20 replies to this topic

[rook]

I think the AS7-D-DC, AS7-S, and the AS7-BH should have armor quirks vs structure quirks. There's no reason that those 3 should be left behind compared to the others.

[Jackal Noble]

And the Blood Asp should have ST armor quirks....

[Spheroid]

The reason is the hardpoints are better. The armor offsets this weakness.

[rook]

Spheroid, on 13 August 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

The reason is the hardpoints are better. The armor offsets this weakness.

I guess my response to that is that the hardpoints are inferior to most other 100 ton mechs in all cases for the atlas. All around the Anni has much better (and more numerous) hardpoints, all with armor quirks.

[Jackal Noble]

Oh you mean like the Kodiak Spirit Bear? Fix that and you can have your awesome IS quirks.

[Nightbird]

All the Atlas are basically junk :shrug: armor or structure it matters not

[Battlemaster56]

If you looking for armor on a Atlas I suggest the D variant it have more armor than annhilators, plus even if those variants get armor quirks they gonna get near half of what the others get seeing it affect more than qp balance espically the S.

[Monkey Lover]

Atlas just needs to be able to twist again. Doesnt matter how many quirks it has if you cant protect your ct.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 August 2018 - 10:19 PM.

[VitriolicViolet]

eh Black Knights have the same problem, but unlike that Atlas the ones with the structure quirks are the worst variants.
the 6 and 6B get stuck with structure quirks vs the 7, 7L and P getting armor quirks. the difference ends up being huge and makes no sense especially for the 6 as it has the least weapon hardpoints of them all

[rook]

Jackal Noble, on 13 August 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

Oh you mean like the Kodiak Spirit Bear? Fix that and you can have your awesome IS quirks.

I'm not against that. I don't play/own a Spirit Bear, so I don't know what ales it.

Battlemaster56, on 13 August 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

If you looking for armor on a Atlas I suggest the D variant it have more armor than annhilators, plus even if those variants get armor quirks they gonna get near half of what the others get seeing it affect more than qp balance espically the S.

Atlas is my favorite mech, I look at them all. With only 2 or less missle hardpoints, the -D, -K, -RS, and -BH all lean either twards an MRM+big ballistic or (SN)PPS+big ballistic type of build. I was looking to get back to a more efficient brawler with the 3+ SRM + big ballistic build.

Monkey Lover, on 13 August 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

Atlas just needs to be able to twist again. Doesnt matter how many quirks it has if you cant protect your ct.

Don't disagree with that, but I think agility as a whole needs to be addressed across the board.

[East Indy]

Absolutely. The structure quirks are an oversight from a years-old game state.

Having dropped several hundred times in AS7s, I'm confident when I say the only range that Atlas loadouts can possibly run is bad to worse. Nothing in a D-DC, S or Boar's Head makes up for a lack of armor, especially when weapons tend to crit out immediately.

Atlases are so far behind other assaults it's a marvel what buffs you could apply and still leave them balanced. Side torsos are so crucial yet so easily targeted, they could use literally another 30 bonus armor before players finally felt as if rolling damage were possible. If Chris Lowrey wasn't stringently opposed to strong offensive quirks the weakest Atlases could take on upwards of 20% cooldown and heat generation buffs without standing out. Hardpoints and geometry rule in this game, and the AS7 has neither.

[Khobai]

rook, on 13 August 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

I guess my response to that is that the hardpoints are inferior to most other 100 ton mechs in all cases for the atlas. All around the Anni has much better (and more numerous) hardpoints, all with armor quirks.

thats a bit disingenuous. the annihilator is the best assault in the game. every other assault is inferior compared to the annihilator.

theres nothing wrong with the atlas' hardpoints. UAC20 + MRM60 is one of the better loadouts. Its 100 damage for a ridiculously low 33 heat.

the Atlas' biggest problem is getting into brawling range because of how unbalanced PGI made long range weapons and how badly the Atlas' agility got nerfed.

Edited by Khobai, 14 August 2018 - 08:00 AM.

[JediPanther]

Atlas makes a good lrm boat these days. The weapons get critted out so fast. The right torso always gets focused first so I don't bother with any ac there. The rt of a hunch back last longer. Most the weapons in the torso at waist level so you still have to expose half the mech to not hit dirt and air. I've killed so much ground my atlas is a planet core-ing monster.

