35 replies to this topic

[Vyx]

Presently, UACs -- particularly Clan UACs -- suck.

The spray of pellets tends to spread the damage over several components, unless the target is stock-still or very close. This is annoying, but the overall DPS increase over the standard AC makes it worth it.

However, the jam chance makes the weapon unreliable. So much so, I feel it is almost more of a liability on the battlefield than an asset. How many times have you pushed a corner, pulled the trigger, and jammed half or more of your guns? This fatal flaw makes the UAC a poor weapon of war, and this is what I hope to address.

Right now, when you double-tap and get a jam, you must:
1) Wait for the "jam to clear" (costs time)
2) Then, on top of that, wait for the cool-down of the weapon (costs more time)
3) Fire

This lengthy wait time is infuriating and quite often, fatal. No true weapon of war would ever be used if it had such a vulnerability.

How about:
1) Wait for the "jam to clear" (cost time)
2) Pay 1 burst of ammo (costs ammo, not time)
3) Fire

The solution I propose would still cost some time, but the additional time of step 2 would be "paid for" by ejecting the jammed round sequence. This would eat-up ammo but would ready the weapon to fire quicker.

Or in other words, on a jam, the cool-down of the weapon is slightly extended (not massively, as it is now) -- mechanically force-clearing the breach and ramming new shells in place -- but costing all the shells that were previously loaded. This way, overall damage potential will always be less with UACs, as some portion of the ammo will be ejected in the process of clearing jams, but burst damage will still be formidable.

Thoughts?

[Eisenhorne]

Eh, consider that the Mad Cat II-B is considered one of the most powerful mechs in the game right now, and it uses UAC 10's and UAC 5's for Dakka... I don't think clan UAC's need a jam buff.

[Grus]

If you chain fire... they will not jam...

Is the hame chamce high sure. But the damage output is huge if there was no jaming.. could it be a little less sure but i dont think they are broken to the point of needing a fix.

[Arkansas6A]

A single UAC above a UAC2 is just too unreliable to use. And with the heavier tonnage of the bigger UACs it's quite the sacrifice in weight for a limited tonnage mech. That pretty much means that you either carry two (or more), or none at all.

[Khobai]

Eisenhorne, on 05 September 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Eh, consider that the Mad Cat II-B is considered one of the most powerful mechs in the game right now, and it uses UAC 10's and UAC 5's for Dakka... I don't think clan UAC's need a jam buff.

they definitely need a jam buff. because jamming isnt a fun game mechanic.

the jam buff just needs to be counteracted by lowering the dps on UACs.

standard ACs also need range/velocity buffs and possibly ammo per ton buffs so they compare more favorably vs UACs.

there needs to be a reason to use all types of autocannons. And no type of autocannon should be plagued with bad game mechanics like RNG jamming.

Edited by Khobai, 07 September 2018 - 06:08 PM.

[ACH75]

What is lethal is the fast double tap that enqueue a stream of double damage, we may set the minimum double tap time at half cooldown, some more cooldown time for UAC, heat paired with normal AC and jam duration may be switched to missing just a full cooldown time desynking the pellet streams power the more jams happens... skill tree nodes converted to -5% jam chance each.

[Sjorpha]

UAC20 on both sides need a buff, otherwise I think UACs are fine where they are.

[justcallme A S H]

This idea breaks more than it fixes.

No thanks.

[El Bandito]

Easiest jam free solution would be to remove the jam mechanic, drastically decrease UAC cooldown, and lower the damage so that UAC DPS would end up to be about 15-20% more than regular AC, with the downside of more face staring.

[Athom83]

Sjorpha, on 06 September 2018 - 01:54 AM, said:

UAC20 on both sides need a buff, otherwise I think UACs are fine where they are.

I like the IS UAC/20. The worst 2 UACs in my opinion is the CUAC/20 and the IS UAC/10.

[thievingmagpi]

Lmao uacs shred ****.

[Cy Mitchell]

Eisenhorne, on 05 September 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Eh, consider that the Mad Cat II-B is considered one of the most powerful mechs in the game right now, and it uses UAC 10's and UAC 5's for Dakka... I don't think clan UAC's need a jam buff.

Yeah, you can boat UACs because if one or two jam then you still have a couple. Try running them in a mixed build where you only have one or two and they both jam on the first double tap (happens often). The jam changes were suppose to dial back UAC boating when the KDK-3 and the Night Gyr were tearing it up with UACs. All they really did was make boating the only way to reliably use Clan UACs.

