10 replies to this topic

[Uakari]

So, for example 1,30 Heat Management with SHS and with DHS. Number is the same.

Are both build as heat efficient or are are more SHS better than less DHS, even if both show 1,30?

[Karl Streiger]

Uakari, on 21 August 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

So, for example 1,30 Heat Management with SHS and with DHS. Number is the same.

Are both build as heat efficient or are are more SHS better than less DHS, even if both show 1,30?

are you talking about that cryptic value in the mechlab?

you have two relevant values - heat threshhold (ALPHA potential) and heat dissipation (sustained DPS potential)

even with the changes on the latests PTS the SHS is always inferior (simple because of the mass they consume)
There might be builds that work better with SHS but those are already shity builds to begin with

[Uakari]

yeah, that cryptic value in the mechlab.

Ther are some builds where SHS weems vialbe, e.g. my battlemaster with 5 er large lasers. Or the Banshee 3 S all energy. Also got SHS on my Atlas Kraken with 4 med lasers and a MRM 60.

So i was asking myself, if SHS might be superior if you go for full coolrun, because you would have like 10 more heatsinks on the build. Also on some IS mechs the heat sink slots are very limited.

[panzer1b]

One, dont bother with the mechlab value for heat management, its BS imo since it doesnt really give you the most important thing, sustained DPS, nor does it tell you the maximum damage you can put out either. All i can say is the built in game value just gives you a very rough idea of what your build will do. Essentially dont drop below 1.0 heat management (virtually every build ive ever ran below 1.0 was too hot to contribute to the team), and dont go above 1.6 unless its something with gauss or ballistics or possibly brawl builds. Almost every energy build ive made that had more then 1.6 never realistically heatcapped and that means you are wasting potential alfa strike on sustain that rarely if ever gets used in this game (essentially you will either die well b4 you cook if you are exposed all that time, and you wont even go close to cooking if you fire sporadically like 90% of games require you to).

As for SHS vs DHS, NEVER EVER use SHS as its nothing more then a gimmicky joke build. Ive seen some videos of people running SHS boats, and they may have a hair more sustained DPS and a higher heatcap, but the loss of either alfa strike or mobility is almost always a terrible choice since your mech wont be able to get into a good position like ever when it moves at 32kph and gets ran over by nascaring lights and mediums.

If you are looking for a higher DPS, select alternative weapons, like swapping ER lasers for regular or pulse variants (regular have medium DPS, pulses have the highest for any given number of heatsinks, and actually with pulses sacrificing a few DHS will still net you a higher sustained DPS despite feeling hotter), or even replacing lasers with ballistics. Energy weapons (with a few rare exceptions like pulse lasers on niche builds) really arent a DPS weapon, and you should always use those weapons to their strengths, 1-2 precision alfa strikes, then fade and repeat from elsewhere. If you are cooking yourself because you want to keep shooting, get a dakka build and fire away, those are almost always superior to lasers of any form in a sustsained shooting gallery.

Also, as to the coolrun dilema, YES SHS benefit a bit more from it because there is more of them, but to gain those benefits it takes too many sacrifices elsewhere (mobility, pod space, ect). Still, ive found that heat generation (which doesnt require taking so many filler skills like fast startup or hill climb) coupled with slightly more heat efficient weapons (normal and pulse lasers) yields better performance heat wise, just at the cost of range (all the truly powerful weapons are sadly range capped right now). SHS+max cool run might make a good turret on defensive siege maps with range (i hate you boreal vault), but if you wanna be a turret, just hop in a anni with tons of ballistics and go nuts, prolly one of the best turrets in the game right now since its about the only thing id feel comfortable just staring 2-3 enemies down given some range between us.

Edited by panzer1b, 21 August 2018 - 11:10 AM.

[FupDup]

panzer1b, on 21 August 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

As for SHS vs DHS, NEVER EVER use SHS as its nothing more then a gimmicky joke build. Ive seen some videos of people running SHS boats, and they may have a hair more sustained DPS and a higher heatcap, but the loss of either alfa strike or mobility is almost always a terrible choice since your mech wont be able to get into a good position like ever when it moves at 32kph and gets ran over by nascaring lights and mediums.

Actually, there are some very very niche circumstances like a laser vomit Supernova that can boat enough SHS to have somewhat of an upgrade over DHS (and it lacks the engine cap needed to fully take advantage of DHS). But that's really about it.

[Y E O N N E]

BNC-3S with 5x ERLL also benefitted from SHS boating for the same reasons as the SNV, though with the nerfed hardpoints there's somewhat less of a point to it now.

[Magnus Santini]

Ahem. A couple of the smaller light mechs need to run SHS because you can't carry enough doubles without sacrificing something else like engine size or slots.

[DrxAbstract]

Karl Streiger, on 21 August 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

are you talking about that cryptic value in the mechlab?

you have two relevant values - heat threshhold (ALPHA potential) and heat dissipation (sustained DPS potential)

even with the changes on the latests PTS the SHS is always inferior (simple because of the mass they consume)
There might be builds that work better with SHS but those are already shity builds to begin with

Eeehhhh... Granted it's a for fun build, but my 9 med laser Black Knight uses singles stacked on singles for a laughably absurd dissipation rate allowing it to fire for days almost literally. A 45 alpha is nothing to scoff at either. I guess it depends how much thought you really want to put into it?

[Karl Streiger]

DrxAbstract, on 23 August 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Eeehhhh... Granted it's a for fun build, but my 9 med laser Black Knight uses singles stacked on singles for a laughably absurd dissipation rate allowing it to fire for days almost literally. A 45 alpha is nothing to scoff at either. I guess it depends how much thought you really want to put into it?

well a 9mlas heavy is exactly the definition of poor build. the only reason that it could work is that the Devs never were able to understand or translate some basis stuff like range brackets or hit location probability.

Well the question is only would your build with a bigger engine, endosteel and DHS for 6meds and 2 long range energy weapons be better.
given the usually slugfast of battles maybe not.

[DrxAbstract]

Karl Streiger, on 23 August 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

well a 9mlas heavy is exactly the definition of poor build. the only reason that it could work is that the Devs never were able to understand or translate some basis stuff like range brackets or hit location probability.

Well the question is only would your build with a bigger engine, endosteel and DHS for 6meds and 2 long range energy weapons be better.
given the usually slugfast of battles maybe not.

The principle reasons why I said it was a 'fun' build is A. Short-ish range, B. Runs an XL and C. Slow nature of Medium Lasers versus Pulses.

It may lend itself well to short range fighting, but the re-fire rate of Medium Lasers is also a bit counter intuitive to that. It works out very well if nobody is focusing you... But the same can be said for a lot of other builds.

[PobbestGob]

The heat management stat is virtually useless. You can read about it here:
https://mech.nav-alpha.com/pgiheat/
SHS are rarely better than DHS, but there are about two or three builds where there's enough free tonnage to boat enough SHS to win over DHS, particularly for IS which usually starves for slots from the 3-slot DHS.