605 replies to this topic

[Paul Inouye]

Balance Podcast - Aug 2018:
Soundcloud: NGNG Podcast 165 - Balance with Chris Lowrey and Paul Inouye
YouTube: No Guts No Galaxy #165: Balance and PTS w/ Paul Inouye & Chris Lowrey

- Thanks Daeron/Phil of NGNG for getting this done

Opening comms for game balance:

Okay folks, after running 2 PTS builds and monitoring data and feedback, you may have seen that we are not using the numbers that were used with either of the builds. That doesn’t mean that the general direction was off target, just that the numbers used to get targeted data were both extreme and placed in areas that might not get us what we need.

I’d like to take a moment to address what exactly is going on with balance. These initial PTSs were about what I addressed in my initial balance post; the high alpha damage and subsequently the high Clan ‘laser vomit’ happening in the game. It is this focus that we’ve been working on in these initial PTS builds (known as PTS 1.0 and PTS 1.1).

The change to balance concerning the alpha/laser issue was in the right direction, but the numbers used were of concern and there are other factors that must come into play if we do move in this direction. The 94 alpha that we are very concerned about cannot be reduced in a significant way without these extreme numbers. That being said, having to go to these extreme values is causing a net change that is not favorable both internally and publicly which means that we will be looking at other avenues to address the situation. We may use numbers from the PTS that reduce this 94 alpha to something like 90 (EXAMPLE NUMBER ONLY) instead of trying to get it to 80 or some other drastic number. After that change is made, we will be looking at other possible means to go from the example 90 to something lower.

All of that being said, we are also very aware of what will need to be done to IS armor quirks, light/med energy quirks, assault level agility quirks, bringing lower performing weapons upward etc.

Below is a TL;DR of the podcast and what was discussed and what we’re looking at in terms of dealing with the issues above as well as changes that we will be addressing in the near future. Chris and myself will be monitoring this thread continually and will be commenting when and where we can. Much like the current FP feedback thread going on over here, I want to make sure the discussion is casual/productive and less ‘corporate’.

Podcast Summary:


Disscussion Venues:
• The Official Forums the best place to relay any type of feedback for this discussion. Not Reddit or Twitter.
• With the release of the podcast we will be opening up a forum thread to start the overall discussion.
• For things such as balance there are multiple eyes involved in the decision making process that monitor the forums that will not see various Twitter / Reddit threads.
• If you have an opinion, posting in the forums ensures the most amount of internal eyes see the discussion.

PTS:
• PTS stands for Public TEST Server. Heavy emphasis on the word test.
• PTS's primary purpose is for testing, feedback, and data collection.
• The values that are put up on PTS are never what are considered final "release state" values.
• Values tested on PTS are often on the high spectrum of values that are under investigation for changes. And are often set to monitor for breakpoints, player behavior, and in game behavior under the testing values.

Balance:
• Focused balance passes. Not global balance passes.
• Current focus is on the 94 efficient alpha and the discrepancy between Clan and IS laser vomit performance against one another.
• Just because that is our core focus does not make it our sole focus.
• Intent is not to smash the Clans down, we know that addressing certain things on the Clan side it will put other things under the microscope.
• One instance of this is Inner Sphere defensive quirks which will come under scrutiny if we where to move forward with some of the things tested in PTS.
• Its not about attacking any individual builds so much as what is around that can effectively counterplay around the heavy performers.
• We know that the skilled players will always find a way to get similar performance out of the high performing 'Mechs with slight loadout alterations. This is fine.
• The example of a Deathstrike simply moving over to 3 Large Lasers Plus Gauss and Medium lasers getting the same kind of performance is not seen as undesired on our end as that performance becomes more contingent on playing into a certain role.
• Yes, the Deathstrike with 3 Large Lasers got better at specifically long range engagements, but it did so at the cost of its overall speed, its sustained heat efficiency, and its overall per-alpha damage output. All of which came down. And all of which makes it more venerable to other types of play styles that have more close range sustainability compared to the current builds you typically see it bring on live.
• One of the core balance points that has to be under observation in MWO is the spread between 20 to 100 ton 'Mechs and the capabilities that they bring to the table.
• Global weapon increases tend to favor the heavier classes of 'Mechs. Buffs to AC/20's and Gauss rifles would buff Heavy and Assault 'Mechs, but would not benefit any 'Mech under 50 tons which can lead to further widening of the divide between the capabilities of 'Mechs throughout the 'Mech roster.
• Lasers aren't being targeted because they are the considered the highest performers so much that there is a clear rift in viability of energy centric load-outs between the IS and the Clan side.
• It has never been the intention of MWO online to have Time to Kill in a state where you can destroy a mech in only a handful of shots.
• Will not be blindly balancing upwards to meet Clan Laser vomit without proper give/take and taking into consideration all other areas of balance.
• While upwards trajectories always sound good, there are consequences that would massively disrupt other states of play within the game. Such as massively buffing armor to compete against higher alphas out of heavy and assault 'Mechs, but then light on light mech gameplay would take forever to whittle through all of the armor with low weapon counts and high armor values.
• Any change that comes from PTS will not be a one sided change. We will be examining other attributes from both sides of the faction spectrum.
• Engine de-sync did what it was designed to do.
• Engine de-sync was never designed to replicate the old 'Mech mastery system, but replace the baseline attributes prior to skill investment. (So a 'Mech with zero experience under the older system.)
• Some Heavies and Assaults on a case by case level will be looked into for mobility increases.
• Depending on what we ultimately settle on for laser changes, lights and mediums could be given corrective quirks to ensure that they don't move too far from their current state.

