53 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

You've had a chicken icon for a month, I'm not an idiot.

This account has had a chicken icon since they were first available.

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

I'm not an idiot.

I'm beginning to have my doubts:

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

Time for a real no true Scotsman argument.
Just because I can press two thumbs on a 6" touchscreen doesn't make me a "gamer'.
You really want to even try to equate PC game with 30+ functions with the controls of Candy Crush? Begone.

Ahem! xBox!
Ahem! PlayStation!
Your PC bias is showing.

Edited by Mystere, 21 September 2018 - 06:49 AM.

[Mystere]

MechaBattler, on 19 September 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

The client always seemed to lag out whenever I would update or install and as a result it would take a long time to finish. For whatever reason it goes faster and notably smoother with Steam. I mean I haven't used the client since they updated it last. So maybe it's better now.

I suspect the client was not the problem itself but rather the infrastructure PGI used (i.e. servers, network, etc.) for distributing the game. But that is just a guess.

[Anjian]

arcana75, on 21 September 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:

There's one fundamental diff between WR and MWO: WR can be played on mobile devices. That puts WR heads and shoulders above MWO, which has a much higher barrier to entry. Many gamers today don't even own a computing device that has a clickity thing that makes letters appear on a screen and an oblong thing you hold in your palm that moves a strange thing called a pointer or cursor on a screen.

Convenience of platforms has nothing to do with position relative within their platform. Being convenient in mobile explains nothing why WR is in the top 100 grossing games in mobile and among the top 10 action games in mobile.

MWO has Steam, faces World of Tanks, World of Warships, etc,. Also faces PUBG and Fortnite in PC. PC got Dota and League of Legends for MOBA.

WR has the Apple App Store and Google Play Store, competes with World of Tanks Blitz, World of Warships Blitz. The Blitz versions are the mobile versions of Wargaming's games. WR also faces the mobile versions of PUBG and Fortnite. Mobile Legends and Honor of Kings for MOBA.

The question is where does MWO stand in Steam, and where does WR stand in the Apple and Google Play Stores. Where do they stand both relative in parallel with their competition.

Each is being judged on their respective venues. Don't assume that mobile is less competitive as a gaming industry --- it probably is even more, thanks to gold rush syndrome. As a note, the gaming industry revenue breakdown is 51% is in mobile, 24% is in PC and 25% is in console.

Edited by Anjian, 21 September 2018 - 08:27 AM.

[Anjian]

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

Time for a real no true Scotsman argument.
Just because I can press two thumbs on a 6" touchscreen doesn't make me a "gamer'.
You really want to even try to equate PC game with 30+ functions with the controls of Candy Crush? Begone.

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

Time for a real no true Scotsman argument.
Just because I can press two thumbs on a 6" touchscreen doesn't make me a "gamer'.
You really want to even try to equate PC game with 30+ functions with the controls of Candy Crush? Begone.

Ever played arcade games, which were the first games made into esports? Like Street Fighter II? You got one joystick and three buttons. But combinations of these buttons and joystick can produce a whole and rich range of functions that activate special moves.

A touchscreen can have more controls than an arcade game. Or even that of a game controller.

Lets take this firing button.




The center button fires all weapons in one alpha. The button on upper left, right, lower left and right, fires any of the four weapons attached to the body, meaning two arms weapons and two shoulder weapons. The bottom quadrant changes the targeting mode. The number on the button shows you how long the weapons cool down before it is available to fire. The circumference on each of the quadrants indicates how much charge is left for each weapon; they grow shorter when consumed and during rest, they grow longer as they regain charge. The symbol on each quadrant represents the type of weapon, which in this case is rocket.

If you press between the two button quadrants, it will fire the two weapons the quadrants represent.

The button itself is contextual --- its design can change with the way the mech is configured.
There is another button on top of this button that represents special ability. Additional functionality can be added with smaller buttons around this button.

This other game activates a whole range of combos through combinations of button presses. Each button represents a special ability which can be customized. The buttons are also contextual, if a character is changed, the buttons also change with the character, and represents abilities that are unique to that character.

Edited by Anjian, 21 September 2018 - 10:50 AM.

[Mystere]

Anjian, on 21 September 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

Each is being judged on their respective venues. Don't assume that mobile is less competitive as a gaming industry --- it probably is even more, thanks to gold rush syndrome. As a note, the gaming industry revenue breakdown is 51% is in mobile, 24% is in PC and 25% is in console.

Look at the $$$ numbers. Hot damn:

[BumbaCLot]

Mystere, on 21 September 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

This account has had a chicken icon since they were first available.

[/size]

I'm beginning to have my doubts:

[/size]

Ahem! xBox!
Ahem! PlayStation!
Your PC bias is showing.

