61 replies to this topic

[verybad]

Reading the information the Developers HAVE released out of the Dev Blogs and Announcements on this site, It appears both methods will be possible. So you can probably grind to get your dream mech, or you can buy C-Bills using real moneywith which to buy the mech. Nobody here knows how long it would take in in game fights to get enough money to get a new mech, so anything you hear that's not from a developer is speculation. You can't get a straight answer yet, because nobody knows for sure.

[GrimJim]

I will say that the devs have placed some emphasis on a world's resources as well as Randall's constant updates of companies and their output everything from lasers, tanks, and electronics.

Perhaps capture a world and its industries, gain access to its tech spoils. Give us something tangible to wrestle over.

This certainly seems the case with merc units. I don't think this will apply to 'Mech availability (though it would make Fox Teeth style raids commonplace... and fantastic!!!), but based on your victories, it will influence how godly said 'Mech is. XP for performance and variants. Your performance for upgrades and tech.

[MitchellTyner]

I just don't know how I feel about people paying for mechs with real cash... that just seems off a bit. I understand other things like decorative etc but if you pay real money for a mech that's great vs a regular mech that people are grinding to get up to another one... that's pay to win style and if I'm correct I've read that won't be the case.

Just my .02 , but I know with the FTP style people have to buy something I just don't know how I feel about mechs ... but it would be hard for them to make enough profit to make it worth while with just cosmetic stuff...

Fox-6

[verybad]

Quote

The developers want to avoid the need for a grind, so as soon as a particular mech is available the player can purchase that mech with real money or with in-game funds. Loyalty also unlocks access to specific mech skins and the ability to be part of different units.

http://massively.joy...ine/1#c35201925

[MitchellTyner]

oh no

[verybad]

I understand your feelings here, but it's not the end of the world. So long as mechs are reasonably balanced then buyable mechs should be fine.

There will certainly be some deep pocketed plaeyrs with all the bells and whistles, however you can't increase skill levels as a mechwarrior or in a mech by buying them...so dedicated players should still be able to kick ***.

My advice is to wait and see how it turns out rather than giving up on it.

[Rhinehart]

There really is no such thing as an Uber Mech in Mechwarrior. So many chassis offer capabilities that are so similar that being able to buy one specific chassis shouldn't cause much of a balance issue. Especially true if they have multiple chassis of each weight class vailable at launch. Really it probably won't be a big deal.

Edited by Rhinehart, 27 December 2011 - 02:27 PM.

[Karn Evil]

It is rather unlikely that every mech purchase will require real money - that would kind of kill the whole "free-to-play" element of it. More likely, some things will be expedited by real money, but you will be able to do just fine with just C-Bills, because the Devs have openly stated that they want to avoid a "pay-to-win" scenario.

[Xake]

I'll buy the game, if need be. I'll also research and buy cool bits here and there. I'm in it for the long haul!

[MitchellTyner]

Yeah I'm game b/c I like light and medium mechs.

I just hope my commando, firestarter, and bushwacker are in there but I know one of my fav's is already there. Go Hunchback!!!!

[Karn Evil]

You're definitely going to have to wait a while for that Bushwacker, as the Clan invasion still hasn't happened yet.

[Volume]

Why are people upset about buying 'Mechs with real money?

From everything I've read, this will NOT be "pay to win" and "wallet warriors" will not dominate the battlefield. Even in the DEV Q&A and FAQ and such, it's all right there: Bigger is not always better.

Many people keep equating this game to "World of Tanks," which is nearly the exact opposite of what it should be related to. In WoT, there are clearly "best" tanks in each weight class, and "best" weight classes that will always dominate another weight class.

In Mechwarrior:Online, I feel that this will simply not be the case. First of all, heavy 'Mechs will not be one-shotting lights. Everything should take much longer to kill than in WoT. With the amount of armor and cover and electronic warfare involved, there will not be a "best" class, and you probably won't have games of 12 assaults fighting 12 assaults. Secondly, there are many different roles for each 'Mech, even within the same weight class. A Raven doesn't have the same job duties as an Urbanmech which would be piloted differently than a Commando or Firefly, etc.

Some 'mechs will be designed for scouting, others for brawling, some for hit-and-run skirmishes, others for sniping...Some will attack close, some will try to stay farther away, etc, etc... There might be dozens of 50 ton 'Mechs - there is no "best one that people will buy."

