42 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Suko, on 13 August 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

You refer to one person. I am referring to a collective of multiple people/users who have mentioned this. They are not the same, no matter how much you wish it was for the sake of your analogy.

Fox News.

Flat Earthers.

Anti-Vaccination.

I can keep going no matter how much you wish to defend such an ignorant statement.

[Tatula]

It's the mini faction warfare events. The same people who play in the GQ spent their play time doing the event and the GQ suffers. But overall, with the population decline, it's not going to get better. PGI needs to get their act together or MWO won't be around much longer. On the other hand, with MW5 coming out, maybe that's their plan.

[justcallme A S H]

Mr Andersson, on 14 August 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

Me and my group usually play on tuesday nights (CET), and we haven't gotten a single match for the past three tuesdays. Group queue seems dead.

That is because groups are in Faction Play for the event.

Always the case when there is an event on for a specific queue, goes both ways.

[Phyrce]

Mystere, on 09 August 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

Instead, allow solos into the group queue.

They already do. I have ended up facing friends that were in group that i was not playing with several times as a solo player.

[Tatula]

Phyrce, on 15 August 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

They already do. I have ended up facing friends that were in group that i was not playing with several times as a solo player.

??? How were you able to play in the GQ as a solo?

I was going to suggest allowing Tier 1 players to join the GQ as a solo. Being in Tier 1 means you have at least played long enough to have some idea of what works and what not to do. It will give the lower tier something to work towards. It will help the GQ matchmaker setting up a match. Have 11 players? No problem. Just grab a solo and go. Have a 4/4/3 group waiting for another 4 to make 4/4/4 (too bad for to the 3)? Have a 10 man waiting for a duo but no pairs in the queue? Grab 2 solos. The only downside to this is that solo queue will lose some Tier 1 players opting to play in the GQ.

[Phyrce]

Aloha, on 15 August 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

??? How were you able to play in the GQ as a solo?

I was going to suggest allowing Tier 1 players to join the GQ as a solo. Being in Tier 1 means you have at least played long enough to have some idea of what works and what not to do. It will give the lower tier something to work towards. It will help the GQ matchmaker setting up a match. Have 11 players? No problem. Just grab a solo and go. Have a 4/4/3 group waiting for another 4 to make 4/4/4 (too bad for to the 3)? Have a 10 man waiting for a duo but no pairs in the queue? Grab 2 solos. The only downside to this is that solo queue will lose some Tier 1 players opting to play in the GQ.

I don't know what to tell you, I as a solo player ended up in a game against a group of my friends. this suggests to me that they are already doing what you are talking about.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Mickey Knoxx, on 09 August 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Im guessing because outside of around a 2-3 hour window, group queue is pretty dead. For the last month or two we cant find a match on any server

I rarely wait more than 2 minutes for a group queue game, regardless of size. Luckily I've never sat for 30 minutes waiting on a game in a two man.

I will say this tho, and I cannot possibly know if it's a real bug or confirmation bias coloring my perception, but if I'm getting itchy after more than a minute or two of waiting I will often stop the search, we ready up, click launch and instant match up the vast majority of the time. Tracked this oddity no less than a half dozen times between last night and Saturday. It's so noticeable that it's become my go to move when the queue seems slow.

That being said, bug, fluke or just misperception, I'm sure it wouldn't matter in AP times regardless. Ghost town during that time window for group play.

Phyrce, on 15 August 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't know what to tell you, I as a solo player ended up in a game against a group of my friends. this suggests to me that they are already doing what you are talking about.

I dont believe this occurred. Are you 100% folks were formally grouped and not just synched up by coincidence?

If you honestly think this happened you should contact mwo support about it being a massive bug potentially. Screenshot or video if you ever think it's happening again, etc.

[Tatula]

Phyrce, on 15 August 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't know what to tell you, I as a solo player ended up in a game against a group of my friends. this suggests to me that they are already doing what you are talking about.

But you weren't playing in the GQ. You were playing in the solo queue and maybe your friends were sync dropping.