Gee I wonder why I'd talk about a PC game where you can visibly see I've played 3000 matches in 3 months to someone who shows 0 games played in FP and 22000 forum posts. Do you understand why people have a hard time taking you seriously? It's sort of like people who think there should be no trial mechs in Faction play, or be tier 3, or some other gatekeeper. Even these forums don't let accounts with under 24 hours out of s certain area, but forum warriors can post ad nauseum about a game it's demonstrably easy to show they don't participate in. This isn't like a "insert sport here" forum for fans of a game where people comment on their favorite teams/rules like instant replay/etc..
It's a forum for MechWarriors. And you've moved from commenting on faction play which you don't, to mobile gaming, wondering why I'd have a PC bias?
Where is the Xbox and iPhone section of the forum? Exactly. Trolled again by forum warrior Tier 1.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 21 September 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

Look at the $$$ numbers. Hot damn:

Here's the problem though -

The answer to what's really happening is 'sorta'.

Mobile loses a LOT of money both to platform and licenses. It's not just the 40% of all revenue you give to Apple/Google right off the top - it's that there's a crap ton of sub-licenses you need for handling in app purchases, proprietary netcode and a ton of other stuff that eats your margins up in a hurry.

For game developers the #1 most directly profitable platform is still PC - if you have the personnel to develop for it. Console is easier and the expectations for the end results complexity lower. Your total embedded costs in PC development is typically lower.

Sony, Microsoft, Google and Apple will sue the holy living **** out of you at the drop of a hat and have a ton of tools to use against you to get every single penny of money they can out of your game when you develop for mobile and console. As such console titles tend to be developed by interns and coders for mobile tend to make almost 30% less in the same position.

Mobile lets you design cheaper, pay less and demand just about whatever you want - Pay 2 Win is a thriving business model for mobile. You're plugged right into the market segment that wants to spend money to beat other players. However it's a self-cannibalizing market segment with the highest burnout of any customer base in gaming. Hence the pretty consistent churn of top 50 games on mobile with a tiny handful of exceptions.

For actually making money your best possible options are one of two things -

1. Engaging single player game with a DLC market place. As an example, the Sims is still one of the highest grossing game franchises of any sort in history, along with the Mario series and Pokemon. Call of Duty as well, ironically up until the last 2 installments about 70% of people who bought CoD never touched multiplayer. Crazy, right?

2. PvP multiplayer that hits the e-sports track. The advertising and franchise (essentially selling teams) revenue dwarfs actual game sales often by several orders of magnitude.

If your name isn't World of Warcraft then mixed PvP and coop in an MMO setting isn't long term profitable on the same scale. That's a whole discussion on its own, but yeah.

In terms of revenue for the game developer though both of those two criteria make money on a scale mobile gaming developers can't dream of. Sure, they make Apple, Google, Stripe et al a ton of money for almost no actual cost but the developer? Nope. PC gaming is still where the real money is.

If you can get the right people.

[Mystere]

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

I've played 3000

Only?

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

in 3 months

WOW! That's 33 games a day? Do you even have a life?

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

0 games played in FP

Oh really? <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 21 September 2018 - 12:50 PM.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 21 September 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

good stuff

Oh, I don't doubt that Apple, Google, etc. get a chunk. But do they really skim around 40% off the top?

Also, my reaction to the numbers was more on the size of the market. That's, what, 10 times the US movie business?

[BumbaCLot]

Mystere, on 21 September 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

[/size]

Only?

[left]WOW! That's 33 games a day? Do you even have a life?

20000 forum posts for a game I don't play, hmm who has less of a life? Games take 5-10 minutes. Can easily be knocked out in 2 hours. But you'd know that if you played no?
But thanks for asking, wife, kid, job, and I can play on the clock and get paid!

[Mystere]

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

20000 forum posts for a game I don't play,

Mystere, on 21 September 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

Oh really? <maniacal >

By the way, that's less than 10 posts a day, a pittance really compared to other things I have to do.

Edited by Mystere, 21 September 2018 - 01:11 PM.

[BumbaCLot]

Mystere, on 21 September 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

By the way, that's less than 10 posts a day, a pittance really compared to other things I have to do.

Like play the game? I wouldn't have any problem with you if you did even that. But all I see is non-stop fantasy posts from someone who is obsessed with every part of the game except the part that happens after pressing launch. Some websites even say you have retired.. But hey if you want to post 10 times for every match played that's fine by me. Just don't expect me to weigh your fantasies on the same level as those who support the game in a constructive way (by either playing it, or even deeper grasping it on a level understood by those who can feel change). There are plenty of map painting games out there. There are even some Battletech games out there where you don't have to worry about being PK'd! I bet you will love MW5 once some cheats and mods are released for it too!

[Mystere]

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

Like play the game? I wouldn't have any problem with you if you did even that. But all I see is non-stop fantasy posts from someone who is obsessed with every part of the game except the part that happens after pressing launch.

Are you really really sure? <maniacal >[/color]

BumbaCLot, on 21 September 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

Some websites even say you have retired..

