45 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

Pgi seem deathly afraid of nerfing chassis. Ever since the drama that happened with the kdk3 actually. I'm guessing it's because they think it'll affect their sales. No one wants to pony up cash for a new shiny only to see it get nerfed within a month.

If that happens, more players will take the "wait and see" approach and only buy mechs when they're out for cbills. Considering pgi relies heavily on mech sales to bring in dough, i can understand why they're hesitant to nerf particular mechs. Their penchant for overdoing nerfs makes the effect more pronounced.

By nerfing weapons as a whole, at least they can argue that it's a nerf to everyone, not just the mech you bought for real money.

That would explain all the pants-on-head gauss and heavy laser gh nerfs they're proposing instead of just outright nerfing the mcii ds.

The Drama with the KDK-3 was specifically because PGI went and nerfed all the bears instead of the one that was being a problem. Had they limited the nerfage solely to the 3, then there would have been no issue.

[Wil McCullough]

Requiemking, on 09 August 2018 - 11:30 PM, said:

The Drama with the KDK-3 was specifically because PGI went and nerfed all the bears instead of the one that was being a problem. Had they limited the nerfage solely to the 3, then there would have been no issue.

There was a pretty huge ruckus kicked up by people threatening to boycott purchases if pgi nerfed the kdk3 because they bought it precisely cos of its "perks".

Pgi, in its ham fisted way, seemed to have thought nerfing all the chassis was the right way to go

[Jackal Noble]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2018 - 11:53 PM, said:

There was a pretty huge ruckus kicked up by people threatening to boycott purchases if pgi nerfed the kdk3 because they bought it precisely cos of its "perks".

Pgi, in its ham fisted way, seemed to have thought nerfing all the chassis was the right way to go

Just sucks, and sucked at the time because the kodiak line lost all of it's quirks.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 10 August 2018 - 12:19 AM.

[B0oN]

"How many clan mechs are really a problem ?"
None, if you push them .

[Wil McCullough]

Jackal Noble, on 10 August 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

Just sucks, and sucked at the time because the kodiak line lost all of it's quirks.

Well, you can't say we're singling out and nerfing a chassis you bought for real money if we make everything else suck even worse.

Would you like to buy a mech pack?

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

B0oN, on 10 August 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

"How many clan mechs are really a problem ?"

the 2 that make 2 stars into 3 lances

I am joking but the imbalance comes from the weapon hardpoint #s and power differences that exist but are ignored by making it 12 IS vs 12 clan.I didn't play tabletop but I would think there was a reason they had stars and lances.

if you can't balance a game in 6 years make everything equal and charge less for clan mechs...

also I only own 4 clan mechs and 3 were free

I would love to see a test where IS mechs had generic weapon hardpoints where we can put any weapon just to see...

Edited by Gorantir, 10 August 2018 - 06:05 PM.

[B0oN]

Gorantir, on 10 August 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

the 2 that make 2 stars into 3 lances

Do you really believe that any unit would be able to outperform 12 IS mechs in 10 Clan mechs ?
If you do, please name the unit and mechconfigurations across the whole dropdeck please .
# I R Intrigued

[Khobai]

Yeonne Greene, on 08 August 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

I get the joke but, also, was not ever a Clan 'Mech. Star League 'Mech, yes, but not Clan.

but clans still had annihilators. wolf's dragoons used annihilators. only comstar probably has more annihilators than the clans.

there should be certain starleague era mechs that both IS and clans can use, annihilator being one of them

but those shared mechs shouldnt be able to use clantech, just IS tech.

Edited by Khobai, 10 August 2018 - 05:15 PM.

[El Bandito]

B0oN, on 10 August 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

"How many clan mechs are really a problem ?"
None, if you push them .

KCom tried that with their brawler IS Assaults. Mercstar blasted them apart from 600 meters in the open waters of Crimson Straights, using the MCII-B.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 10 August 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

but clans still had annihilators. wolf's dragoons used annihilators. only comstar probably has more annihilators than the clans.

there should be certain starleague era mechs that both IS and clans can use, annihilator being one of them

but those shared mechs shouldnt be able to use clantech, just IS tech.

