46 replies to this topic

[Garfuncle]

Opinion time. I played a lot of games with competitive scenes in my time. Counterstrike 1.6, Quake Live, hell even Team Fortress 2. In their competitive configuration they all have similar attributes. Extremely fast gameplay with lightning reactions, consistent hit-box, movement, and weapon attributes and an emphasis on map design that isn't garbage. I'm gonna lay some truth on ya. MWO has none of that. Not only is it lacking those attributes, it is by design, utterly anti-competitive due to it's nature as a half-sim part arcade fps mashed with player character's (mechs) that are simply not balanced in any meaningful way.

For example, the M16 and AK from Counterstrike have fixed attributes, they will reliably do the exact same thing in every situation. In MWO a Large Laser will be affected by heat dissipation, quirks, hardpoint location, targeting computers, and environmental heat. In Counterstrike a headshot with an AK will kill the enemy with assured reliability. In MWO you have random crits, ammo explosions and gauss rifle explosions.

Random dice rolls that cannot be turned off, maps that change how mechanics work, not to mention the snails pace of MWO's general combat. Why is PGI even bothering with MWO's "Competitive Scene?" It is not on any Esport radar, it is not played by anyone remotely notable, it has no public visibility and is a waste of time and resources. Time would be better spent making actual content for the game than appealing to the absolutely microscopic "competitive" aspect of MWO.

[Bulletsponge0]

Garfuncle, on 21 September 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

Opinion time. I played a lot of games with competitive scenes in my time. Counterstrike 1.6, Quake Live, hell even Team Fortress 2. In their competitive configuration they all have similar attributes. Extremely fast gameplay with lightning reactions, consistent hit-box, movement, and weapon attributes and an emphasis on map design that isn't garbage. I'm gonna lay some truth on ya. MWO has none of that. Not only is it lacking those attributes, it is by design, utterly anti-competitive due to it's nature as a half-sim part arcade fps mashed with player character's (mechs) that are simply not balanced in any meaningful way.

For example, the M16 and AK from Counterstrike have fixed attributes, they will reliably do the exact same thing in every situation. In MWO a Large Laser will be affected by heat dissipation, quirks, hardpoint location, targeting computers, and environmental heat. In Counterstrike a headshot with an AK will kill the enemy with assured reliability. In MWO you have random crits, ammo explosions and gauss rifle explosions.

Random dice rolls that cannot be turned off, maps that change how mechanics work, not to mention the snails pace of MWO's general combat. Why is PGI even bothering with MWO's "Competitive Scene?" It is not on any Esport radar, it is not played by anyone remotely notable, it has no public visibility and is a waste of time and resources. Time would be better spent making actual content for the game than appealing to the absolutely microscopic "competitive" aspect of MWO.

MWO may be a FPS, but its Not suppose to be a twitch shooter...

[Mcgral18]

Garfuncle, on 21 September 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

It is not on any Esport radar, it is not played by anyone remotely notable, it has no public visibility

That goes for MWO as a whole

Edited by Mcgral18, 21 September 2018 - 04:03 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Garfuncle, on 21 September 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

Opinion time. I played a lot of games with competitive scenes in my time.

In MWO a Large Laser will be affected by heat dissipation, quirks, hardpoint location, targeting computers, and environmental heat.

So the first line explains, or well should explain, the 2nd line.

Just means it takes some skill / understanding. Not that hard for anyone that has played anything competitively.

Sounds like you're just salty from getting slapped silly in GroupQ last night by competent, competitive, players.

[Anjian]

MWO doesn't have the visibility for esports but slow doesn't stop other games. World of Tanks for example, has competitive esports venues.

[Monkey Lover]

The less this game is like Counterstrike the better

[YueFei]

Monkey Lover, on 21 September 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

The less this game is like Counterstrike the better

Different flavors of gaming and what-not, but I find that a lot of people who don't like Counterstrike tend to completely misunderstand it and think it's all 100% mechanics and twitch, when it's really a lot deeper than that.

I never played Counterstrike competitively, but my best friend did, so I may perhaps have a better understanding.

Like, if you don't know the rules of Gridiron Football, it looks like a brute force mass of men slamming into each other with no strategy. But if you delve deeper, there are all manner of tactics and counters involved, even at an individual level. Those 1v1 match-ups between O-Linemen and D-Linemen can be a thing to behold all on its own.