I think the game should be more equated to DotA/LoL/HoN/Smite/RoI/BLC than WoT.

Here's how I imagine it working: We have X amount of 'Mechs available to use for free this week. Stock loadouts, perhaps a few different configurations for each one. Several are available when you start playing. This rotates every week, or every few days, or whatever, or you can permanently purchase one to keep for yourself, maybe customize however you want, maybe not. Either way, it's yours, and you have it unlocked and can keep it forever. You can unlock it with C-Bills, or with real money, but people who don't pay for 'Mechs will still have comparable equipment. IE: instead of "light medium heavy assault" and "assault always wins" it would be more like "glass-cannon, balanced fighter, slow heavy attacker, impenetrable fortress" but "anyone who is piloting better and uses terrain, ECM, BAP, C3, whatever, to their advantage, will win." It is a TEAM GAME, not a FFA, not a 1v1, matches are going to be 8v8 or 12v12. If you bring a "Steiner Scout Lance™" into a game, and get wrecked by a couple Ravens NARCing you up and scouting for several Longbows, that's your own damn fault. Missile boats aren't overpowered, it's just fire support taking advantage of the situation. Bigger is not always better.

Think like how a melee DPS or ranged DPS or a tank aren't really "Better" than each other, but they are specialists in certain situations - that's how I expect this game to work. Yes, there are times when your Jenner gets destroyed by some guy in a Victor and you wish you had a King Crab...But if you look at positioning, movement, and logistics at the strategical and tactical level, there are situations where your Jenner can take on the Victor, and situations where it can't. Using Jumpjets, a fast run-by, detecting enemies, or perhaps just getting to the objective faster than the Victor can catch you (ie: CTF, Conquest, point-control, base capture, etc) might be enough to make the Jenner a useful part of your team.

Anyway, they already said that people will be able to play a light, medium, heavy, or assault, ON DAY ONE, FROM THE START, NO LEVELING OR GRINDING REQUIRED. So I'm certain that there will be a LOT of work put in in order to make the game experience fun for members of each weight class, and not a "Assault Triumphs All."

TL;DR: Being able to buy 'Mechs doesn't mean you'll be getting better 'Mechs than anyone else. Buying an Atlas doesn't guarantee you will win all the time.

[Rhinehart]

The Mechwarrior four series definitely went for the heaviest metal possible to win the game.

But in MW3/pirate's moon I was able to complete the campaigns in a medium mech. I did it with the Nova, Bushwacker and Shadowcat. and with my AI lancemates in mediums too. I never thought to try beating MW3 in a light mech but I bet it would be difficult but possible. In most Pre-Mechwarrior Four scenarios terrain and tactics can defeat a weight advantage if the numbers disparity is not too great. It was only in MW 4 where they went completely off book for the armor values and where (especially in MW BK and MW4 Mercs)in the latter mission enemies were almost all assault mechs that it was no longer possible to win the game in anything less than an assault or a very tricked out heavy. If someone did manage to beat the MW4 titles in a medium or especially a light mech my hats off to you cause I couldn't do it.

I think the devs want to go back that ideal, that a well piloted medium can match a heavy or even an assault with the right tactics and equipment. Not easy but doable.

Oh and for pity's sake can we stop talking about MWO in terms of games like world of tanks et all that have no real relation to this fictional universe whatsoever? Let's talk about Mechwarrior in terms of Mechwarrior. There's more than enough Mechwarrior material to go around.

Edited by Rhinehart, 27 December 2011 - 06:21 PM.

[MitchellTyner]

Karn Evil, on 27 December 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

You're definitely going to have to wait a while for that Bushwacker, as the Clan invasion still hasn't happened yet.

I didn't think the Bushwacker was Clan? thought it was IS... though I don't know much canon from the ol' BT.

Volume, on 27 December 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

Why are people upset about buying 'Mechs with real money?

From everything I've read, this will NOT be "pay to win" and "wallet warriors" will not dominate the battlefield. Even in the DEV Q&A and FAQ and such, it's all right there: Bigger is not always better.

Many people keep equating this game to "World of Tanks," which is nearly the exact opposite of what it should be related to. In WoT, there are clearly "best" tanks in each weight class, and "best" weight classes that will always dominate another weight class.