They weren't Clan Annihilators, they were Star League Annihilators that had been mothballed and preserved for centuries.

If we're going to get into shared tech, then there were Mad Cat Mk. IIs sold to and run by IS houses, so they should get Mad Cat Mk. IIs...nah. This is just a big can of worms. ANH is IS, MCII is Clan. End of story.

[SmokedJag]

B0oN, on 10 August 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Do you really believe that any unit would be able to outperform 12 IS mechs in 10 Clan mechs ?
If you do, please name the unit and mechconfigurations across the whole dropdeck please .
# I R Intrigued

Unnerf all Clan weapons and find out why 10v12 was supposed to be the starting point for Clans bidding (e.g. not bringing full assault or 5x Timber Wolf Stars) and fighting with style restrictions...

[MischiefSC]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 August 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

So, all the fun 'Mechs...

The ironic bit is if you buff fun (mobility, a lot of under performers, small lasers of all sorts, LPLs, etc) you could "nerf" those mechs and still have a better game.

[Khobai]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 August 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

They weren't Clan Annihilators, they were Star League Annihilators that had been mothballed and preserved for centuries.

The clans still owned them so they were clan annihilators. In fact the clans even put them to use by giving them to wolf's dragoons.

being in denial about something doesnt make it true. clans had annihilators. they used annihilators. so letting them use annihilators in mwo would make perfect sense. especially since the daishi is garbage in PGI's alternate universe.

and yes madcat mk2s were sold to the innersphere. but the madcat mk2 also shouldnt even exist in current faction play which still takes place during 3058 lol.

If they actually advanced the faction play timeline to the civil war era, then having mixed IS/Clan teams would be perfectly fine. It would help balance faction play and reduce the number of buckets.

Edited by Khobai, 11 August 2018 - 07:44 AM.

[FLG 01]

Jackal Noble, on 10 August 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

Just sucks, and sucked at the time because the kodiak line lost all of it's quirks.

This is one of many Clan Mechs that should get some kind of buff to compensate the damage done to them by overnerfing them in the past. The Kodiak definitely deserves more mobility, for a start, as does the Timber Wolf.

Khobai, on 11 August 2018 - 07:39 AM, said:

clans had annihilators. they used annihilators. so letting them use annihilators in mwo would make perfect sense.

The fallacy of this argument has been demonstrated many times, including once in this thread by Yeonne Greene:
the distribution of Mechs in MWO is all about tech base, and that's it. Every Clan gets every Clantech Mech, and every IS faction gets every IS tech Mech.

It's not terribly accurate to the lore, actually it's quite wrong in many cases (I cringe when I see Bushwackers in Kurita colours...).
But your idea of letting the Clans just cherry pick whatever IS tech unit was in their depot, while at the same time denying the IS forces their canonically available Clan Mechs, is just not only anti-lore, it also betrays bias.

Khobai, on 10 August 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

but clans still had annihilators. wolf's dragoons used annihilators. only comstar probably has more annihilators than the clans.

ComStar never had any Annihilators.

Edited by FLG 01, 11 August 2018 - 10:24 AM.

[Khobai]

FLG 01, on 11 August 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

This is one of many Clan Mechs that should get some kind of buff to compensate the damage done to them by overnerfing them in the past. The Kodiak definitely deserves more mobility, for a start, as does the Timber Wolf.



The fallacy of this argument has been demonstrated many times, including once in this thread by Yeonne Greene:
the distribution of Mechs in MWO is all about tech base, and that's it. Every Clan gets every Clantech Mech, and every IS faction gets every IS tech Mech.

It's not terribly accurate to the lore, actually it's quite wrong in many cases (I cringe when I see Bushwackers in Kurita colours...).
But your idea of letting the Clans just cherry pick whatever IS tech unit was in their depot, while at the same time denying the IS forces their canonically available Clan Mechs, is just not only anti-lore, it also betrays bias.

the annihilator itself is bias. because the direwolf is complete garbage.

give clans their own 100 tonner worthy of the annihilator and maybe they wont have to ask for the annihilator

[Battlemaster56]

Khobai, on 11 August 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

the annihilator itself is bias. because the direwolf is complete garbage.

give clans their own 100 tonner worthy of the annihilator and maybe they wont have to ask for the annihilator

So the Dire Wolf basically with armor quirks to allow to tank for days?

