42 replies to this topic

[Phoenix 72]

I just checked my stats for last season.

Sorted by average matchscore, I am position 1351 for medium mechs. With a 0.8 win/loss ratio. Ouch. Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

[Imperius]

Not trying to come off rude but that usually signals the issue is your own performance.

[Eisenhorne]

Imperius, on 02 August 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Not trying to come off rude but that usually signals the issue is your own performance.

It signals that you're doing lots of damage without effectively helping the team.

Possible causes include:

1 ) Not being aggressive enough to share armor. Your entire team dies well before you, you're the last guy left, and you're fresh because you were hanging far back behind the team and letting them fight while you did a little damage at a time over the course of the fight.

2 ) Not landing kill shots effectively. If you are blowing off arms / legs / side torsos all the time, and very rarely landing kill shots, you're doing a decent amount of damage, but not very quickly removing enemy mechs from the battlefield, so they can keep fighting and killing your team.

3) Using LRMs exclusively, but not doing obscene amounts of damage. If you're doing 800-900 damage per match with LRM's, you'll have a match score of like 450, and will be crushing enemies faces in. If you're only doing 400-500 damage, you're not doing enough damage with LRM's to effectively end enemies.

4) Using AMS to boost match score. AMS is not very helpful against dedicated LRM boats (with 80 tubes), and supplementary LRM mechs ( with like 30 tubes) aren't enough of a threat to warrant so much AMS.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Darakor Stormwind, on 02 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

You represent 1/24th, or 4%, of whether you won or lost any given match. The number in the Win/Loss Ratio is a measure of the relative quality of who you played with vs. who you played against. It means that on average they had better teams than you did and played against relatively worse teams. W/L reflects very little of a players ability.

Yes, if you are very good you can increase that percentage, but for the most part the outcome of each match is more in the hands of the other players (+90%) than it is in yours. Put a top Tier player in with potatoes and they're going to lose vs. a team of average players.

Sadly, PGI does not know this and have based the vast majority of Your PSR score used by their Match Maker on if you won the game or not. This is the major reason their Match Maker cannot make balanced matches.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Imperius, on 02 August 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Not trying to come off rude but that usually signals the issue is your own performance.

So his stats are good, but his win/loss is poor..... your logic is carry harder ????

ShaneoftheDead, on 02 August 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

You represent 1/24th, or 4%, of whether you won or lost any given match. The number in the Win/Loss Ratio is a measure of the relative quality of who you played with vs. who you played against. It means that on average they had better teams than you did and played against relatively worse teams. W/L reflects very little of a players ability.

Yes, if you are very good you can increase that percentage, but for the most part the outcome of each match is more in the hands of the other players (+90%) than it is in yours. Put a top Tier player in with potatoes and they're going to lose vs. a team of average players.

Sadly, PGI does not know this and have based the vast majority of Your PSR score used by their Match Maker on if you won the game or not. This is the major reason their Match Maker cannot make balanced matches.

This makes perfect sense.

[Nightbird]

ShaneoftheDead, on 02 August 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

You represent 1/24th, or 4%, of whether you won or lost any given match. The number in the Win/Loss Ratio is a measure of the relative quality of who you played with vs. who you played against. It means that on average they had better teams than you did and played against relatively worse teams. W/L reflects very little of a players ability.

Yes, if you are very good you can increase that percentage, but for the most part the outcome of each match is more in the hands of the other players (+90%) than it is in yours. Put a top Tier player in with potatoes and they're going to lose vs. a team of average players.

Sadly, PGI does not know this and have based the vast majority of Your PSR score used by their Match Maker on if you won the game or not. This is the major reason their Match Maker cannot make balanced matches.

Not true at all, I can get 3:1 win loss over 100 game in solo QP if I try hard. If 96% of win loss depended on the team, deviating this much from 1:1 is impossible.

[Eisenhorne]

Nightbird, on 02 August 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

Not true at all, I can get 3:1 win loss over 100 game in solo QP if I try hard. If 96% of win loss depended on the team, deviating this much from 1:1 is impossible.

