453 replies to this topic

[Lawrence Elsa]

Chados, on 21 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

The changes in the FP thread show that PGI’s fix for the low FP population is to throw freelancers and solos into the lions’ den to provide cannon fodder for 12-man high end FP groups like the EVILs, KComs, etc. of the world. Nerfing missiles and buffing ECM isn’t going to feed more targets into the FP queue if MC bait in big events like the current one isn’t going to do it.

So changes that effect solo que, Group que, and Faction Que were designed to make sure players who were less skilled than skilled pre-mades couldn't beat them in a mode designed to not have any ELO?
You actually wanted a weapon that closed a skill gap and are mad that you need to aim more?
How is that conducive to how video games are supposed to work, and what's gonna stop other teams like [No name and shame] who have already spammed LRMs with coordinated LRM and narc carriers?

[Hiten Bongz]

Movano, on 21 August 2018 - 02:45 AM, said:

So the TL;DR of this thread is: People are mad because they have to aim a little more and a weapon system that was said to work one way and didn't is being corrected after 6 years.

Not really, because it's not just ONE weapon system being affected (LRMs). It's Streaks, ATMs, and LRMs. The LRMs - which are the real target of the nerf - are going to be the LEAST affected by the changes, meanwhile the real casualties are ATMs and Streaks (both of which are typically fired much closer to the target). Potato LRMers will just drop Artemis for more ammo and heat sinks, and be more encouraged to play like a coward since locks are actually harder to obtain. No incentive to move that *** out of cover at all now.

[Bishop Six]

Ninjah, on 21 August 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

About maps & chokepoints: FP siege maps almost never have issues with LRMs. Only several LRM builds will work, almost all having jump jets for raining from the sky. Boreal is a LRM friendly map but way too defender friendly and it needs serious work anyway. Maps that have LRM issues are the QP maps that got shoved into FP with little consideration. In FP you get to set your deck according to the map and that's where the trouble begins... I personally believe that all this preparation for the map, build strategies and planning add a great bit of depth to MWO compared by the random, flat and boring QP soup off all s**t that could possibly come together at some point, totally disoriented and lost. So it's a right decision to build the balance around Faction Play. Hope PGI stays on this course.

Dont forget this:

Playing Solo-QP is ridiculous because of this Solo-Yolo-LeroyJenkins-MichealSchumacher-Nascar-Race.

Running into circles to eat slow mechs until the last die... i mean wtf...go play robber&gendarme.

I would play QP without this behaviour, but in this state atm, it is fun like eating from a trashcan.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

I'm not really sure what you're asking here? Anyways, ATMs and Streaks can't be fired indirectly and those are the affected missile systems being nerfed that I am complaining about and not so much LRMs (although like I said, this was NOT the way to properly nerf LRMs, either).

ATMs can be fired indirectly, and you don't need lock to fire them either.

Streaks got buffed, unless you mean requiring aiming more is now a nerf in which case I might have two terribly misspelled words for that.

[admiralbenbow123]

D79, on 21 August 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

I welcome the patch and look forward to testing how it affects the game. The marginal tweaks to chassis is better than sweeping changes previously. I am slightly surprised that the two main overperforming areas (IMO) weren’t addressed: dual heavy Gauss on IS assaults and Clan lights boating MGs. As a predominately IS medium pilot, 50 heatless pinpoint damage is lethal. The mechanics for MGs are good but not when coupled with recent hardpoint inflation. I’m not advocating a nerf but a minor adjustment to make all play styles viable.

Here are some tips for you:
1) Don't want do die from 2x heavy gauss assaults? It,s simple: don't stand in front of them. You should have enough time to react and get back to cover before they charge up their gauss rifles and shoot you. Also, any assault mech with 2x HGR isn't fast enough to get close to you quickly, so keep moving and repositioning and you won't die.
2) Don't want to die from piranhas with 12 MGs? It's also simple: don't separate yourself from your team. Even piranhas with so many machine guns need to stare at you for about 5-7 seconds while not moving much to actually do enough damage to one component, which is enough time for your team to either kill a piranha or at least damage it enough and make it run away.
I hope these tips help you

[Hiten Bongz]

denAirwalkerrr, on 21 August 2018 - 02:54 AM, said:

Try firing ATMs without lock. You’ll be shocked.