[MechaBattler]

It's not like it's going to jump in popularity over night if we made everything simpler and dumbed down the mechanics. We might get a few more people who would have otherwise not have the patience for it. But that's probably it. Changing the game to match other games would just ruin what makes this game unique.

[ShiverMeRivets]

The whole Esports concept is ********.
I couldn’t care less.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Is DOTA fast twitch response or LoL? This is supposed to be a team game where strategy, tactics and positioning mean as much as individual player skill. Half the game is won or lost in the mech lab with prior planning and design. What you have described is DEPTH. CS, TF2, Quake etc. are all shallow games with easily repeatable events like you have said.
I'm sorry that you dont like the additional depth and variation in the game, but to most of us that is what makes this game special, the planning, the design, the team play, all of which are brought over from the original table top game. I think you might have misunderstood what this game is supposed to represent.

[The6thMessenger]

I honestly don't see the "sport" in running around, shooting people with just a short burst of shells and drop, while the guy that shot you teabags your avatar, and said they slept with your mom and she's a fat-***.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 September 2018 - 01:20 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

The6thMessenger, on 22 September 2018 - 12:42 AM, said:

I honestly don't see the "sport" in running around, shooting people with just a short burst of shells and drop, while the guy that shot you said they slept with your mom and she's a fat-***.

Yo, not every comp team is infamously aligned with Smoke Jaguar.

[El Bandito]

I'm fine with MWO having its own comp scene, but PGI should not devote too much resources into it. I rather want more immersion.

[Shifty McSwift]

At times it operates like an FPS in slow motion, or an FPS where everyones guns are nerfed.

That might sound like a bad thing but its really not, there's a lot of fun within that TTK, a lot of panic time and time to call backup/respond in your moment of game life, rather than say ARMA where peeping half your face around the wrong edge will get you sniped by a guy 960m away, here for the most part sniping won't insta kill you (dem headshots though :\ ), even a point blank "shotty" to the chest wont necessarily kill you etc.

All that is fine, what tends to be annoying at times is people take that already slow pace, and try to slow it down even more, do things that might get them personally 2 kills in 15 minutes etc, or play like it is a twitch shooter, and refuse to utilise the differences the game provides with longer TTK and just stare endlessly at corners etc.

[Horseman]

Garfuncle, on 21 September 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

In their competitive configuration they all have similar attributes. Extremely fast gameplay with lightning reactions,

This is not a twitch shooter. Instead of comparing MWO to those games, start by comparing it to something that's conceptually closer... perhaps WOT or WOWS.

Quote

Why is PGI even bothering with MWO's "Competitive Scene?"

Probably because they saw player-ran competitive leagues such as MRBC and tried to capitalize on that.

YueFei, on 21 September 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

Different flavors of gaming and what-not, but I find that a lot of people who don't like Counterstrike tend to completely misunderstand it and think it's all 100% mechanics and twitch, when it's really a lot deeper than that.

Twitch seems to be OP's main argument, so...

Yeonne Greene, on 22 September 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

Yo, not every comp team is infamously aligned with Smoke Jaguar.

He may be referring to attitudes that are supposedly common in the CS/QL/TF2 crowd.

[Mystere]

ShiverMeRivets, on 21 September 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

The whole Esports concept is ********.
I couldn’t care less.

El Bandito, on 22 September 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

I'm fine with MWO having its own comp scene, but PGI should not devote too much resources into it. I rather want more immersion.

PGI should have restricted any and all eSports stuff to Solaris.

Edited by Mystere, 22 September 2018 - 05:28 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Garfuncle, on 21 September 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

stuff

I guess we just don't care about your opinion, or whom you think you are.

[x Deathstrike x]

C E Dwyer, on 22 September 2018 - 06:15 AM, said:

I guess we just don't care about your opinion, or whom you think you are.

And the same applies to you good Sir (and me as well).

[MischiefSC]

Competitive play is not a joke in MWO. MWO is a niche game with niche population. MWO competitive play is very strategic and has a lot of complexity you don't see in other comp games.

[Horseman]

MischiefSC, on 22 September 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

Competitive play is not a joke in MWO. MWO is a niche game with niche population. MWO competitive play is very strategic and has a lot of complexity you don't see in other comp games.

Yes, well... you are talking to an OP who thinks twitch gameplay and mechanic simplicity are mandatory.