LRMs:
• Another core point we balance against is the choices within the 'Mechlab. We do not want there to be dead weight within the 'Mechlab.
• Prior to the velocity buffs the LRMs where a sub par weapon system at most levels of play. And even with the most recent buffs to the weapon system, they are still a fairly sub-par weapon system over the general lineup.
• With buffs to the baseline equipment, the ease of use and the force multipliers have come under the microscope.
• Coming August patch, we will be hitting the ease of use of the weapon as well as a number of the force multipliers for the weapon. Including:
o Around a 50% tightening of the weapon lock angle.
o Artemis boosts to lock on times and tracking removed. For LRM's it will only tighten the spread on the missile launchers.
o NARC seeing a 100% increase in cooldown.
o ECM getting a range boost.
• Open to further changes post August patch provided those changes are not made with the intent to simply remove the weapon from the overall weapon roster.
• Weapon system changes never off the table as a discussion point, but it is not something that we can definitively state.

Coolshots
• Changes coming to cool shots in the August patch.
• The 14 heat provided by cool shots applied to the 'Mech over a 3 second duration rather then a single second duration.
• Not opposed to changing the way that cool shots operate within the game, but any change has to account for them existing and having a place in the overall lineup.

Future PTS'
• Looking into doing another PTS centered around baseline heat thresholds and dissipation rates based on community proposals.
• Looking to get it out fairly quickly but nothing definitive yet.


Note: We understand there’s a lot of passion behind what you will be commenting on but remember to keep it civil. Posting nothing but salt will get your post moderated and your voice will be lost in the conversation/discussion that this thread is to serve.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Community is two times more pissed off now than at first skill tree implementation.

-tanky K2
-only problem with LRMs is NARC
-laser duration increase is a buff to sustainability

I can’t call this even delusional at this point... That’s just absolute ignorance of game mechanics and metas, growing from minimal value product approach and not playing game even 10% of how much you need to play it to understand.

Will make video tomorrow/after tomorrow.

[Redacted]

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 07 August 2018 - 02:11 PM.
Nonconstructive/Staff Abuse

[Summin]

#THXCHRIS

[NUMBERZero1032]

denAirwalkerrr, on 07 August 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted]
-K2 IS NOT TANKY.
-Nerfing NARC cooldown? LOL dual NARC.
-Dead weight in the mechlab? LOL Small Lasers and Small Pulse Lasers. EVEN LARGE PULSE LASERS. Both IS and Clan.
-Mobility skill tree was a mistake. Too much to invest in. Three trees are needed for defense: Suitability, mobility, and operations for radar derp. MY HEAD IS SPINNING.
-"IS laser vomit has fallen off the radar." GLAD YOU NOTICED. IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS.
-"Lasers aren't the big bad." What was that about clan bogeyman builds?
-"The numbers on PTS are set high and aren't planned on ever going live" Okkkkkkkk so that would have been nice to know BEFORE the PTS was posted, causing all this drama and frustration.