Not really, I already know you can dumbfire ATMs. They have less velocity than an AC20, too slow to hit anything on their own besides a stationary target. Could be possible to use them like a poor-mans SRM at close range (only) with that trash tier velocity, but oh wait we have that 130m zero damage dead zone still. Hm.

Story Time, on 21 August 2018 - 03:01 AM, said:

ATMs can be fired indirectly, and you don't need lock to fire them either.

Streaks got buffed, unless you mean requiring aiming more is now a nerf in which case I might have two terribly misspelled words for that.

Yeah, you can fire them indirectly right into the terrain every time. LOL. They have an almost flat trajectory, it's not even CLOSE to the same as LRM trajectory. Even using them on something with very high mounts it's impossible to lob them over hills etc...this is not even something to discuss, they are useless as indirect fire weapons.

Streaks got an effective nerf with the removal of Artemis buffing them. A bit more than just "more aiming required."

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 21 August 2018 - 03:08 AM.

[NUMBERZero1032]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

ATMs and Streaks can't be fired indirectly and those are the affected missile systems being nerfed that I am complaining about

They're not being nerfed, they're being fixed. Artemis bonus being applied to those was a bug and an exploit - never intended. So stop complainig about taking away your crutch, and that goes for the rest of you too.

[Pelmeshek]

"Perfect" patch. Also whine of unskilled lrm players are just delicious.


interesting, can i break 2k after patch with this low skill weapon?

[YouKnowNothing]

Ninjah, on 21 August 2018 - 01:35 AM, said:

This LRM/missle nerf was needed. Why? Because LRMs and Narc were just too OP if used by a premade group with a Narc mech for each wave. If you're complaining about LRMs you should've joined a FP match just to lose 4 mech in under 5 minutes to Narc and LRMs. Is that fun? NO! We lost a lot of players who got annoyed by dying a lot from no-skill weapon without any chance to do something about it, where their skills meant nothing.

It is too easy to lock on. Hell I don't lose lock even if the target is in the lower right and my targeting reticule is in the upper left part of the screen sometimes.

So I don't care about your s**t spam boats, learn to use something else, being able to do almost 2k damage in QP with a lrm boat is just insane. No other weapon system is able to do it. So stop being so selfish, screaming "MAH LURMS, MAH STREAKS". When I jump in front of a streak boat in a light mech by accident I know I'm dead in 3 volleys and if I somehow manage to escape my light is already wrecked and useless by a noob who doesn't even have to aim. This often happens in places without any cover so your arguments fail, not to mention additional LRM spam on my mech who already got locked. Playing lights is a freaking nightmare, hopefully it'll be somewhat better now.

PGI could've chosen a much more elegant way to do this but these changes were needed badly and I support them fully.

Ninjah, your post describes exactly my feelings and opinions regarding LRM use and LRM users. So, with 0 regrets on my conscience, I'm informing you that your post will be my official copy-pasta response to anyone I see defending LRMs in the future, here on the (fromer) Brown Sea and everywhere else.

[Hiten Bongz]

NUMBERZero1032, on 21 August 2018 - 03:05 AM, said:

They're not being nerfed, they're being fixed. Artemis bonus being applied to those was a bug and an exploit - never intended. So stop complainig about taking away your crutch, and that goes for the rest of you too.

Why don't you learn to read before talking down to people?

1. Artemis is losing 2 out of 3 bonuses (lock time, tracking).
2. ATMs have Artemis built into the launchers.
3. Hence, ATMs are nerfed out of 2/3 bonuses.

I never complaining about the double-stacking of Artemis being fixed.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

"PPC/Gauss requires no skill and was boring, I'm glad its dead!"
"Lasers require no skill because it's point and click!"
"Clan Gauss shake will make Gaussvomit players require more skill and face time!"

>LRM/streak boaters now have to aim more carefully and indirect LRM boaters need to expose more for accuracy

"They're nerfing LRMs into the dirt, it will take forever to acquire lock and I'll die!"

[Holy Jackson]

I'm failing to see any case where Artemis is worth the extra ton and crit slot per launcher now. please consider having some sort of lock time boost or putting the spread back to a smaller value or else it is wasted space in the mechlab.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

Why don't you learn to read before talking down to people?

1. Artemis is losing 2 out of 3 bonuses (lock time, tracking).
2. ATMs have Artemis built into the launchers.
3. Hence, ATMs are nerfed out of 2/3 bonuses.

