198 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

Well I personally think the quick and dirty solution to that is to just boost ramming/collision damage, and base it on weight (and possibly speed traveled on collision), and possibly add it as a quirk/skill tree boosting option for some.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Shifty McSwift, on 20 September 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

Well I personally think the quick and dirty solution to that is to just boost ramming/collision damage, and base it on weight (and possibly speed traveled on collision), and possibly add it as a quirk/skill tree boosting option for some.

A "quick and dirty" solution with collisions would ultimately just favor heavies and assaults by giving them even more damage potential. With quirks to increase such damage potentials the only thing you'll get is heavy and assault brawlers deliberately seeking collisions (not just against Lights).

Light mechs are still only a single digit percentage in QP even during whatever remains "prime time" and the PIR-1 (or any other of its versions) still doesn't represent a significant majority within that group. So people are still trying to "fix" a problem that actually doesn't exist.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 20 September 2018 - 01:17 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Bush Hopper, on 20 September 2018 - 05:15 AM, said:

Thanks for giving the assault potatoes another excuse to cry about "op lights" instead of reflecting their lack of situational awareness / lack of aiming



Geez...you are so ignorant. Locust vs Atlas. Locust runs to Atlas, fires his MGs, crits CT, 3 crits...Atlas goes boom. Yeah, no BT at all, right?

Actually all three hits have to hit the engine to completely put an Atlas out of a fight, even if 2 of the cits hit the gyro and 1 hits the engine the Atlas can still put up a fight. Only limbs are completely destroyed with a triple crit. It is likely to have 2 engine crits and 1 gyro crit, or 1 engine, 1 gyro, 1 ct weapon (if a ct weapon is there), or a 0 engine 1 gyro crit, and 2 crit weapons (if 2 weapons are there).

As for increasing collision damage by weight it would make lights/mediums less likely to leg hump, but most decently light pilots won't be standing on a heavies or assaults feet but just far enough they can react.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 20 September 2018 - 01:53 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Der Geisterbaer, on 20 September 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

A "quick and dirty" solution with collisions would ultimately just favor heavies and assaults by giving them even more damage potential. With quirks to increase such damage potentials the only thing you'll get is heavy and assault brawlers deliberately seeking collisions (not just against Lights).

Light mechs are still only a single digit percentage in QP even during whatever remains "prime time" and the PIR-1 (or any other of its versions) still doesn't represent a significant majority within that group. So people are still trying to "fix" a problem that actually doesn't exist.

I should have been specific, the "problem" I was referring to wasn't lights it was general clinginess and clogging, mechs shouldn't be slamming into eachother at 100kph to slow their movement etc, or be using their body to clog movement without it being a risk, lights can be pretty big offenders here, but its definitely not just a lights thing.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 20 September 2018 - 02:28 PM.

[Sh0t]

that class percentage counter is beyond broken

[Shifty McSwift]

Here's a theory to rot your brain; if the Piranha itself best represents the developers best ideals/intent/hearts desire etc, then aside from coming out very strong for its class (which is sort of expected for new mechs), it also comes across as the most effective nascar AFK killer available... To clan!

In other words; the devs love mindless nascarring, cheap and quick backshotting and worst of all intend to nerf my AFK build!11!2

[Ensaine]

Tom Sawyer, on 20 September 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

This is been a major complaint and something PGI will never fix. WIthout melee you will constantly see lite mechs run up and just murder a lone assault. Welll many will say assaults should not be alone, your team mates should kill it. The ability just to punch, kick or run and collide would really make lite pilots do what they should be doing, Max speed, rapid strikes, dart in and out.

^THIS.....

At the end of the day, the Pir deletes mechs... period. Usually, it's due to the leg humping of a larger, less agile mech.

We say 'well, team mates should blast him' and what ever else... .and this is true, except that the friendly fire in most cases leaves you just as bad off as the light would have......team mates have a habit of firing full volleys of MRM's, SRM's, or sweeping laser strikes to help the guy getting leg humped.....

There needs to be a severe disadvantage to leg humping, like where no light mech EVER wants to do it........

Been a problem since the year Q, won't ever be addressed...... hell, if I ran a game company where the population was under 2k players, I'd not be too worried about this at this point either.....

[Mooninite Err]

I've only been playing about 2 months, but PIRs are seriously the worst part of the game for me. Their damage output is absolutely INSANE. I'm a n00b but I'll tell you right now, PIRs are absolutely **** game design, and are absolutely ruining your game for new players. I doubt I'll keep playing this game very long, and the reason is definitely PIRs.

Also, no offense, but leg humping doesn't take any skill whatsoever. Assaults and Heavies don't ever have the pitch angle to hit a PIR- that's not skill- that's a massive game design problem. Basically playing a PIR is exploiting a bug in the game.