Edited by NUMBERZero1032, 07 August 2018 - 02:06 PM.
Not constructive to topic

[MisterSomaru]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 10 August 2018 - 04:43 PM.
Nonconstructive

[Tina Benoit]

Please stay constructive to the topic or you WILL be moderated from the forums. Any movement comments are also not constructive and will be removed.

Consider this message as first warning.

[Tranderas]

You fundamentally misunderstand why players are mad about... pretty much everything.

Chris insists 1t of AMS ammo is stronger than 1t of LRM ammo, and assuming it was 1 mech firing at 1 mech, in a steady stream, that would be true. However, when I'm running a 3 AMS Kit Fox and I get hit with 5 LRM mechs at once, from behind cover, from different angles, i'm just dead no matter how many AMS I have. I peeked to shoot in an ERLL STK and died from missiles despite AMS. It's a huge problem. The claim that LRMs aren't used in high-level play shows that the people in charge of balance aren't seeing high level play- which is understandable, given the distaste for the competitive community shown by the "beer league" MWOWC2018 format and Paul's comments regarding the community balance project.

The 94 alpha boogeyman PGI keeps pushing in their narrative doesn't exist in competitive play, and rarely does in QP. You might delete someone, maybe, but you're either shutting down to do it or your heat is so high that whoever sees you do it erases you before you can even chain-fire again. Everything in this game is a trade-off, and in the case of mechs like the highly-demonized Deathstrike, you've got massive tradeoffs.

Nerfing agility brought about a ton of problems, most of them involving laser vomit. Before you could turn and spread the damage across components, providing the best counter against the strategy. Want to increase TTK, make pretty much everyone happier, and provide a direct nerf to laser vomit? Revert the agility nerfs.

I'm confused about why you insist that weapon systems shouldn't be dead weight yet you refuse to buff: Clan SRMs, clan SPLs, clan MPLs, clan LPLs, IS LPLs, or Light Gauss. All of these weapons are subpar to the point of not being worth mounting yet they continue to exist in their current forms. I know that Paul insists this would be "power creep" which both is a blatant misunderstanding of that term, and runs contradictory to the three consecutive patches of LRM buffs; however, you need to bring weapons in line, and it's easier to raise the baseline then adjust quirks accordingly than to lower it and adjust later. People losing the viability of their favorite builds on a promise that it'll be fixed later leaves a bad taste. The mass exodus of players starting in April, when Chris's plan for clan lasers was first announced, should've been proof of that fact, but the logic appears to be lost on the team.

So let me be blunt for a moment: According to multiple statistics sources, including the jarlslist website and steamcharts, MWO has lost 80% of its total concurrent players since January. This is a combination of fewer overall players, fewer new players, and the remaining players queuing up for less games. It's blatantly obvious when one tries to queue up for QP as the wait for games went from a matter of seconds to minutes on off-peak. The game is dying. I don't want it to die. I love MWO. But for MWO to survive, the development team needs to fundamentally rethink its course, change that course, and be more open to player feedback. This podcast merely doubles down on the changes that Chris has already put forth, that already caused a mass exodus, and that will kill the game if carried to fruition. Please do something, starting today, to change the overall direction of future balance changes and make the game fun for everyone again.

Thank you.

[Juju Shinobi]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 07 August 2018 - 01:53 PM.
All feedback is accepted, redaction are only done on posts which bring no proper feedback on topic to the post

[Summin]

I believe that the direction this game is going is fantastic and I fully appreciate Chris's and the balancing team's contribution to this game. I do enjoy looking forward to the next big instalment of Mech-warrior online soon.

The full-on buffs for LRMs and relevant play have completely filled what this game was missing and fully benefited the community for the months to come. I do hope they never get nerfed as the narc cooldown nerf is concerning me as I think LRMs are in fact sub-par and could use another velocity buff.

Thank you Chris for your insightful contribution to this game.

[NUMBERZero1032]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 07 August 2018 - 01:44 PM.
Constructive feedback ONLY please: What this means is that you must bring a detailed explanation with your expression/reaction in a polite and respectful manner.

[Pelmeshek]

[Redacted]

About podcast: Engine de-sync are bad, light are still too big, flamers and small|large pulses still garbage. Also buffing lrm its what are people wait in this game(no).