[Weeny Machine]

The only thing I dislike about the jam mechanic is its randomness. I doubt that will be changed, though, so perhaps there should be a kind of bar which shows the probablity of a jam

[Daurock]

Rampage, on 06 September 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

Yeah, you can boat UACs because if one or two jam then you still have a couple. Try running them in a mixed build where you only have one or two and they both jam on the first double tap (happens often). The jam changes were suppose to dial back UAC boating when the KDK-3 and the Night Gyr were tearing it up with UACs. All they really did was make boating the only way to reliably use Clan UACs.

While the jam changes did hurt them pretty dramatically, I've found that they do still work in non-boat form. A single 10/20 class, when mixed with a few lasers, can (usually) provide a "Punch" stronger than a gaussVomit when you double tap for a Poke. It also carries higher raw DPS than a similar Gauss Based build, even when NOT double-Tapping. Couple those things together, and you actually have a pretty potent weapon when used appropriately. (Though obviously, not as precise, and more face-time dependant than the gauss-based build, which are the balancing factors to the weapon's raw power.) I will admit though, the 2 and 5 class UACs are pretty bad when used in non-boat form.

That being said, i still wouldn't mind seeing UAC's get the RNG reduced/removed, and in place of that, of having a longer cooldown than std. AC's.

Edited by Daurock, 06 September 2018 - 08:47 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Yeah, you could do that although I do not normally play peek and poke. I am more of s skirmisher. The UAC10 on a double tap is what, 6 pellets over a second or so adding up to 20 damage? I think for that the Gauss with 15 pin point damage would still be superior and what I would chose to take. In fact, I usually replace the 2UAC5s in my HBR Prime with a single Gauss when I play it now despite the fact that it puts a bomb in my right torso.

I did play the MCII-B as a UAC boat during the recent PTS. I had owned a KDK-3 but never played it when it was the apex predator. I ended up enjoying the Mad Cat MKII-B enough that I think I will grab one for C-Bills while it is on sale. I love ballistics and if they will not fix the UACs then I guess I will run them the only way that I believe they really work well. Boat 'em!

[Eisenhorne]

Rampage, on 06 September 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

Yeah, you can boat UACs because if one or two jam then you still have a couple. Try running them in a mixed build where you only have one or two and they both jam on the first double tap (happens often). The jam changes were suppose to dial back UAC boating when the KDK-3 and the Night Gyr were tearing it up with UACs. All they really did was make boating the only way to reliably use Clan UACs.

I mean... this is a truism about MWO in general. Never take a single weapon of any type, unless it syngergizes nicely with the rest of your build (like Gauss + lasers). Taking a single ERLL is bad, taking 4+ is good. Taking a single SRM6 or LRM20 is similarly a bad idea. You have to boat anything to be effective.

[Cy Mitchell]

Eisenhorne, on 06 September 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

I mean... this is a truism about MWO in general. Never take a single weapon of any type, unless it syngergizes nicely with the rest of your build (like Gauss + lasers). Taking a single ERLL is bad, taking 4+ is good. Taking a single SRM6 or LRM20 is similarly a bad idea. You have to boat anything to be effective.

I know what you are saying but that means that cUACs are only good on a couple Heavies and a few Assaults. Before the jam changes I could successfully run the HBR 2UAC5/4 erML and the weapons synergized well. Now, not so much. What other weapon in the game has a feature where, if you use it, can randomly and often result in in a loss of 50-75% of your firepower for 7-10.5 seconds in the heat of battle.
Honestly, if the cLBX could fire a single slug or if I could use the IS ACs then I would never touch a cUAC again. They are just too aggravating.

[Bloodwitch]

If jamming is a problem, you simply do not have enough autocannons!

[FupDup]

Rampage, on 06 September 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

I know what you are saying but that means that cUACs are only good on a couple Heavies and a few Assaults. Before the jam changes I could successfully run the HBR 2UAC5/4 erML and the weapons synergized well. Now, not so much. What other weapon in the game has a feature where, if you use it, can randomly and often result in in a loss of 50-75% of your firepower for 7-10.5 seconds in the heat of battle.
Honestly, if the cLBX could fire a single slug or if I could use the IS ACs then I would never touch a cUAC again. They are just too aggravating.

The CAC/10 is pretty viable, especially if you have 2+ of them. IMO probably better than the IS AC/10 despite not being PPFLD, because of its effectiveness relative to its resource requirements. CAC/2 has its uses too and I'm not sure about the CAC/5 or CAC/20 (don't see them used much).

But in general burst fire ain't that big of an issue outside of longer range fighting against targets moving perpendicularly.

[Christophe Ivanov]

Remove all heat from all weapons...jam from all weapons and let the pilots skill determine his/hers success on the battlefield. Since it's removed from all, everyone benefits.

Well...I can dream can't I?