[Lukoi Banacek]

P.s. why do folks always want to add groups (duos, triples, small groups of four) BEFORE allowing soloists into group queue first to test the waters of this?

We have evidence of both approaches (the former in QP long ago, and the latter in FP now). One provides a clearly more palatable experience, so why not start with that?

[Vellron2005]

I've been having significant difficulty getting a two-man into a group que..

Absurd wait times.. it's frustrating..

I still think we should add two-mans to Solo Que..

Edited by Vellron2005, 16 August 2018 - 01:23 AM.

[Peter2k]

Ehh
Playing with a buddy seems to increase wait times compared to solo que

Why not let me join group que as solo
Worst I end up same as in solo having a bad match, but usually I find the matches in group que better


But it's still summer, hope it gets better

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Phyrce, on 15 August 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

They already do. I have ended up facing friends that were in group that i was not playing with several times as a solo player.

Phyrce, on 15 August 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't know what to tell you, I as a solo player ended up in a game against a group of my friends. this suggests to me that they are already doing what you are talking about.

Which is it?

[Six-Pack]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 11 August 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

A player without benefit of a partner drops into a match and over the course of play has to square off against two players who built and dropped in coordination. NARC light + LRM80 assault maybe, maybe something else, whatever.

The worst thing that could happen is that the player without benefit of a partner, through no decision of their own, must play the game at a distinct disadvantage. I don't see what the use is of trying to balance any of the mechs or weapons if you're going to let groups whup up on solos anyway.


Conversely, a group with coordinated builds squaring off against isolated rando PUGs will enjoy a distinct battlefield advantage, which they have done absolutely nothing to earn, hence my earlier post.

So tired of hearing how play in solo queue is god awful from people just dying to get in there with a 2-4 man premade.

By the same logic what chances a duo has against a 10 men pre-made? Hit me up in MWO and we will try your wombo comboes in GQ against bigger groups.

[Daurock]

Six-Pack, on 17 August 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

By the same logic what chances a duo has against a 10 men pre-made?

The only thing in group play that helps to some extent is that the tonnage limitations get pretty severe once you start pushing the number of players in the group past 5 or 6. Still, my money is on the vast majority of 10-12 mans still having the upper hand vs. several small groups. The co-ordination you can do pre-game, advantage of a discord/ts server for easier communication, plus the fact that you can choose nearly your entire team and weed out the terribles, are massive advantages are exclusive to large groups, and probably always will be.

It could be worse - It could be FW. That mode doesn't even attempt to help the small group people. The recent events on that front have given me a chance to get out and get a little late-summer air, since I don't touch FW in its current state, regardless of the rewards.

Edited by Daurock, 17 August 2018 - 06:33 AM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Six-Pack, on 17 August 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

By the same logic what chances a duo has against a 10 men pre-made?

My guess is that they're screwed. I wouldn't know for sure, because I don't play in group queue. I play in the solo queue, where teams comprised of solo players expect to play against other teams comprised of solos, which I don't think is particularly unfair or unreasonable.

In earnest, I'm all for fixing any problems you say are pressing in group queue, provided the solutions don't involve premade groups in the solo queue. By the same logic, it solves nothing, only shifts the problem small groups have in the group queue onto solos in the solo queue.

Finally, letting small groups into the solo queue is not really a "group queue" solution at all, just permission for small premades to abandon group queue entirely. If the root of the group queue problem is low population, won't this just make group queue worse?

Why not allow solos the option to opt into the group queue if they want? Seems like a good way to bolster group queue numbers, and also introduce solo players to group play voluntarily, instead of foisting premades with a particularly unfair and unreasonable (not to mention unearned) advantage onto solos.

I really like the idea posted earlier of only allowing T1 players the option to join group; it gives the PSR a little more meaning. T1 solos who voluntarily take on the disadvantage of playing against premade groups by opting into the group queue should get some juicy XP/$$$ modifiers to sweeten the pot.

Edited for clarity

Edited by Mister Glitchdragon, 17 August 2018 - 07:40 AM.