In Mechwarrior:Online, I feel that this will simply not be the case. First of all, heavy 'Mechs will not be one-shotting lights. Everything should take much longer to kill than in WoT. With the amount of armor and cover and electronic warfare involved, there will not be a "best" class, and you probably won't have games of 12 assaults fighting 12 assaults. Secondly, there are many different roles for each 'Mech, even within the same weight class. A Raven doesn't have the same job duties as an Urbanmech which would be piloted differently than a Commando or Firefly, etc.

Some 'mechs will be designed for scouting, others for brawling, some for hit-and-run skirmishes, others for sniping...Some will attack close, some will try to stay farther away, etc, etc... There might be dozens of 50 ton 'Mechs - there is no "best one that people will buy."

I think the game should be more equated to DotA/LoL/HoN/Smite/RoI/BLC than WoT.

Here's how I imagine it working: We have X amount of 'Mechs available to use for free this week. Stock loadouts, perhaps a few different configurations for each one. Several are available when you start playing. This rotates every week, or every few days, or whatever, or you can permanently purchase one to keep for yourself, maybe customize however you want, maybe not. Either way, it's yours, and you have it unlocked and can keep it forever. You can unlock it with C-Bills, or with real money, but people who don't pay for 'Mechs will still have comparable equipment. IE: instead of "light medium heavy assault" and "assault always wins" it would be more like "glass-cannon, balanced fighter, slow heavy attacker, impenetrable fortress" but "anyone who is piloting better and uses terrain, ECM, BAP, C3, whatever, to their advantage, will win." It is a TEAM GAME, not a FFA, not a 1v1, matches are going to be 8v8 or 12v12. If you bring a "Steiner Scout Lance™" into a game, and get wrecked by a couple Ravens NARCing you up and scouting for several Longbows, that's your own damn fault. Missile boats aren't overpowered, it's just fire support taking advantage of the situation. Bigger is not always better.

Think like how a melee DPS or ranged DPS or a tank aren't really "Better" than each other, but they are specialists in certain situations - that's how I expect this game to work. Yes, there are times when your Jenner gets destroyed by some guy in a Victor and you wish you had a King Crab...But if you look at positioning, movement, and logistics at the strategical and tactical level, there are situations where your Jenner can take on the Victor, and situations where it can't. Using Jumpjets, a fast run-by, detecting enemies, or perhaps just getting to the objective faster than the Victor can catch you (ie: CTF, Conquest, point-control, base capture, etc) might be enough to make the Jenner a useful part of your team.

Anyway, they already said that people will be able to play a light, medium, heavy, or assault, ON DAY ONE, FROM THE START, NO LEVELING OR GRINDING REQUIRED. So I'm certain that there will be a LOT of work put in in order to make the game experience fun for members of each weight class, and not a "Assault Triumphs All."

TL;DR: Being able to buy 'Mechs doesn't mean you'll be getting better 'Mechs than anyone else. Buying an Atlas doesn't guarantee you will win all the time.

True very True, but when you have a lance of say a scout mech, a medium, a heavy, and an assault class... think if you ran into 4 assaults .... yeah you might be able to knock 2 or maybe 3 out but it's just not as easy as saying "yes I used great cover and I took out an atlas with a flee" ... that's what I'm worried about, maybe by limiting the tonage on a drop or something?

This is coming from a guy that prefers mechs on the smaller and faster side such as the commando, and up to 50 ton range.

Fox-6

[Volume]

MitchellTyner, on 27 December 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

I didn't think the Bushwacker was Clan? thought it was IS... though I don't know much canon from the ol' BT.



True very True, but when you have a lance of say a scout mech, a medium, a heavy, and an assault class... think if you ran into 4 assaults .... yeah you might be able to knock 2 or maybe 3 out but it's just not as easy as saying "yes I used great cover and I took out an atlas with a flee" ... that's what I'm worried about, maybe by limiting the tonage on a drop or something?

This is coming from a guy that prefers mechs on the smaller and faster side such as the commando, and up to 50 ton range.

Fox-6

You are 100% correct in that the Bushwacker is not a Clan 'mech. However, on the timeline, it was developed after the Clans invaded, in a response to Clan aggression. I think the first model was produced in 3058.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bushwacker

Says there that "The 'Mech was redesigned after schematics for an OmniMech known as the Vulture were captured during a raid into Clan territory."