70-80 armor arms doesn't do jack you can cut those down to half because you can't turn the torso for crap. Just torso twist speed increased by 50% would make the atlas something better than a bigger lrm boat. Now it's painfully outdated and too weak compared to nearly ever other assault. Like trying to win an indy 500 on a golf cart while everyone else has actual cars.

[MechaBattler]

They should do a 'performance feedback' thread once a month. Where they pick three or four mechs from each faction and ask for feedback on which variants are under performing for their weight class. Then coraborate the feedback with their data to see which are truly underused. And based on feedback what can be done to shore them up.

[FupDup]

To be fair, structure quirks on torso hitboxes lets you survive more rear damage in addition to frontal damage, while armor quirks are only for the front.

However, a mech of that size already has a lot of default structure anyways so it's not that important, plus you can minimize the rear damage risk by playing around it (positioning, teamwork, etc.). The rear damage thing is more useful for small gundams that have a low default HP pool.

Edited by FupDup, 14 August 2018 - 10:45 AM.

[rook]

Khobai, on 14 August 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

thats a bit disingenuous. the annihilator is the best assault in the game. every other assault is inferior compared to the annihilator.

theres nothing wrong with the atlas' hardpoints. UAC20 + MRM60 is one of the better loadouts. Its 100 damage for a ridiculously low 33 heat.

the Atlas' biggest problem is getting into brawling range because of how unbalanced PGI made long range weapons and how badly the Atlas' agility got nerfed.

Fair enough, the anni is above the rest. It's purely a want for me, I like the Atlas more as a stype preference, knowing that it may always be middle of the road because of it's shape/side/hit boxes, hardpoint locations, etc.

I'm not a fan of MRM's, and I'd like the option of using SRMs, which feel less useful if I only have 2x SRM6s.

FupDup, on 14 August 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

To be fair, structure quirks on torso hitboxes lets you survive more rear damage in addition to frontal damage, while armor quirks are only for the front.

However, a mech of that size already has a lot of default structure anyways so it's not that important, plus you can minimize the rear damage risk by playing around it (positioning, teamwork, etc.). The rear damage thing is more useful for small gundams that have a low default HP pool.

I sometimes use my rear armor to soak LRM damage, keeps my front fresher.

[Monkey Lover]

FupDup, on 14 August 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

To be fair, structure quirks on torso hitboxes lets you survive more rear damage in addition to frontal damage, while armor quirks are only for the front.

However, a mech of that size already has a lot of default structure anyways so it's not that important, plus you can minimize the rear damage risk by playing around it (positioning, teamwork, etc.). The rear damage thing is more useful for small gundams that have a low default HP pool.

I be ok with structure if weapons didnt get crit so fast. Little machine gun light will eat it up.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 14 August 2018 - 09:16 PM.

[Nightbird]

Needs 50% more agility, accel decel twist turn pitch. It pilots like a kodiak without weapons

[Khobai]

rook, on 14 August 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of MRM's, and I'd like the option of using SRMs, which feel less useful if I only have 2x SRM6s.

SRMs dont really compete with MRMs though. You cant get anywhere near 60 damage alphas with SRMs like you can with MRM60. And SRMs are much shorter range too.

Thats part of the problem with Atlas brawlers (the other part being the agility nerfs). SRMs just arnt where they need to be compared to MRMs. The Atlas-S really suffers from SRM4s and SRM6s not being as strong as they should be.

They did recently buff the SRM6 with a slightly faster cooldown, that was a step in the right direction, but it still wasnt enough to make SRMs better than MRMs under 270m. SRMs need to be buffed even more. SRMs should be absolutely devastating under 270m and theyre just not.

PGI needs to increase IS-SRM damage to 2.3 per missile. And 2.15 for C-SRMs. That and give the atlas back its lost agility. And give it a torso pitch buff (its torso pitch is a JOKE). Make Atlas brawlers scary again.

Monkey Lover, on 14 August 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

I be ok with structure if weapons didnt get crit so fast. Little machine gun light will eat it up.

The atlas gets built-in crit chance reduction though. Its weapons dont get critted out very often even with structure quirks instead of armor quirks. Its really a non-issue on the atlas.

I just dont see structure quirks as being a big problem. The atlas has way bigger problems than that.

Edited by Khobai, 14 August 2018 - 09:57 PM.

[Dogstar]

Jackal Noble, on 13 August 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

Blah blah blah

It's generally considered pretty bad behaviour to attempt to derail a discussion and here you are on your second attempt