17 replies to this topic

[Cato Zilks]

Alright, it sounds like Paul wants some threads for specific subjects. Lets have one for maps that need tweaking.

Polar Highlands' invisible hills was mentioned in podcast, so he has that one on his radar.

Boreal Vault can be a bit nasty to open the gates on when the oppo has 60 ERLLs. The minimap also looks like a penis. The map could use some tweaks.

[Cato Zilks]

On a more general note, the QP dropzones were clearly not picked for FP and need to be changed. Ideally, we would move the DZ's together like Polar Highlands and the areas would be picked with an eye towards respawns to fake farming less easy.

Some bad examples include:
River City, Domination, H7
River City, Assault?, D4
Crimson Straights, Skirmish, C3
Caustic Valley, Skirmish, D6
Forrest Colony, Assault, L9
Tourmaline, Skirmish, E3 & G7
Tourmaline, Assault, E4

[MW Waldorf Statler]

like the Wall Placement in Crimson by the Container Railway Station ..make the Spawnzone like a Prison Maze

[Khobai]

id like to see more done to discourage spawn camping

the dropships just dont hit hard enough or frequently enough to force the other team out of your spawn

some indestructible pulse laser turrets would be nice. you should not be able to walk into the other team's spawn without getting completely obliterated. spawn camping is fun for no one.



As for boreal vault, i think the problem is more the ERLL than boreal vault.

ERLL should not have like 1600+ range. thats utterly stupid. in tabletop the ERLL has less range than LRMs.

they need to lower x2 max range to like x1.6 max range. theyve given weapons waaaay too much range. especially the ER weapons like the ERLL and ERPPC.

Edited by Khobai, 21 August 2018 - 09:13 PM.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Khobai, on 21 August 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

in tabletop the ERLL has less range than LRMs.

Buddha on a flying carpet! Don't give them ideas! They read what you wrote there and might tripple LRM speed and range.

As for Boreal Vault, the map is the problem. A map where the defenders can shoot* at the spawn sites from within the base (even when the gates are still closed) is seriously flawed.


*or send artie and strikes

[Cato Zilks]

Khobai, on 21 August 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

the dropships just dont hit hard enough or frequently enough to force the other team out of your spawn

some indestructible pulse laser turrets would be nice. you should not be able to walk into the other team's spawn without getting completely obliterated. spawn camping is fun for no one.

Moving the drop points together means they won't be pushing DZ's as much because the pushing team is almost guaranteed not to have a numbers advantage. Polar dropzones do not get pushed as much in part because three dropships will shoot you and 12 mechs drop into that area. Moving the DZ's together also does not add encouragements to hide in the dropzone.

Khobai, on 21 August 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

As for boreal vault, i think the problem is more the ERLL than boreal vault.

ERLL should not have like 1600+ range. thats utterly stupid. in tabletop the ERLL has less range than LRMs.
they need to lower x2 max range to like x1.6 max range. theyve given weapons waaaay too much range. especially the ER weapons like the ERLL and ERPPC.

Ok, lurms can be op on that map, large lasers can be op on that map. AC2's? Jesus! 72 AC2's is a team DPS of 200 at very long ranges, with very manageable heat, and they are shooting at least once every second. Hell, if your team is fast you can get up to the gate and use short range stuff to hit the poor guys trying to open the gate. It is way too exposed.

[Yondu Udonta]

Generally all modes except Domination for Forest Colony has terrible spawn locations. I take 2-3mins just to converge with my team when I drop in a ~50kph mech. Alpine Peaks Assault also has one terrible spawn point in the valley near Gamma in Conquest

[iLLcapitan]

Boreal is fun to attack, I don't get the salt.
One gategen is rly easy to open from the right spot, the other side requires a lemmings march - your choice.
Also the good ol dirty lrm trick still works.

[Natural Predator]

I agree boreal is fun to attack, but it should probably be a bit easier to take down the gen from the attacker side.

[LordNothing]

penis. lol. short of a complete redesign idk how you would fix that.

setup time is critical on boreal vault for the attackers. if you dont get your conga lines ready immediately you might as well write off the whole match. a few more buildings on the defending side of the gate might make things easier once you get in. but you still have to set up that conga. you can either move up the drop zone to the base of the hill or stick a couple of new hills that give you a view of the generator but well outside of the effective range of the longest range weapons in the game.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 August 2018 - 08:28 PM.

[iLLcapitan]

LordNothing, on 22 August 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

penis. lol. short of a complete redesign idk how you would fix that.

setup time is critical on boreal vault for the attackers. if you dont get your conga lines ready immediately you might as well write off the whole match. a few more buildings on the defending side of the gate might make things easier once you get in. but you still have to set up that conga. you can either move up the drop zone to the base of the hill or stick a couple of new hills that give you a view of the generator but well outside of the effective range of the longest range weapons in the game.

Nope, nope, nope. Theres at least 2 different approaches to open one of the gates and one of them is rly cheesy and requires zero exposure. Why would you still congoline after all these years, learn the maps and think outside the box!

[Khobai]

Rick T Dangerous, on 21 August 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Buddha on a flying carpet! Don't give them ideas! They read what you wrote there and might tripple LRM speed and range.

As for Boreal Vault, the map is the problem. A map where the defenders can shoot* at the spawn sites from within the base (even when the gates are still closed) is seriously flawed.


