27 replies to this topic

[Cifer98]

The engine desync I feel made torso twisting much less effective than it should be. I feel that it should be buffed across all mechs so that damage can once again be spread effectively, I think this would help the brawl builds become more viable and actually be somewhat comparable to the mid-long range builds in effectiveness, and from what I've those builds have really fallen out of favor ever since the engine desync.

[El Bandito]

I'm sure a lot of people want that back. I'd say that in general twist rate should be buffed back, but other nerfed mobility aspects such as accel/decel should stay the same for certain meta mechs, to keep em in line.

[ACH75]

Lights are too agile, Assaults not enough!

Try to assign wiser base agility values at the extremes (20 and 100 tonners) then arrange others weight classes proportionally...

[General Solo]

Not keen on the idea of assaults playing like heavies.

[Khobai]

Agility nerfs were one of the reasons laser vomit became so strong.

They should definitely buff baseline agility. And buff the mobility skill tree so its actually worth putting points into.

And they need to fix all the mechs that have bad agility for no reason like the Night Gyr.

OZHomerOZ, on 07 August 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

Not keen on the idea of assaults playing like heavies.

Im not keen on the idea of assaults not being able to torso twist while other weight classes can

It just makes assaults less survivable than heavies, and thats not right.

All mechs should be agile enough to effectively torso twist. Because torso twisting is so important in this game.

Edited by Khobai, 07 August 2018 - 05:58 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Go listen to the latest balance podcast (NGNG #165). Chris/Paul pretty much stated that with some exceptions engine desync has done what they wanted it to, and they gave only the single example of the Atlas as a mech in need of an agility buff. That isn't to say there aren't others that also need a buff, but they seemed to go to pains to emphasize that the slower/lower agility of many mechs today is working as intended. They also made the (mistaken in the case of many mechs) statement that by using the mobility tree one could return a given mech to its formerly mastered levels of agility. So they seem to think the less agile mechs of today are a consequence of player choice and not their desync/lower agility baseline numbers.

[Khobai]

Bud Crue, on 07 August 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Go listen to the latest balance podcast (NGNG #165). Chris/Paul pretty much stated that with some exceptions engine desync has done what they wanted it to

thats been the problem all along. they do what they want. not what we want.


assaults should be more survivable than heavies. which isnt the case when assaults cant torso twist.

also theres assaults that cant even accelerate fast enough to get out of an artillery radius which is just stupid. it means no matter what youre getting hit by artillery even if you see the smoke and try to move out of it.

they need to increase baseline agility enough so all mechs can torso twist. and they need to increase baseline acceleration enough that assaults can get out of artillery radius in time.

and lets not forget about the night gyr... the 75 tonner that quite literally moves like a 95 tonner. lolol.


nobody wants their version of engine desync.

Edited by Khobai, 07 August 2018 - 06:26 PM.

[General Solo]

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Agility nerfs were one of the reasons laser vomit became so strong.

They should definitely buff baseline agility. And buff the mobility skill tree so its actually worth putting points into.

And they need to fix all the mechs that have bad agility for no reason like the Night Gyr.



Im not keen on the idea of assaults not being able to torso twist while other weight classes can

It just makes assaults less survivable than heavies, and thats not right.

All mechs should be agile enough to effectively torso twist. Because torso twisting is so important in this game.

I disagree, each class has their strengths, for assaults its firepower not mobility.
I am not having this torso twist problem, assaults are my strongest mech class
With the amount of firepower at their disposal I think their current mobility is a fair trade off.

Heavies.....Yummy
I drive assaults way moar than heavies cause their better for me as a pilot.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 07 August 2018 - 06:28 PM.

[Khobai]

OZHomerOZ, on 07 August 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

I disagree, each class has their strengths, for assaults its firepower not mobility.

a lot of assaults dont really get a firepower advantage though because they have the same heat cap that heavies do.

the only way assaults get more firepower is to spam low heat ballistics. which were heavily nerfed on the clan side. CUACs are terrible now. And autocannons are so heavy on the IS side, theres only a few mechs like the annihilator that can spam them.

so I mean you can make a case for ballistic spamming assaults having bad mobility. but assaults that cant spam ballistics should absolutely get agility buffs. because they dont get the firepower advantage.

Edited by Khobai, 07 August 2018 - 06:52 PM.

[General Solo]

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

a lot of assaults dont really get a firepower advantage though because they have the same heat cap that heavies do.

the only way assaults get more firepower is to spam low heat ballistics. which were heavily nerfed on the clan side. CUACs are terrible now. And autocannons are so heavy on the IS side, theres only a few mechs like the annihilator that can spam them.

so I mean you can make a case for ballistic spamming assaults having bad mobility. but assaults that cant spam ballistics should absolutely get agility buffs. because they dont get the firepower advantage.