I never complaining about the double-stacking of Artemis being fixed.

*intentionally ignores velocity buff for compensation to make post more whiny*

[Hiten Bongz]

denAirwalkerrr, on 21 August 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

*intentionally ignores velocity buff for compensation to make post more whiny*

No, you just haven't read the entire thread apparently:

Hiten Bongz, on 20 August 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Honestly, a 10% velocity buff feels like a spit in the face as some kind of recompense compared to what you could have done (replace deadzone with linearly scaled damage, etc.)

And you know full well, if you have more than one live brain cell, that a 20 m/s velocity buff is NOT going to be proper compensation for doubling the lock time and making them overall more difficult to acquire and maintain locks.

Pelmeshek, on 21 August 2018 - 03:05 AM, said:

"Perfect" patch. Also whine of unskilled lrm players are just delicious.

interesting, can i break 2k after patch with this low skill weapon?

Pretty much proving my point as to how potato LRM play isn't affected by these changes, meanwhile usability of ATMs and Streaks WILL be noticeable...

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 21 August 2018 - 03:32 AM.

[Kirito Kerenksy]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

Pretty much proving my point as to how potato LRM play isn't affected by these changes, meanwhile usability of ATMs and Streaks WILL be noticeable...

Yeah, noticeable because buffed. Remember our talk about that aiming area?

[Pelmeshek]

Hiten Bongz, on 21 August 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

Pretty much proving my point as to how potato LRM play isn't affected by these changes, meanwhile usability of ATMs and Streaks WILL be noticeable...

haHA

Nema Nabojiv, on 21 August 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

GJ nerfing streaks. They were so op, right?

Fire this idiot already

Vellron2005, on 20 August 2018 - 11:34 PM, said:

Any chance you can comment on why you're running LRMs into the ground? Why you removed LRM bending completely out of the game?

How about why you're doing a humongous change to LRMs without a PTS, and about how that is unfair to LRM users compared to laser and Gauss users that had PTS playtests and basically gave you a resounding "hell no" to both?

In my humble opinion, LRMs are one of the weaker weapons in the game, and your balancing will make them even worse, and the reason why you're nerfing them is because suddenly, people have actually begun playing them, and having fun with them, and have shown you that literally anything when used properly, by people who know how, and in large volume can be deadly..

I guess now we have to start using flamers or something...

I have to admit.. PGI's treatment of LRMs and LRM users feels like we're second class players..

Chados, on 20 August 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Far as I’m concerned, job one is to drop Artemis off all my missile mechs.

Job two is to park them. They’re all trash tier now.

This nerf has simply made the old saw true, that LRMs are bad and only bads LRM. This nerf is geared to one and only one kind of LRM play: Hanging back as far as possible and boating. The most spudly play with that system. It’s going to be a lot of fun for Locusts and Piranhas, because hunting season is officially open tomorrow night. Glad I’m able to half-*** aim nowadays and spend a lot of time under 40 tons. If this nerf had hit two years ago when I was running Catapults as primary I’d be hanging up the game.

Jonathan8883, on 20 August 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

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This is more than 50%.

Area of a circle with radius 60 units (blue): 11309 square units
Area of a circle with radius 100 units (orange): 31416 square units

Reduction in area going from radius 100 to radius 600: 64%

Missile lock-on target area has been nerf-bludgeoned by approximately 64%.

At this point, if you can hold a missile lock on something, it's more efficient just to shoot lasers or ballistics at it, since anything that misses the target would also lose the lock.

Guess I'll break out my locusts tomorrow.

Nothing actully changed because are player base are so much unskilled how like this guys.

Edited by Pelmeshek, 21 August 2018 - 03:31 AM.

[Hiten Bongz]

Pelmeshek, on 21 August 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

Nothing actully changed.

...for LRMs.

[denAirwalkerrr]

LRM enthusiasts never change...

[HammerMaster]

MiZia, on 21 August 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

Tbh if u want to bring Lurmers in front u got to make sight lock instant while making non sight locks take ages, only mitigated by Narc or Tag. Like 10 seconds on non sight mechs, 50% less if Narced/Tagged.

This!

[Bishop Six]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 22 August 2018 - 08:48 PM.
unconstructive, replies removed