And yeah, I'm sure they will try to balance by tonnage or BV or something - a lance of Jenners will not be fighting a Steiner Scout Lance™ - tonnage limits or drop limits have always been part of the game and I don't see why there wouldn't be an aspect of it involved here, especially if C-Bills are what everyone is paying for equipment with - people would be less excited to take expensive 'Mechs if they lose profit on a contract, or if certain objectives are involved that require mobility. That said, my understanding is that the game will basically be "last man standing team deathmatch" with no respawns (speculation kind of) but the devs themselves said that they have nothing set up to use different "objectives" right now. So it's TDM, respawns or not, people might not want to take the biggest mech if they need to pay to repair it, or if it's too slow to fight back against smaller more maneuverable ones.

[Arnie1808]

AlienInvader, on 26 December 2011 - 01:22 PM, said:

Premium tanks in WoT are actually at a disadvantage compared to same-tier, same-class tanks. The advantage of premium tanks are that they cost a lot less to run and make credits, which is their purpose. My tier-8 T-44 and M26 can (relatively) easily kill T-59's 1 vs 1.

All the complaints about the T-59 are due to those in lower-tiered tanks who can't kill them 1 vs 1 (and rightly so). Also, T-59's tend to team up and "wolfpack," so they can easily take on solo tanks. Finally, I feel that many don't know how to aim, as the T-59's turret tends to bounce off shots. But they are very vulnerable in the sides...but still many just keep on hitting the turret.

They are not really overpowered, it's just and illusion. They can be easily killed, as long as you are at least in a same-tier tank ,aim your shots, and expect them to "wolfpack" when they come.

edit: And remember, it's the wallet warriors that lets the welfare warriors play for free.

Fear Radick, on 26 December 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

It's "free2play" meaning it's free. They will be hoping to make money off of minor transactions for add-ons, visual items, etc.

If I understand correctly, the available mechs will be based off of your in-game rank, but you should have access to each tier of mechs to start off as they seem to be trying to build a class based style of play.

First off I am not convinced that the type 59 does not have some sort of advantage over other tanks in its tier. I have a Tiger 2 with 105mm gun and the bloody thing bounces off the Type 59 like its made of adamantium! I also have a Pershing and it just isn't as powerful, you can try to tell me its the Pershing is in the same league but there is something that always gets me and that's if you are willing to pay £25 for a tank I think there might be a bit of an advantage for you in there somewhere!

The next thing is YES you can download it for free but when you get up into the heavier tiers of tanks it gets harder and harder to make ends-meet because if you loose and your tank is destroyed its going to cost a lot and you will more than likely loose money meaning you are better off having a PREMIUM ACCOUNT which cost's around £8 a month.
which is where I would have thought they would make most of their money from!

Also you CAN buy the game if you want to http://www.amazon.co...25069542&sr=8-1

The thing is buying a premium is a little expensive if you compare it to something like Guild Wars. World of Tanks is more like World of Warcraft when it comes to price.

Edited by Arnie1808, 28 December 2011 - 05:20 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

With the hit point system of Mechwarrior, the wallet warrior syndrome is reduced since everyone can be killed, given time.

But if the Wallet Warrior symptom is basically letting you purchase ClanTech off the shelf.... That would be too big an advantage during the early days of MWO. And I do hope Piranha does not bow down to the pressure and temptation for pay 2 win.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 28 December 2011 - 03:13 AM.

[MitchellTyner]

[EDMW]CSN, on 28 December 2011 - 03:08 AM, said:

With the hit point system of Mechwarrior, the wallet warrior syndrome is reduced since everyone can be killed, given time.

But if the Wallet Warrior symptom is basically letting you purchase ClanTech off the shelf.... That would be too big an advantage during the early days of MWO. And I do hope Piranha does not bow down to the pressure and temptation for pay 2 win.

If they do "bow down" it won't be for long b/c people won't being playing then. Simple and to the point.

[zverofaust]

I hope they make it so that particular factions have access to certain Mechs at cheaper prices, while everyone else has to pay a little added "handler's fee" to get the same.

[MitchellTyner]

zverofaust, on 28 December 2011 - 11:02 AM, said:

I hope they make it so that particular factions have access to certain Mechs at cheaper prices, while everyone else has to pay a little added "handler's fee" to get the same.

that's the way the dev's have been saying I think.