I mean it's not hard to outgun a annihilator in a Dire Wolf it's just who get the shot in first.

[Abaddun]

Khobai, on 11 August 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

the annihilator itself is bias. because the direwolf is complete garbage.

give clans their own 100 tonner worthy of the annihilator and maybe they wont have to ask for the annihilator

The Dire wolf is literally on the knife edge of being OP. Right now, compared to other choices, it's not great, in fact, it's pretty bad. It's slow and squishy for a 100 tonner. But there was a time when quirks didn't exist, and Clan mechs were just as durable as IS mechs, and in that time, the Direwolf wrecked everything. Nothing came anywhere close to how powerful the Direwolf was, even the Timberwolf, which was, in it's own way, one of the best mechs in the game.

[Khobai]

Abaddun, on 11 August 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

The Dire wolf is literally on the knife edge of being OP. Right now, compared to other choices, it's not great, in fact, it's pretty bad. It's slow and squishy for a 100 tonner. But there was a time when quirks didn't exist, and Clan mechs were just as durable as IS mechs, and in that time, the Direwolf wrecked everything. Nothing came anywhere close to how powerful the Direwolf was, even the Timberwolf, which was, in it's own way, one of the best mechs in the game.

the direwolf isnt even close to being op lmao

also the annihilator didnt exist back when the direwolf wrecked everything. However the annihilator wrecks everything now and its much better than the direwolf ever was. direwolf may have been one of the best mechs in the game at one time but it certainly isnt now, and now is what matters.

direwolf needs a huge buff because its hitboxes are crap. and CUACs are crap. and its not at all equal to the annihilator.

Edited by Khobai, 11 August 2018 - 07:28 PM.

[Abaddun]

Khobai, on 11 August 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

the direwolf isnt even close to being op lmao

also the annihilator didnt exist back when the direwolf wrecked everything. However the annihilator wrecks everything now and its much better than the direwolf ever was. direwolf may have been one of the best mechs in the game at one time but it certainly isnt now, and now is what matters.

direwolf needs a huge buff because its hitboxes are crap. and CUACs are crap. and its not at all equal to the annihilator.

For starters, the Annihilator suffers exactly the same drawbacks as the Direwolf, it's slow, has poor hitboxes, and ISUACs are strictly inferior to Clan UACs. The only thing separating the two are the Quirks, and suprise suprise, they're getting heavily toned down in the next patch.

An annihilator without quirks can't compete with a Direwolf that can boat more ACs, has better weapon mounts and has weight saving Clan tech.

And another thing, Clan UACs suck? Really? So I must be dreaming then when I can strip a heavy mech to internals in 2.5 Seconds with a Triple CUAC10s and a CUAC5.

Edited by Abaddun, 11 August 2018 - 08:55 PM.

[Khobai]

Abaddun, on 11 August 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

For starters, the Annihilator suffers exactly the same drawbacks as the Direwolf

annihilator has much better hitboxes. its torso sections are way narrower and distribute damage better. it also gets better weapon and survivability quirks.

Abaddun, on 11 August 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

An annihilator without quirks can't compete with a Direwolf that can boat more ACs, has better weapon mounts and has weight saving Clan tech.

but the annihilator DOES have quirks.

thats in large part why its better.

the annihilator is also getting its quirks nerfed on PTS. that should tell you something: its obviously too good. everyone knows it, its not a secret, thats why its being nerfed.

Abaddun, on 11 August 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

And another thing, Clan UACs suck? Really? So I must be dreaming then when I can strip a heavy mech to internals in 2.5 Seconds with a Triple CUAC10s and a CUAC5.

yes CUACs are mediocre weapons at best due to their atrociously high jam rate. the only time CUACs are even a threat is when theyre on an exceptional chassis like the madcat MK2. theyre not nearly as big of a threat on the dire wolf, because CUACs require giving facetime, which the direwolf is really really bad at due to its huge hitboxes and lack of adequate armor/structure quirks.

its really no contest. the annihilator is outright better.

Edited by Khobai, 11 August 2018 - 10:54 PM.