Perhaps instead buff the under performers rather than the class as a whole.
aka noisy cricket style cooldown buffs maybe, their by providing the firepower adv assaults are known for.
Edit: Could buff MASC on assault mechs with it, so that MASC mechs have a mobility boast.


Apparently Cyclopes have the agility of a 65 ton or so I recently read on the forums.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 07 August 2018 - 07:08 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Perhaps instead buff the under performers rather than the class as a whole.

I still believe at bare minimum all mechs should be able to reasonably torso twist

and all mechs should be able to accelerate fast enough to get out of an artillery radius in time

thats where the baseline should be set.

[Tarl Cabot]

The issue is that the engine desync happened at the same time as the new Skill Tree. Did we have an opportunity to really compare a non-skilled Mech with and without engine desync, seriously? And how many of us invest heavily that portion of the tree? How quickly did we burn through the points to get a mech kitted out, especially since there was no real thinking because it was the same across the board. The only "flavor" we had was the modules, primarily weapon cooldown and range followed by seismic sensor and radar dep.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 07 August 2018 - 07:14 PM.

[General Solo]

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

I still believe at bare minimum all mechs should be able to reasonably torso twist

When you have 52 tons of weapons I think that a trade of in mobility is only fair.
With the currently mobility levels I have no problems dealing with lights in my back 90% of the time.

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

and all mechs should be able to accelerate fast enough to get out of an artillery radius in time

Dunno about this
In my assault mechs I rarely bother moving due to air/arty strikes being pretty weak/spread and having alot of armour.
I guess if I'm stripped and red I would move, but I rarely find it a problem, kinda like lerms.
Edit: Still have moar than enough mobility to sidestep air strikes

Khobai, on 07 August 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

thats where the baseline should be set.

I disagree, I like the current mobility
It makes assault mechs feel like assault mechs and not oversized, over gunned, over armored heavy mechs.

The fact that every man and his dog can't be great at assaults mechs is also good, as assaults should not be the most common mech class fielded.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 07 August 2018 - 07:29 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

in the podcast they did say that they would look to assaults to perhaps get mobility buffs,
but dont expect assaults to play like heavies, or mediums, they are assaults,

[K O Z A K]

make timber great decent again

[Khobai]

Quote

but dont expect assaults to play like heavies, or mediums, they are assaults,

if you buff agility on everything thats a non-issue

[The Mysterious Fox]

I highly doubt whomever said on the podcast that dumping all your nodes into mobility will bring heavier mechs back onto pre-desync mobility considering how much additional post-desync mechs got base mobility nerfs.

mobility tree as is, is absolutely a worthless investment because percentage buffs absolutely promotes stat funneling. mobility tree needs to be implemented with absolute values along with base mobility buffs.

alot of the skill ceiling in this game is team work, but on an individual level, it is absolutely positioning and hitbox management, spreading hits around yourself and localising your damage onto the other players mech. agility is absolutely key for any mech at any weight which is why some lights and mediums are so much harder to kill than assaults, lag armor, suspect hitboxes and alot of speed and twisting.

Edited by The Mysterious Fox, 07 August 2018 - 09:31 PM.

[Josh Seles]

Mmm, yes. Re-buffing agility. Make torso twisting a thing again. A good counter to lasers by simply spreading damage.

Torso twisting was pretty effective even back in open beta when we had only IS lasers with nice, short burn times and no Clan lasers with overly long, nerfed durations. I'd like to see an increase in overall baseline agility, mainly twist speed, across the board for ALL mechs. Maybe a 10% boost would be ok, 15% tops.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

One of the best counters to pinpoint laser damage. Actually being able to move.

[Cato Zilks]

Bud Crue, on 07 August 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Go listen to the latest balance podcast (NGNG #165). Chris/Paul pretty much stated that with some exceptions engine desync has done what they wanted it to, and they gave only the single example of the Atlas as a mech in need of an agility buff. That isn't to say there aren't others that also need a buff, but they seemed to go to pains to emphasize that the slower/lower agility of many mechs today is working as intended. They also made the (mistaken in the case of many mechs) statement that by using the mobility tree one could return a given mech to its formerly mastered levels of agility. So they seem to think the less agile mechs of today are a consequence of player choice and not their desync/lower agility baseline numbers.

https://soundcloud.c...ye-chris-lowrey