discuss the game, but I don't think razzing Paul for using the wrong vowel is going to dissuade him from interacting.

That's it. I'm done. BYE!



hahahah

[Paul Inouye]

C H E E K I E Z, on 06 August 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

Just reposting since it's mondays and old if Paul Wil read 7 pages back

I know how to use and read the intertweetermugbook.

[McGoat]

Cadoazreal, on 07 August 2018 - 12:59 AM, said:

Wont post anymore in thread

Thank heavens

[Kurbeks]

Cadoazreal, on 04 August 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

LATER THAT WEEK AT PGI HQ



A FEW MONTHS LATER




MORE SIMPLE "SOLUTION" IF YOU REFUSE TO DO SOLO AND GROUPED QUEUE.




MORE COMPLEX, IM DREAMING, SOLUTION.

Best Paint job 4ever

[Daurock]

I saw a thought on the another thread, and am curious enough to re-post it here, to see if it is something that the developers could actually do.

What if the Faction MM worked somewhat like the one in solaris, waiting for 5-10 minutes between "Drops," before making games? (with a countdown timer, etc.)

Let's assume the MM grabbed as many of the "Largest" groups on each side of the pile every ten minutes as could fit into the first game, forming teams around them, and then worked in the smaller groups into each successive game. In theory, that'd put the big groups fighting the biggest ones available, and the smaller and middle sized people fighting each other as well. It probably would do as good a job as possible of segregating the "pugs' from the "premades" without resorting to forcing team matching, and/or dramatically lengthening wait times.

Could a Large group sync-drop? (as either individuals, or even as 2 or 3 medium-large sized groups?) Sure, but instead of dropping as one team, they'd have a high chance to be spread out into multiple matches, filling out other groups on their own side that joined in the same window. Now they'd be facing the same opposing groups, but with only half the team a known value. If they drop as a pair of 6s or similar, half may well get to stomp some pugs, but the other half may very well see an opposing 12 man, and get hammered just as badly because they're missing half their own team. Instead, hopefully that large group would probably prefer to keep the main force together as a unit. (And in doing so, facing the largest opposing unit that signed up in that 10 minute window.)

While I don't think it would solve all problems, (especially on off hours, where they may not even be enough players to create 1 full game) I do think it would at least start to ease some of the pug/premade stryfe, and maybe even create better games to boot.

Edited by Daurock, 07 August 2018 - 11:55 AM.

[B0oN]

Cadoazreal, on 07 August 2018 - 12:59 AM, said:

Wont post anymore in thread, just hope Paul realises the majority of Posts in the Thread are the skilled 5% of seal clubbing playerbase, not the casual majority who don't have time to read and discuss on forums but are the ones who fill the event queue's, you can go back to infinite wait time queues with a 45 degree ramp/wall or encourage the majority of more casual players.

The "casual majority" (your terminology, more to that later), which has shown time and time again, that it is extremely oriented towards short-term ez-mode gratification and not teamworking has lost nothing in FP .
If you really think those people don´t have time for getting informed/joining a TS to get informed (which amounts to an investment of about an hour or so if your not being a plain learning-resilient person), then why the heck are they even wasting their time with a game in the first place ? Seemingly they don´t have enough time to be playing games at all and need to be hard at work in the real world .

No pandering to the anti-teamworkers that you so leisurely call "casuals", which is a gross misnomer per sé .
A casual player is not automatically a bad player . MW:O has taken a step down on my games priority-list just because it got so boring, making me into a casual MW:O player,yet I am still an adequate meatshield and sometimes even a proper damage dealer in FP .

Cado, you really need to learn who to protect, the true "casuals" or the "anti-teamworking crowd", the differences are there and should be easily decipherable, especially for a man of your game-time and experience . Right now it sounds to me as if you were actively defending the "anti-teamworking crowd" which I find absolutely unbearable .

Edited by B0oN, 07 August 2018 - 10:34 AM.

[Lotspeech]

A rank to play faction play sounds like a great idea to me, pleaty of other games do this with. There competitive solo queue modes and it works very well. I would say that no one should be allowed to play faction till they hit tier 3. Also this would give new players incentive to play this because I for one love the Mistical new modes that I unlock while playing. Also it gives a meaning full sense of progression, like most players will feel like there getting better now that the game is allowing them to play a new mode