And as i say again [Redacted] post with truth are bad.

Edited by Pelmeshek, 07 August 2018 - 01:50 PM.
nonconstructive/discussing moderation

[MisterSomaru]

Tranderas, on 07 August 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

You fundamentally misunderstand why players are mad about... pretty much everything.

Chris insists 1t of AMS ammo is stronger than 1t of LRM ammo, and assuming it was 1 mech firing at 1 mech, in a steady stream, that would be true. However, when I'm running a 3 AMS Kit Fox and I get hit with 5 LRM mechs at once, from behind cover, from different angles, i'm just dead no matter how many AMS I have. I peeked to shoot in an ERLL STK and died from missiles despite AMS. It's a huge problem. The claim that LRMs aren't used in high-level play shows that the people in charge of balance aren't seeing high level play- which is understandable, given the distaste for the competitive community shown by the "beer league" MWOWC2018 format and Paul's comments regarding the community balance project.

The 94 alpha boogeyman PGI keeps pushing in their narrative doesn't exist in competitive play, and rarely does in QP. You might delete someone, maybe, but you're either shutting down to do it or your heat is so high that whoever sees you do it erases you before you can even chain-fire again. Everything in this game is a trade-off, and in the case of mechs like the highly-demonized Deathstrike, you've got massive tradeoffs.

Nerfing agility brought about a ton of problems, most of them involving laser vomit. Before you could turn and spread the damage across components, providing the best counter against the strategy. Want to increase TTK, make pretty much everyone happier, and provide a direct nerf to laser vomit? Revert the agility nerfs.

I'm confused about why you insist that weapon systems shouldn't be dead weight yet you refuse to buff: Clan SRMs, clan SPLs, clan MPLs, clan LPLs, IS LPLs, or Light Gauss. All of these weapons are subpar to the point of not being worth mounting yet they continue to exist in their current forms. I know that Paul insists this would be "power creep" which both is a blatant misunderstanding of that term, and runs contradictory to the three consecutive patches of LRM buffs; however, you need to bring weapons in line, and it's easier to raise the baseline then adjust quirks accordingly than to lower it and adjust later. People losing the viability of their favorite builds on a promise that it'll be fixed later leaves a bad taste. The mass exodus of players starting in April, when Chris's plan for clan lasers was first announced, should've been proof of that fact, but the logic appears to be lost on the team.

So let me be blunt for a moment: According to multiple statistics sources, including the jarlslist website and steamcharts, MWO has lost 80% of its total concurrent players since January. This is a combination of fewer overall players, fewer new players, and the remaining players queuing up for less games. It's blatantly obvious when one tries to queue up for QP as the wait for games went from a matter of seconds to minutes on off-peak. The game is dying. I don't want it to die. I love MWO. But for MWO to survive, the development team needs to fundamentally rethink its course, change that course, and be more open to player feedback. This podcast merely doubles down on the changes that Chris has already put forth, that already caused a mass exodus, and that will kill the game if carried to fruition. Please do something, starting today, to change the overall direction of future balance changes and make the game fun for everyone again.

Thank you.

Stuff like this.
many of us have invested hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars into this game, as well as many thousands of hours. We know how to play the game, and constantly find ways to improve the gameplay experience as a whole for a wider audience, only to feel oppressed or snubbed when we do our best to put forth meaningful contributions to make everything viable. Catering to players that have no skill in twisting or positioning or aim completely is just as bad as catering completely to the competitive 99th percentile. We aren't asking to make the game only esport level, but so many players just feel absolutely burned by the changes over the past year that they've sworn off the game, very few average gamers will actually get enjoyment out of the game due to how it's catering further and further to slow, static gameplay. When balancing the game, one needs to take into account the player behaviors as a group. when it's literally no longer viable to bring direct fire weaponry due to the player population as a whole refusing to actively participate in matches in favor of lobbing lrms the entire time, then what are the rest of the players who like brawling, or mid range, or long range shooting? easy answer: they A, join the lrm bandwagon, or B, upright quit.
That's just one example.
Mechs need better agility, twist speed at the least. this defeats lasers and uacs due to being able to spread the damage. all that armor does nothing if you can't spread it.
There are absolutely useless garbage weapons that are ignored completely unless someone is bored and remembers it exists.
Streaks are too strong. One should be rewarded for being able to shoot at light mechs and hit them. skill should be rewarded. There are few enough light pilots as is thanks to lock on weaponry, but a streakboat just eliminates lights altogether.
Just a few things. The community balance project solved MANY issues of balance in the game, but it was largely ignored except for when it was convenient.
I just want to be able to enjoy this game again, many of us want to enjoy this game again. The activity in my friends list last month was 6 people out of the hundreds on there just last month. I know games all die off at some point, but not like this.