Well yea.. you're only worth 4% if you only do the bare minimum of carrying your weight. Like, if you do 300 damage and get 1 kill, then yes 96% of the win/loss relies on your team.

If you're doing 900 damage and getting 6 kills, then you're effectively making up for any bad players, and probably like 30% responsible for the win/loss instead of only 4% responsible. If you have 1-2 other competent players on your team, or your enemy's potatoes are just as bad as your potatoes and they don't have an equally skilled player, you just swung the game massively in your favor.

I'm more of a potato than Nightbird, but with my Tryhard assault mechs I can get a 2.0 W/L going, and last season I got to like 1.6 W/L just by being a lurmtard with all lrm assault boats. You can easily swing the w/l ratio in your favor by doing so well you count as more than one player.

[Jman5]

Darakor Stormwind, on 02 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

I just checked my stats for last season.

Sorted by average matchscore, I am position 1351 for medium mechs. With a 0.8 win/loss ratio. Ouch. Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

We can't know without seeing you and those ranked the same as you play some matches. If it's any consolation the difference between your losing record this season and a winning record was 6 games. If you had turned just 6 out of 55 losses around you would have had a positive WLR this season. Conversely, last season you had a 1.31 WLR yet if you had lost 7 of the 51 wins your WLR would have gone into the negatives.

Unless you play a lot of matches in a season there is usually only a handful of games between a positive WLR and a negative one.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Nightbird, on 02 August 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

Not true at all, I can get 3:1 win loss over 100 game in solo QP if I try hard. If 96% of win loss depended on the team, deviating this much from 1:1 is impossible.

I said Top tier with potatoes. I doubt you dropped with potatoes. The W/L ratio can reach 3:1 in the case you present, but it might as easily be 2:1 if you catch more bad teammates. Your play is unchanged, but the outcome is changed based on others.

[Nightbird]

I never argue with people that can't maff :thumbsup:

Edited by Nightbird, 02 August 2018 - 01:03 PM.

[dario03]

Group and solo can make that happen. Play in nothing but big groups and get a great w/l but your matchscore might not be all that great.

[Ruccus]

Darakor Stormwind, on 02 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

I just checked my stats for last season.

Sorted by average matchscore, I am position 1351 for medium mechs. With a 0.8 win/loss ratio. Ouch. Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

Just looking at your last season's medium mech stats, in my opinion you don't die enough so you're likely playing your matches too safe. You've got 55 losses and 60 deaths, which means you were likely alive in 35 to 39 of your 44 wins. Medium mechs aren't supposed to survive until the end of the match, they're supposed to be alongside the heavy mechs and take alphas from the enemy heavies and assaults (which generally hurts).

Last season my medium mech stats were 38 wins, 30 losses, 45 kills, and 50 deaths with an average 265 match score. I don't recall losing without dying last month so that means I was alive at the end of only 18 of my 38 wins, but I always try to make my death mean something. I mentioned in another thread about rushing a pair of LRM assaults in my Hunchback IIC - I died and I knew I was going to die that match the second I chose to rush the first mech, but I honestly believed doing it would help my team win the match. It took them long enough to kill me that the rest of my team was able to close on the LRM boats and start a roll that the other team couldn't stop.

Sometimes a player has to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team. If they don't the team starts backing away and scattering and the roll is on. You'd be surprised at what happens when you refuse to start backing up against an enemy push. When the team sees that idiot in a Bushwacker (me) push back against a Mad Cat Mk2 they think 'I can get a few hits on that assault while it's killing the Bushwacker' and soon my alphas combined with the alphas of my teammates behind is enough to kill the assault without me dying - and now we're up an assault and in a better position for the rest of the match even though my mech might get destroyed by the next stiff breeze. And even if the assault takes me out our team traded a medium mech for an enemy assault - still a decent deal in my mind.

I admit I am a very aggressive player but it works for me; I will always support a heavy or assault that calls for a push even if my mech is hurting. I've never thought the objective of MWO was to stay alive, I've always enjoyed more of the movement on the battlefield with the fighting and battling until I'm dead and think that's more important that kills and deaths.

So my suggestion for season 25 is to try to take more risks and don't be afraid to die if you think it'll help your team.

