152 replies to this topic

[SFC174]

Rafe Yomin, on 16 August 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

We just don't have the population for an actual rank system. I'm in T3 and when i play i am in T1 matches a lot. This shows me that any ranking system will fail. It already needs to go to the maximum the system can go during EU evenings/nights, and go outside of the bracket is normally should find a match.

Ranking doesn't mean you shouldn't have to play against better players. It just means you should equal amounts of skill on both sides. Right now it might be you (Tier3) and a bunch of Tier 1 players with 250 avg match score against a team with 2-3 guys that average 400+ match score but are also ranked Tier 1 (which is all the MM sees).

Those high skill players should be split as evenly as possible between the teams. When this is done correctly, several things can happen. Those high skill players can offset each other, and you, the lowly (sarc) Tier 3 can actually swing the game if you play well. Or one team can be successful in focusing down the high skill player on the opposition early, allowing their high skill player free reign to wreak havoc. It doesn't mean stomps won't still happen, but the odds of a close game go up a lot due to evenly matched (as much as possible) skill sets.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

C337Skymaster, on 10 August 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Ash: Stock loadouts. Flavor. Soul. Bringing 2 Heavy Large and 6 ERMed on every single platform that has, or can have, 8 energy hardpoints isn't fun. It strips the life and soul out of the game.

I run stock builds because that's the soul of Battletech. Each loadout has its own meaning and purpose, and I endeavour to use them for their stated purpose.

Now, it's true: I've mastered all of the good ones, and am on to the sucky ones, but even those can perform admirably in the proper environment and in a well-balanced match. My stock 'mech that still has its stock rear armor (which has successfully surprised more than one sneaky back-stabber, by the way) can't stand up to two hellbringers with the loadout I mentioned above. Not much can. I don't want to chase the meta. I want to play the game, and understand the fictional engineers who built the 'mechs the way they did. Plus the added challenge of doing well in a crap build.

But again, there's a difference between 10-48, and 30-48, or 40-48. My use of stock loadouts might be blamed for a 40-48 match. Even a 30-48 match. But there's WAY more going on in a 10-48 match than the weapons I brought and my armor configuration.

you not understand the Difference between Pen & paper with Dices and No Mech Forces and a real Time Fight Game with only Mechs and no combined Arms

Stock Layouts ...the most concepts for Fights against No mech troops as Low Products for Planets thats only have Conventional Forces.
The most Mechs in BT cruefull and only the Luck of Dice give this bad Designs a Chance ..looking to hollander or Firestarter (here no Forrests to burn or Infantry ) while the Pilots not can aim (oh the Dice say im hit the right Feet from the Shutdown Mech 30m away and miss the 10 m tall Mech thats run in 100m with slow 65kmh)
You will use Stock Mechs ? than better playing against AI Bots and Dices...thats like a D&D Pen and Paper player thats will use his Wooden stick in a Real Swordfight with nothing experience and Training

[Rafe Yomin]

SFC174, on 16 August 2018 - 03:17 AM, said:

Ranking doesn't mean you shouldn't have to play against better players. It just means you should equal amounts of skill on both sides. Right now it might be you (Tier3) and a bunch of Tier 1 players with 250 avg match score against a team with 2-3 guys that average 400+ match score but are also ranked Tier 1 (which is all the MM sees).

Those high skill players should be split as evenly as possible between the teams. When this is done correctly, several things can happen. Those high skill players can offset each other, and you, the lowly (sarc) Tier 3 can actually swing the game if you play well. Or one team can be successful in focusing down the high skill player on the opposition early, allowing their high skill player free reign to wreak havoc. It doesn't mean stomps won't still happen, but the odds of a close game go up a lot due to evenly matched (as much as possible) skill sets.

Yes, but that's not the way it works. That's how it should work with enough playerbase and an actual PSR which is anything other than an xp bar which generally goes up for everyone. But the way it works, is it looks for people in own tier first, then if it doesn't find enough people, it goes to widen the search. Then if not enough are found widens to the 2 tier difference possibility. That i regularly find myself in T1 matches, means there are very few T4-T3-T2 players. This is indicative of player numbers. During prime time for EU and US, i don't find matches in my own brackets. Think on that and how it means player numbers are.