[Paul Inouye]

Tranderas, on 07 August 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

You fundamentally misunderstand why players are mad about... pretty much everything. Chris insists 1t of AMS ammo is stronger than 1t of LRM ammo, and assuming it was 1 mech firing at 1 mech, in a steady stream, that would be true. However, when I'm running a 3 AMS Kit Fox and I get hit with 5 LRM mechs at once, from behind cover, from different angles, i'm just dead no matter how many AMS I have. I peeked to shoot in an ERLL STK and died from missiles despite AMS. It's a huge problem. The claim that LRMs aren't used in high-level play shows that the people in charge of balance aren't seeing high level play- which is understandable, given the distaste for the competitive community shown by the "beer league" MWOWC2018 format and Paul's comments regarding the community balance project.

This is why we are investigating the use AND counters of LRM gameplay. As for competitive builds, we pull telemetry from top tier players and the loadouts they use. This is where Chris is getting the information about what is being used at high end gameplay.

My comments about the community balance project was that it was an uphill balance pass pushing that alpha/laser vomit game wider as well as bringing TTK and DPS to a level that would require adverse quirks in a manner that would cause all kinds of weird stuff in gameplay. I also mentioned that there are numbers in the community project that do work and work in an overall balance approach that we will be implementing as we move forward.

Quote

The 94 alpha boogeyman PGI keeps pushing in their narrative doesn't exist in competitive play, and rarely does in QP. You might delete someone, maybe, but you're either shutting down to do it or your heat is so high that whoever sees you do it erases you before you can even chain-fire again.

The fact that you 'delete' someone using that build (even though not sustainable) is the problem. This is what we're trying to address. If you listen/read about the podcast, we are looking at ways to address this without using the large numbers seen on PTS. If you read the post I made initially here, we know we're not going to pull the massive Alphas down in any significant manner with the current implementation of duration/damage... but there's a starting point where we can do a minimal adjustment to start closing the gap and we will be looking elsewhere to find a better solution that doesn't penalize on global scale and such high deltas.

Quote

Everything in this game is a trade-off, and in the case of mechs like the highly-demonized Deathstrike, you've got massive tradeoffs. Nerfing agility brought about a ton of problems, most of them involving laser vomit. Before you could turn and spread the damage across components, providing the best counter against the strategy. Want to increase TTK, make pretty much everyone happier, and provide a direct nerf to laser vomit? Revert the agility nerfs.

That's what we said we're doing in the podcast. Specifically Assault class agility. If there are 'Mechs that will need a bump in agility, they will be investigated and given the quirks they need.

Quote

I'm confused about why you insist that weapon systems shouldn't be dead weight yet you refuse to buff: Clan SRMs, clan SPLs, clan MPLs, clan LPLs, IS LPLs, or Light Gauss. All of these weapons are subpar to the point of not being worth mounting yet they continue to exist in their current forms. I know that Paul insists this would be "power creep" which both is a blatant misunderstanding of that term, and runs contradictory to the three consecutive patches of LRM buffs; however, you need to bring weapons in line, and it's easier to raise the baseline then adjust quirks accordingly than to lower it and adjust later. People losing the viability of their favorite builds on a promise that it'll be fixed later leaves a bad taste.

Again, we can buff underperforming weapons as long as those buffs don't widen that gulf between Clan and IS.