That's the problem with the internet. Many people believe almost everything they see on it as true.

As such, regulation is now necessary.

Edited by Mystere, 21 September 2018 - 01:36 PM.

[Anjian]

MischiefSC, on 21 September 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

Here's the problem though -

The answer to what's really happening is 'sorta'.

Mobile loses a LOT of money both to platform and licenses. It's not just the 40% of all revenue you give to Apple/Google right off the top - it's that there's a crap ton of sub-licenses you need for handling in app purchases, proprietary netcode and a ton of other stuff that eats your margins up in a hurry.

For game developers the #1 most directly profitable platform is still PC - if you have the personnel to develop for it. Console is easier and the expectations for the end results complexity lower. Your total embedded costs in PC development is typically lower.

Sony, Microsoft, Google and Apple will sue the holy living **** out of you at the drop of a hat and have a ton of tools to use against you to get every single penny of money they can out of your game when you develop for mobile and console. As such console titles tend to be developed by interns and coders for mobile tend to make almost 30% less in the same position.

Mobile lets you design cheaper, pay less and demand just about whatever you want - Pay 2 Win is a thriving business model for mobile. You're plugged right into the market segment that wants to spend money to beat other players. However it's a self-cannibalizing market segment with the highest burnout of any customer base in gaming. Hence the pretty consistent churn of top 50 games on mobile with a tiny handful of exceptions.

For actually making money your best possible options are one of two things -

1. Engaging single player game with a DLC market place. As an example, the Sims is still one of the highest grossing game franchises of any sort in history, along with the Mario series and Pokemon. Call of Duty as well, ironically up until the last 2 installments about 70% of people who bought CoD never touched multiplayer. Crazy, right?

2. PvP multiplayer that hits the e-sports track. The advertising and franchise (essentially selling teams) revenue dwarfs actual game sales often by several orders of magnitude.

If your name isn't World of Warcraft then mixed PvP and coop in an MMO setting isn't long term profitable on the same scale. That's a whole discussion on its own, but yeah.

In terms of revenue for the game developer though both of those two criteria make money on a scale mobile gaming developers can't dream of. Sure, they make Apple, Google, Stripe et al a ton of money for almost no actual cost but the developer? Nope. PC gaming is still where the real money is.

If you can get the right people.

Apple and Google collects 30% revenue. There are no other "licenses" other than say, game engine license, like Unity or Unreal.

As for the churn in mobile apps, definitely not true. You still have the same apps --- Candy Crush, Pokemon Go, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, Mobile Strike, Zynga's Poker game, Heartstone, and so on and on, including War Robots, Fire Emblem Heroes, Final Fantasy Exyvius, Fate Grand Order --- floating around the top 200. And then there are new ones that are fast rising, like Honkai Impact 3rd, Azur Lane, King's Raid, Darkness Rises, Mabinogi M, PUBG Mobile. This is so easy to check simply looking at the app rankings in your app store. Furthermore industry analytics are more comprehensive on mobile, which is why its so easy to check for their app revenue, downloads and installs.

Sue?

Google can't sue games that are not installed through the Google Play Store, such as what Epic did recently to Fortnite mobile. It can't sue Amazon either for having an Android with a separate ecosystem that also installs games. China has a non Google ecosystem on Android. Apple can't sue developers for publishing games on both Apple and Android platforms. If anything, mobile doesn't have the strictness and licenses required than console.

Mobile developers don't pay anything more for the development tools than non game application development is on mobile platforms.

Loses a lot of money? Mobile games are making money through the roof.

Pixonic's War Robots racks up $190 million in revenue. This is also cited by mail.ru during their quarterly report

https://www.pocketga...90m-in-revenue/

"[color=#333333]War Robots was also singled out for praise in Mail.Ru's recent financial report for its online games arm, of which the game is included. The company saw revenues increase by 45 per cent year-on-year to [/color]$89.6 million for the three months ending June 30th 2018."

Azur Lane racks up over $170 million in just over a year.

https://www.pocketga...70m-in-revenue/


Azur Lane has recently hit the US and is in the top 100 grossing of Google Play.


Fire Emblem Heroes racks up $400 million for Nintendo.

https://variety.com/...nue-1202892150/


Fate Grand Order racks up $2 billion worldwide for Aniplex and Sony. This game app grossed as much as Avenger's Infinity Wars.

https://www.pocketga...enue-worldwide/


Honor of Kings (Arena of Valor) racks up more than $3.5 billion for Tencent. Tencent also owns League of Legends.

https://www.pocketga...ion-in-revenue/


As for Pay2Win, that depends on what app you are playing. Even with Fate Grand Order, which CNN made a clip showing a Japanese guy that spent $75,000 on it, you can substitute grind and sweat for money, and still have a powerful top level deck without paying much. PC and console games nowadays are brim full of loot boxes nowadays, on top of asking you to pay for the game outright.