Under the circumstances we have now:
QP: waittimes on the longer end.
GQ: waittimes long till very long.
FP: terrible wait times.
Solaris: terrible wait times unless you want to fight the same guy for a couple of times in a row.

In all modes if you requeue immediately, or shortly after a match end, you'll get the same players, even during the prime playing hours.

The only thing accomplished by this bribing of people to go play FP leads to long waittimes for FP (which is better than terrible wait times), but QP and GQ are now much longer waits too. And new players will only have QP and GQ modes as possibilities, unless you want players in FP with stock unskilled trial mechs.

Personally i have no interest in FP. Even if i did, i have 4 mechs: Kit fox, Arctic cheetah, Nova(c) (since it was free anyway) and a Shadowcat. Does this sound like a dropdeck which would be helpfull? No, it does not. Scouting mode is 4v4 in lights and some mediums. I want to be in an actual match with different weight classes, so that leaves group or quickplay which basically gets ruined for me by events like bribing players to go play another mode than what they want. The wait times have made sure that i didn't attempt to play another match during the event, and basically means that i just went to other games where i can actually play.

Edited by Rafe Yomin, 16 August 2018 - 06:13 AM.

[SFC174]

Rafe Yomin, on 16 August 2018 - 06:11 AM, said:

Yes, but that's not the way it works. That's how it should work with enough playerbase and an actual PSR which is anything other than an xp bar which generally goes up for everyone. But the way it works, is it looks for people in own tier first, then if it doesn't find enough people, it goes to widen the search. Then if not enough are found widens to the 2 tier difference possibility. That i regularly find myself in T1 matches, means there are very few T4-T3-T2 players. This is indicative of player numbers. During prime time for EU and US, i don't find matches in my own brackets. Think on that and how it means player numbers are.

Under the circumstances we have now:
QP: waittimes on the longer end.
GQ: waittimes long till very long.
FP: terrible wait times.
Solaris: terrible wait times unless you want to fight the same guy for a couple of times in a row.

In all modes if you requeue immediately, or shortly after a match end, you'll get the same players, even during the prime playing hours.

The only thing accomplished by this bribing of people to go play FP leads to long waittimes for FP (which is better than terrible wait times), but QP and GQ are now much longer waits too. And new players will only have QP and GQ modes as possibilities, unless you want players in FP with stock unskilled trial mechs.

Personally i have no interest in FP. Even if i did, i have 4 mechs: Kit fox, Arctic cheetah, Nova(c) (since it was free anyway) and a Shadowcat. Does this sound like a dropdeck which would be helpfull? No, it does not. Scouting mode is 4v4 in lights and some mediums. I want to be in an actual match with different weight classes, so that leaves group or quickplay which basically gets ruined for me by events like bribing players to go play another mode than what they want. The wait times have made sure that i didn't attempt to play another match during the event, and basically means that i just went to other games where i can actually play.

Player base size is less important than a proper ranking system. PSR, as you have noted, is not a ranking system. We need a proper system that is zero sum (meaning if someone goes up, someone else goes down). It would be even better if it were mech specific, but that is too much to ask.

Even if we ranked people by average match score we'd have a much better matchmaker than we have right now, and with as few as 200 players in the queue we could get much better team optimization.

My point is, we do have a big enough population for a proper ranking system to work because there is nothing wrong with having a wide range of player skill in the same match - as long as it is balanced.

I do agree though that bribing players into modes they don't normally play is not conducive to the health of the game. I don't care for FP either and my playtime has gone down substantially during the recent faction events because SoloQ wait times have gone way up.

[Dragonporn]

Actually it could work. Just ditch Tier system entirely and make matchmaker sort people by average match score, while it should do its best to have even sums on both sides. PSR possibly won't get any improvements and reset, because it gonna cause pretty hardcore mess (especially for new/less skilled players) for a long time and seems like PGI won't bother, but match score system could eventually work for QP/GP and FP at the same time and is not ideal but possible and somewhat easy solution, no?