[The Teddy Bear]

Darakor Stormwind, on 02 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

I just checked my stats for last season.

Sorted by average matchscore, I am position 1351 for medium mechs. With a 0.8 win/loss ratio. Ouch. Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

If you drop solo you need to get at least 300 ms at an average if you want to consistanly go over 1.0 in W/L. At least thats my experience. Even then you will some seasons come in below that level. Prolly RNG and temporary events impacting on this. Even playing only weekends can prolly make you W/L jump quite a bit.

Also players in group que are in the same board as you which makes it very hard to compare players using W/L. Probably to the degree that the measure becomes in general useless without comparing other data as well.

[Ghogiel]

ShaneoftheDead, on 02 August 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

You represent 1/24th, or 4%, of whether you won or lost any given match. The number in the Win/Loss Ratio is a measure of the relative quality of who you played with vs. who you played against. It means that on average they had better teams than you did and played against relatively worse teams. W/L reflects very little of a players ability.

Yes, if you are very good you can increase that percentage, but for the most part the outcome of each match is more in the hands of the other players (+90%) than it is in yours. Put a top Tier player in with potatoes and they're going to lose vs. a team of average players.

Sadly, PGI does not know this and have based the vast majority of Your PSR score used by their Match Maker on if you won the game or not. This is the major reason their Match Maker cannot make balanced matches.

In MWO it's not a set of random factors that determine a players W/L over a large sample size.

[Tarl Cabot]

It is not just about MS and the damage output, it is also about how you interact with your team and your team interacts with you. For some who say they do well in SOLO queue they may post their MS and such, but it is everything a person where the sum is greater than all of the parts.

[Yosharian]

Your stats are nowhere near as important as video evidence of you losing games.

If you want to improve, provide video evidence.

Otherwise, you're going to get a bunch of random pieces of advice that most likely won't help you at all.

If you have an NVIDIA card it's as easy as pressing a button. Then uploading to YouTube takes 10-15 minutes. Easy. Or you could stream on Twitch, that's easy too.

It's much easier to post a thread on here, listen to some people saying random ****, tell yourself that you've somehow improved or done as much as you can to improve, and carry on playing MWO and not improve in the slightest.

Another option could be to group up with someone better than you but group queue presents its own challenges.

Edited by Yosharian, 02 August 2018 - 03:04 PM.

[Star Dust]

Darakor Stormwind, on 02 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

I just checked my stats for last season.

Sorted by average matchscore, I am position 1351 for medium mechs. With a 0.8 win/loss ratio. Ouch. Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

If you solo queue much more often than team queue that may be a contributing factor.

The seasons where I team queued often with a couple other decent pilots I had substantially better WLR stats. Even made it to top assault pilot by stats for most of it (until dethroned by EMP team drops at the last minute lol).

The seasons where I mostly solo queue (like now) my win rate goes down with still decent KDR's.

[jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ]

I'm rank 22 with a 0.9 W/L apparently. I guess the bar is incredibly low with a playerbase this small.

Edited by jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ, 02 August 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Racerxintegra2k, on 02 August 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

So his stats are good, but his win/loss is poor..... your logic is carry harder ????



This makes perfect sense.

... No. Lol. In what world does that make sense? A w/l ratio less than 1 means that you consistently failed to live up to the Match Maker's expectations, and if it had any say you would be dumped down a tier.

[Appogee]

Darakor Stormwind, on 02 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

I just checked my stats for last season.

Sorted by average matchscore, I am position 1351 for medium mechs. With a 0.8 win/loss ratio. Ouch. Why do so many people with the same average match score have much better win/loss ratios?

How many matches have you played?

Last season my win:loss was only 0.5 after 50 matches (!) before climbing up to its usual 1.3 after several hundred matches.

My personal stats (ie average match score and k:d) usually rank me much higher than my overall win:loss. I don't know why that is. I'm usually doing top or top-three damage and kills in most PUG matches.

I guess part of it might be players who usually play in group queue with a strong team of friends who benefit from consistent wins. But I don't know.

Maybe Beelzebub has a devil set aside for me, for me, for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Edited by Appogee, 02 August 2018 - 05:11 PM.