Quote

The mass exodus of players starting in April, when Chris's plan for clan lasers was first announced, should've been proof of that fact, but the logic appears to be lost on the team. So let me be blunt for a moment: According to multiple statistics sources, including the jarlslist website and steamcharts, MWO has lost 80% of its total concurrent players since January. This is a combination of fewer overall players, fewer new players, and the remaining players queuing up for less games. It's blatantly obvious when one tries to queue up for QP as the wait for games went from a matter of seconds to minutes on off-peak. The game is dying. I don't want it to die. I love MWO. But for MWO to survive, the development team needs to fundamentally rethink its course, change that course, and be more open to player feedback. This podcast merely doubles down on the changes that Chris has already put forth, that already caused a mass exodus, and that will kill the game if carried to fruition. Please do something, starting today, to change the overall direction of future balance changes and make the game fun for everyone again. Thank you.

As stated in the podcast.. there are more levels to balance other than just the energy issue we are currently focused on. We ARE listening to the community and this is why this is a discussion and not just a post of what's to come.

Summin, on 07 August 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I believe that the direction this game is going is fantastic and I fully appreciate Chris's and the balancing team's contribution to this game. I do enjoy looking forward to the next big instalment of Mech-warrior online soon. The full-on buffs for LRMs and relevant play have completely filled what this game was missing and fully benefited the community for the months to come. I do hope they never get nerfed as the narc cooldown nerf is concerning me as I think LRMs are in fact sub-par and could use another velocity buff. Thank you Chris for your insightful contribution to this game.

Funny.

hehe

[MisterSomaru]

TL:DR, Skill ceiling is buried under the bedrock, balance is out of whack, many players feel cheated/burnt, wrong steps have been taken to remedy.

additional: Desync was a great idea, IMO, and I've discussed this with many others, but the fact remains that base values for agility were set too low.

Edited by MrSomaru, 07 August 2018 - 02:00 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

MrSomaru, on 07 August 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

*snip*
The community balance project solved MANY issues of balance in the game, but it was largely ignored except for when it was convenient. I just want to be able to enjoy this game again, many of us want to enjoy this game again. The activity in my friends list last month was 6 people out of the hundreds on there just last month. I know games all die off at some point, but not like this.

Note: The snip isn't saying your other info isn't important.. it's just a way to focus my reply.

I've said this above and in previous posts... our focus right now is the laser vomit issue on Clan side. The community doc points out weapons systems that are low performers and some other outliers (streaks) etc. Those numbers suggested by the community are not being ignored. Like I said before.. there are numbers in the community doc that work correctly and will be implemented in the future.

You mention bringing agility back and this is exactly what we've been saying in the podcast and the original post in this thread.

Put it to you this way.. help us close that laser vomit gap and we discuss all the other weapon systems on a case by case basis and move forward.

[Vladokapuh]

Paul Inouye, on 07 August 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Put it to you this way.. help us close that laser vomit gap and we discuss all the other weapon systems on a case by case basis and move forward.

...but you are actively trying to move forward by moving backwards.

[roboPrancer]

Paul Inouye, on 07 August 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Put it to you this way.. help us close that laser vomit gap and we discuss all the other weapon systems on a case by case basis and move forward.

Increase base torso speed and range for large mechs. Nerf medium and large laser damage very slightly. (ie 1 point or less)

Or alternatively, reflective armor.

Edited by roboPrancer, 07 August 2018 - 02:08 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

roboPrancer, on 07 August 2018 - 02:07 PM, said:

Increase base torso speed and range for large mechs. Nerf medium and large laser damage very slightly.

Or alternatively, reflective armor.

This is our intention.

[roboPrancer]

Paul Inouye, on 07 August 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

This is our intention.

Yeah I know, I mean barely touch them at all. A very light touch.

Like just barely graze them.

Edited by roboPrancer, 07 August 2018 - 02:10 PM.

[Gojira Goth I-HOP Mecrenary]

Tranderas, on 07 August 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

So let me be blunt for a moment: According to multiple statistics sources, including the jarlslist website and steamcharts, MWO has lost 80% of its total concurrent players since January. This is a combination of fewer overall players, fewer new players, and the remaining players queuing up for less games.

What can be done to attract new players?

The grind to even become a some what competent pilot is insane thanks to the skill tree system. If we figure a new player can amass two skill points per match that's still roughly 45-50 matches to complete the 91 point tree. At 15 minutes a match that's 11-13 hours of grind PER MECH. Not to mention the roughly 3 million c-bills in cost.

Exact number being 3.64 Million C-bills and 72,800xp for a full 91 point tree.

Edited by Gojira1308, 07 August 2018 - 02:14 PM.