[MW Waldorf Statler]

nothing can help this game in this Status ...its only a Play between the Old Fan Players and Groups thats plays this game to the end of the server and PGI and the new "One Month Goldfishes" and Gametrolls ...its the last Phase of the Game ,all others leave or plays 1-5 Games all 6 Months and crying of the the Horrible Playstyle of the most kids thats trys MWO

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 16 August 2018 - 10:42 PM.

[Commando522]

Honestly this game has become unbearable.

You either play solo QP or have to join a giant unit to have fun.

Playing with 1 friend and not getting BS stomped is impossible and it sucks the life out of every match and just makes me want to quit the whole game.

[Grus]

Toothless, on 05 August 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

Russ says a lot of things.

some sober and some not...

[Eisenhorne]

Commando522, on 20 August 2018 - 05:12 PM, said:

Honestly this game has become unbearable.

You either play solo QP or have to join a giant unit to have fun.

Playing with 1 friend and not getting BS stomped is impossible and it sucks the life out of every match and just makes me want to quit the whole game.

Yup, sounds like you understand. It's a 12v12 team game... join a team, or stick with the other people who want to solo pug.

[Sneaky Ohgoorchik]

Eisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

Yup, sounds like you understand. It's a 12v12 team game... join a team, or stick with the other people who want to solo pug.

FP is the most exciting game mod for me so far. Im solo pug and i still enjoy it. QP, on the other hand, is just a chill mode. I do believe, that devs need to encourage FP activity. I believe, that allowing mixed clan-is decks and removing the galactic map and sides would do.

FP as it is has too much frustation and bad mechanics on the galactic map side. New players just hurt themselves chosing some of FP options.

[Commando522]

Eisenhorne, on 20 August 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

Yup, sounds like you understand. It's a 12v12 team game... join a team, or stick with the other people who want to solo pug.

Issue is, I can't recommend this game to any friends either, because I can't play with them especially if they're new comers.

The game's mechanics make it nearly impossible for players to bring new comers in through word of mouth and to play with them without getting clubbed 90% of the time which will only result in the new comer deciding the game isn't worth it.

[Eisenhorne]

Commando522, on 21 August 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Issue is, I can't recommend this game to any friends either, because I can't play with them especially if they're new comers.

The game's mechanics make it nearly impossible for players to bring new comers in through word of mouth and to play with them without getting clubbed 90% of the time which will only result in the new comer deciding the game isn't worth it.

Ideally, you're part of a unit or group that drops regularly. So you ask them if you can bring your new friend. If your group is strong enough, carrying 3-4 new players to victory isn't an issue, and if it's a friend of yours, he's unlikely to be abrasive and caustic to the rest of the group, so he's still better than the average pug player who will pigheadedly insist he's right and the world is wrong when he tries to bring LRM's to Grim Portico.

[Tarl Cabot]

https://mwomercs.com...on-aug-20-2018/

I like what was mentioned in the follow up podcast....now lets see them bring some of to the game...

Quote

• 1.2 Creating a singular queue system
  
• Faction Play queues will be merged into one single queue.
  
• Matches will kick off every [2] minutes.
  
• All Solo/Group players will be placed into this new singular queue.
  
• When the 2 minute launch timer runs out, the Match Maker uses a priority algorithm to create teams.
  
• 
  
• 1.2.1 Prioritization Algorithm
  
• The Match Maker should sort the queue by group size and temporarily ignore Solo players.
  
• First priority is filling teams based on group size.
  
• Biggest groups should be placed on opposing teams in sequential order.
  
• If a group doesn’t fit in a group match, a new match will be created.
  
• This will continue until no more groups are in a free state in the queue.
  
• Filling matches with Solo players
  
• The Match Maker should now sort all Solo players by their SSR rating.
  
• The Match Maker starts filling slots from the biggest group match to the smallest.
  
• The Match Maker should alternate placing Solo players from top to bottom in terms of SSR rating.
  
• If there are no further group matches available, a match will be created using the remaining solo players.
  
• If there are not enough solo players remaining for a match, they will be queued for the next match kick off in [2] minutes with priority placement above all other solo players entering the queue.