*or send artie and strikes

again thats only a problem because of weapon ranges

weapons like the ERLL have way too much range

its not really even defensible, if you look at the range of the ERLL compared to other weapons, its way out of whack. Hitscan weapons should not be able to do damage out to 1600m-2000m. That is completely dumb.

Max range of certain weapons like the ERLL need to be reeled in to make Boreal Vault a better map.

Edited by Khobai, 23 August 2018 - 12:36 AM.

[LordNothing]

iLLcapitan, on 22 August 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

Nope, nope, nope. Theres at least 2 different approaches to open one of the gates and one of them is rly cheesy and requires zero exposure. Why would you still congoline after all these years, learn the maps and think outside the box!

conga lines still get the doors down faster because everyone is pumping a full alpha into the gen. rather than that one spot where a mech or two can stand and shoot the gen, being limited by their heat of course. conga line also gets you into position to perform an immediate push.

[Khalcruth]

Yondu Udonta, on 22 August 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

I take 2-3mins just to converge with my team when I drop in a ~50kph mech.

Well, there's your problem right there. Don't do that.

[Cato Zilks]

Khalcruth, on 23 August 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

Well, there's your problem right there. Don't do that.

Yondu is right, over the course of a match on Forrest Colony we waste ~8 minutes per match forming up (3,2,2,1) It is stupid, move the dropzones together and we get more game time devoted to playing.

[Wing 0]

I wrote this awhile back only on what we have right now. things that can be done with current maps and modes etc.

Domination:

1:30 too short of time. Like to see teams having a second chance to getting the zone after it was taken. maybe a 4:00 or a 3:00 timer would work? something to look into.

The DZ's do need a redo. Whoever was the idiot that made those DZ's for RiverCity Domination should be FIRED. Cato had screen shots in one of his threads that mentioned it and they are crap.

Conquest:

Need to raise the goal to 1600 from 1230.

Assault:

We need to have several turrets surrounding the base. Its not skirmish sadly so turrets should've been in the FP version instead.

We need a 10 or 15 min time capping restriction meaning you cant base rush in the firs 10 or 15 minutes at the start of the game. This is just to keep fights lasting more than 5 minutes. Ive seen several games having a similar rule in their modes and it seems to work. maybe paul should look into that.

I did write something about incursion awhile back but I have nothing good to talk about that mode.

Siege:

Going to keep this short on what needs to be done with what we have currently.

Boreal Vault

The areas of I6 ,I7, H5, and H6 need fixing. borderlines were left unfixed.

H8 the mountain area between the DZ and Omega Gun needs to be completely unclimbable.

G7 Need the mountain areas there to be reworked on. Some people mentioned that area needs fixing and it needs it.

The gate gens do need to be a little more easier to deal with to open the gate. Where they are setup now, LRM boats tend to scare pilots off pretty badly.

Sulfurous Rift

C3 we caught an idiot glitching there on purpose, one nice arty killed the idiot hiding there for conducting unconstructive purposes. surely you will fix that right?

Emerald Taiga

F4 The mountain needs to be higher. We've seen too many ppl sniping from F3 DZ Spawn area. That little gap is not a problem but the mountain in between needs to be where they have to go down and get into the fight.

Grim Portico

The out of bounds alert is not working properly in many areas near the gates and we've seen people committing suicide and we know that was not intentional of them doing that. annoying bug that still hasn't been fixed.

Edited by Wing 0, 23 August 2018 - 03:45 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 21 August 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

ERLL should not have like 1600+ range. thats utterly stupid. in tabletop the ERLL has less range than LRMs.

they need to lower x2 max range to like x1.6 max range. theyve given weapons waaaay too much range. especially the ER weapons like the ERLL and ERPPC.

Do you know how much damage ERL are doing at 1600m+? Guess not due to such an uneducated statement. Not entirely dissimilar to recent STATEMENTS and PEARLERs where you make some fanciful claim, get disproven with facts & numbers, then simply never reply... But then how can anyone refute fact in the face of fiction? Hopefully doing the maths once again below, hastens the previously exhibited behaviour. I honeslty grow a bit tired of having to dispell sooooo many unfounded statements around here.

So lets take a BLR-1G with 891m Optimal (The mech has a 10% range quirk too don't forget).

At your 1600m+ is only doing ~5dmg at that range for a full heat That is a damage reduction of 50pts of damage... Nearly 90% of it's payload. Given Assaults have ~80pts of torso armour it's going to take nearly 2mins, actually more, to open a torso doing that much damage esp once you count inaccuracy at long ranges/aim and opponent movement.

To be doing any useable amount of damage (and 6dmg is, barely, useable) with ERL and ERPPC @ 1600m+ you also need to be taking a big hit to DPS by taking out 3-4DHS and adding in a TC5+ so between 5-7T eaten up instantly as well as crit slots. This is a huge hit to overall DPS to be doing more than scratch damage at that range. Plus most mechs, at 1600m+ are doing nothing, absolutely nothing - 0 damage - with ERL. ERL and ERPPC are not a problem. The map design is.

Funnily enough map design is the purpose of this thread (Shock and horror face)

So - please - lets keep the discussion to map issues and not side-track into stuff that is totally unrelated. Especially not Weapon Balance - which you have demonstrated many times to not understand well at all. On top of that you don't regularly play FP, hell you haven't even played a single game of Quick Play in 3 months and much at all in the past 6 months... I reckon you've posted more on the forum than you've played games by a factor of at least 10. Enough of the rubbish, please. Keep that to Gen Disc.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 August 2018 - 09:43 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

*Smack* Sit the **** down!