53 replies to this topic

[Thaddeus Necromancer]

Executioner
Warhawk/Dire Wolf
Black Knight
Grasshopper
certain 35 ton mechs (Jenner @ 2C, Adder, Firestarter & Cougar)

[Black Ivan]

Black Knight
Jenner
Wolfhound
Phoenix Hawks
Executioner
Bashee
and I could go on

[mad kat]

Lol PGI listen? That's funny.

Wait..... Whine this, whine that. Such and such is OP. QQ something is too powerful. Nerf it and nerf it now........

......... Is the only way to get PGI to listen (even then not on this forum, you'd have to post this on Russ's Twitter) and even then they'll do something so tenuously related and off on a tangent to it that it will also affect pretty much every other mech in game.

Edited by mad kat, 12 September 2018 - 10:48 PM.

[Tiewolf]

The top five priority list:

1. Firestarter
2. Black Knight (same with Archer and Grasshopper)
3. All Jenners (and 35 tonners if they lose the armor quirks)
4. Zeus
5. All Highlanders


Surprisingly most of the mechs are IS mechs that i precieve as too large. On Clanside the Executioner barely didn`t make it in my top 5 list and would be nr. 6. In general most assaults (Atlas, Annihilator,Dire Wolf,...) are too big in my opinion.

[Vellron2005]

Piranha and Locust are too small.. Phoenix Hawk is too big..

[Variant1]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 September 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

The issue with PGI rescaling though was it was primarily done within each respective weight class instead of across the entire weight spectrum, from 20-ton to 100-ton. If the rescaling had been done the way it had been expected, the issues would not be near as bad since provided it started with the lights and moved up, then a majority of the mechs would have actually been made smaller. Atlas, 100-ton, can fit way more than 5 20-ton locusts into it, if it was done simply by volume. The things PGI would not be able to get away with is that all mech cockpits are 3-tons, gyros are 1-ton to 4-ton components (dependent on ENGINE rating, not mech), etc.

this is the problem right here. volumetric scaling is lazy, each mech should be designed by its own not based on tonnage. Assaults should be large and heavily armored, and im fine with a few mediums being taller than their weight class. Whats annoying is because a few mechs get whined about being large the entire roster of other mechs that were fine get screwed over. so no more rescaling, it will only get worse the more it is done

[JediPanther]

YueFei, on 12 September 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

Wat.

Those Catapult missile boxes do *not* cover the side torsos.

Maybe you have the impression that you're successfully shielding with them, but it's also more likely that the enemy is deliberately targeting those missile boxes to disarm you.

That is exactly what you want them to do. The more they fire on those missile boxes the less damage your ct and sts take. Just because the cats do normally have missiles doesn't mean that every single catapult will have missiles in those boxes. I've used them with decoy dead weight lrm5s and a single ton of ammo.

I know its hard for people to think for themselves in this game or imagine other builds for catapults that don't use missiles but hey you can totally go just energy on the catapults c1,c4,c-bb,k2 and jester.

[FupDup]

JediPanther, on 13 September 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

I know its hard for people to think for themselves in this game or imagine other builds for catapults that don't use missiles but hey you can totally go just energy on the catapults c1,c4,c-bb,k2 and jester.

You're phrasing this as if it's even an option to equip missiles on the K2 or Jester.

Also going pure energy on the C4 is really not a good idea because both of your energy hardpoints are in the CT. You'd basically be a heavy-class Spider 5V.

[United Jenner Warriors]

1 Jenner
2 Jenner
3 Jenner
4 Jenner
5 Jenner

(bonus: most other 35t lights)

[YueFei]

JediPanther, on 13 September 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

That is exactly what you want them to do. The more they fire on those missile boxes the less damage your ct and sts take. Just because the cats do normally have missiles doesn't mean that every single catapult will have missiles in those boxes. I've used them with decoy dead weight lrm5s and a single ton of ammo.

I know its hard for people to think for themselves in this game or imagine other builds for catapults that don't use missiles but hey you can totally go just energy on the catapults c1,c4,c-bb,k2 and jester.

I'm all for using creativity to try to find new ways to do things, but I seriously doubt your experiments yield good results.

People who don't read paper dolls for loadouts or damage status will tend to shoot center mass anyway, and your missile boxes don't shield any of your torsos no matter what angle you twist at. You might face some people who just have a habit of shooting at those missile boxes, but that's just their sub-optimal play to deliberately aim at the missile boxes, you aren't actually shielding with them.

People who do read paper dolls will realize you have nothing of value in your missile boxes, and just shoot your torsos anyway, and there's no angle at which you can twist which will prevent them from hitting your torsos. You can do your best to spread that damage across the 3 torsos, but that's about it.

In short, what you're doing has dubious value against subpar players, and no value against competent players.

Mech geometry matters a great deal. For example, after driving a Shadowhawk for a few months and having some decent results, I tried the Roughneck with near identical loadout (but a bigger punch), since the massive armor quirks looked really attractive. But despite insane armor quirks making it seem much tougher on paper, I realized that I couldn't as effectively shield the side torsos of the Roughneck using its arms. The arms don't fully occlude the side torsos from the side profile, and so statically shielding doesn't work, and you have to wiggle back and forth a bit hoping to jink the arm in the path of incoming shots, but this risks over-twisting and getting hit in the back shoulder.

After awhile I put away the Roughneck and got back into the Shadowhawk, which is actually more survivable. The Roughneck might have +8 armor and +15 structure in each side torso, but I couldn't consistently use all those hitpoints in the arms to absorb damage. The Shadowhawk's extra 40 hitpoints in each arm, in practice, trumped the extra 23 hitpoints in the Roughneck's side torsos. Note that these values are all pre-skill-tree upgrades.

The jump jets allowing the Shadowhawk to do the extreme bend-at-the-waist-animation is just the cherry on top.

Edited by YueFei, 13 September 2018 - 11:24 PM.

[Kiluj]

black knight
also thunderbolt size must be increased

[Nightbird]

The mechs I like/use are too big, the mechs I never use/don't like are too small.

[JENNER llC]

Jenner IIC & Jenner JR7 both scaled down

firestarters are pretty massive too

[ice trey]

Definitely the Assassin. For the weight class, that thing is just huge.
It might also be a good idea to downscale the spider again, because especially the main one is lacking in so many respects.

I feel like the Vindicator is also underutilized, but rather than a rescale, I think it needs to have ECM included on most if not all of the variants. If PGI feels like the Lyran Commando deserved an ECM slot, even though the commando doesn't sport one in any config through even the Jihad, then I can't see why the in-this-game-underutilized workhorse of the Capellan Confederation wouldn't be able to pack one, too.