[Daurock]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 17 August 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

Why not allow solos the option to opt into the group queue if they want? Seems like a good way to bolster group queue numbers, and also introduce solo players to group play voluntarily, instead of foisting premades with a particularly unfair and unreasonable (not to mention unearned) advantage onto solos.

The biggest reason not to worry about putting solos into the group que is that the players won't actually do it, at least in numbers big enough to actually make any difference. If you're in a small group/solo in the group que, chances are you'll STILL usually be placed with other solo'ers/small groups. The whole "Solo dropping in with a large group" thing is at best, a rarity. The only difference is that you'll now get to occasionally face a Large, organized group, and get your face punched in. Why would anyone sign up for that? Adding "Solos" to the group que is a nothing-burger for most practical purposes. Do I think it needs to be prohibited? No. If a player is masochistic like that, let them do their thing. But don't expect it to grow the group que in any meaningful fashion.

As for "Duos in the solo que" - I don't doubt for a moment that a few Exceptionally skilled players would manage to faceroll to an obscenely high winrate in the solo que. however, there's an important couple of differences here between this, and the "Large Pre-made vs Skittles" concept.
First, that duo, dropped with the same players match after match, doesn't absolutely tank the winrate of everyone else. This is because 10 of the 22 other players are playing WITH them, and because of that, still gathering a win nearly every other game. With a large group, the players on the op-for would be the same players, again and again, and thus would lose each and every time. This is part of why its so dis-heartening to see a big group dropping, because you know you'll probably see them again, not be on their team, and get rolled.
Second, the skill level needed to carry 10 solos is MUCH higher than the skill needed to roll Small groups when running a large one. I've seen large groups, with only average skill steamroll matches, simply because they are coordinated. The number of players capable of ruining solo que is a FAR smaller than the number of players capable of forming a large group, and emptying group que.

In short - allowing duos (But not anything larger than that) is unlikely to tank the solo que experience, due to the rarity of groups actually capable of swinging matches that hard, and the fact that even with repeated drops with them, the chances of that group being on your team are near 50-50.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Daurock, on 17 August 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

The biggest reason not to worry about putting solos into the group que is that the players won't actually do it, at least in numbers big enough to actually make any difference.

Whose worried? And I disagree. I would (when I make T1), and there are a lot of others (several on this thread alone) provided there were incentives that would encourage us to do so. By T1, a lot of solos are ready for something different than NASCAR and deathherd. Group queue is supposed to be where the "pros" play and many (not all, but many) of us would like to check out that level of play. Ultimately, you really don't have any numbers to back up your assertions, and neither do I, so let's not dwell.

And once more, how does your solution "fix" group queue? Does it reduce wait times or make things any easier for 2-man premades in group queue? Maybe PGI could offer some XP/$$$ incentives to 2-man groups playing at a disadvantage in group queue as well. That's a solution that would help new players in 2-man premades, as it would get them good kit and skilled up faster.

The thing is, we want solutions that 1) fix the problems in group queue, and 2) reward players for playing at a disadvantage.

Daurock, on 17 August 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

the rarity of groups actually capable of swinging matches that hard

I'm not just talking about super-skill players. I'm talking about ECM NARC Commando + LRM Assault damage-farmers in every solo match you play from now on <Drops Mic>

Edited for more to say

Edited by Mister Glitchdragon, 17 August 2018 - 09:44 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

I would opt in then once the match is over with might even be invited to link up for a few matches.

[Vellron2005]

Yes, nearly impossible to get a match in group que these days..

[Peaklander]

I started playing this game only a few weeks ago. I can't play this game with my friend is the short and simple. Weekend afternoons and weekday evenings don't dish out games to duos for EU timezones.

I got a few games in with him when I first got it because as as a one off I was able to play past 11 PM GMT+1 (wife out of town). It took a long time at US prime time - still 10 -20 mins

I don't have time for clans etc. I do have time for a quick casual game on a weekend afternoon. Its turning out to be not the game for me just because of this. If they can't do a thing about it then that's life, but it'll be the end of it for me.