[Y E O N N E]

Mooninite Err, on 21 September 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Also, no offense, but leg humping doesn't take any skill whatsoever. Assaults and Heavies don't ever have the pitch angle to hit a PIR- that's not skill- that's a massive game design problem. Basically playing a PIR is exploiting a bug in the game.

These are 'Mechs that can be killed in one good hit from anything 35-tons and up against 'Mechs. Those Heavies and Assaults are being built to deal with other Heavies, Assaults, and Mediums. To deal with Lights requires a different payload (streaks, or anything that packs a lot of damage in an extremely short time), or much better aim. If you are building to kill bigs, you are weak to smalls. That's proper. While leg-humping isn't fun, a player doing that is also absolutely vulnerable to your allies and gets fragged in short order. At the end of the day, MWO is a team game, and if you don't account for that then you create monsters the likes of which you have personally never experienced, monsters like the launch-day Kodiak-3 or the launch-day Timber Wolf. Those 'Mechs had zero exploitable weak points at the time; the Piranha has several.

I do not have problems taking care of Piranhas.

[Jack Dawes]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

These are 'Mechs that can be killed in one good hit from anything 35-tons and up against 'Mechs. Those Heavies and Assaults are being built to deal with other Heavies, Assaults, and Mediums. To deal with Lights requires a different payload (streaks, or anything that packs a lot of damage in an extremely short time), or much better aim. If you are building to kill bigs, you are weak to smalls. That's proper. While leg-humping isn't fun, a player doing that is also absolutely vulnerable to your allies and gets fragged in short order. At the end of the day, MWO is a team game, and if you don't account for that then you create monsters the likes of which you have personally never experienced, monsters like the launch-day Kodiak-3 or the launch-day Timber Wolf. Those 'Mechs had zero exploitable weak points at the time; the Piranha has several.

I do not have problems taking care of Piranhas.

Applause incoming any time now

[Yumoshiri]

You know guys. It is hard to tell a tree what it means to walk. He'll see the benefits, more sunlight, a good view on the lady trees. But for a tree to walk, he has to cut his roots. He'll realize his legs are too rigid, and that there is not enough power to propel him.

Figured I should contribute some trash to this thread. This game got many problems, piranha ain't one.

[Mooninite Err]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 September 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

While leg-humping isn't fun, a player doing that is also absolutely vulnerable to your allies and gets fragged in short order.

I do not have problems taking care of Piranhas.

Not from what I've seen, in my albeit limited experience- what happens is your team tries to shoot the PIR, ends up splashing you with a ton of damage, and the PIR takes minimal damage because of the jank hit-registration in this game. Again, piloting a PIR is like exploiting a bug.

Also, saying that you can 'counter PIRs with Streaks' doesn't account for the fact that Streaks are TERRIBLE and with the new super-stupid lock on nerfs it's nearly impossible to lock onto a PIR who's actively juking. Streaks are really only an answer for poor PIR players who run in straight lines.

[Battlemaster56]

Mooninite Err, on 21 September 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Not from what I've seen, in my albeit limited experience- what happens is your team tries to shoot the PIR, ends up splashing you with a ton of damage, and the PIR takes minimal damage because of the jank hit-registration in this game. Again, piloting a PIR is like exploiting a bug.

Also, saying that you can 'counter PIRs with Streaks' doesn't account for the fact that Streaks are TERRIBLE and with the new super-stupid lock on nerfs it's nearly impossible to lock onto a PIR who's actively juking. Streaks are really only an answer for poor PIR players who run in straight lines.

Streaks are still deadly to PIR even after the nerfs one volley from 3+ SSRM4/6's is mor ehtan enough to either cripple or outright kill the fish in the game plus you can use tag to boost up lock time, but then agian you need to aim.

Also that your team splashing damage around that's not a PIR problem that a player problem, not no hit box problem as that thing body is easy to isolate each body part it's not even funny, a real pain in the *** to shoot down is a locust and flea.

Again practice aim, and equip fast pinpoint weapons pulse lasers guass ac's there is enough toy's to kill the Fish lord of the deep.

[Shifty McSwift]

Mooninite Err, on 21 September 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Not from what I've seen, in my albeit limited experience- what happens is your team tries to shoot the PIR, ends up splashing you with a ton of damage, and the PIR takes minimal damage because of the jank hit-registration in this game. Again, piloting a PIR is like exploiting a bug.

Also, saying that you can 'counter PIRs with Streaks' doesn't account for the fact that Streaks are TERRIBLE and with the new super-stupid lock on nerfs it's nearly impossible to lock onto a PIR who's actively juking. Streaks are really only an answer for poor PIR players who run in straight lines.

I can see what you are getting at and have made similar points in the past about other "superlights" who recieve a sort of free tankiness from the ping differential/potential ping issues that cause the to seem to jank about (on the shooters ends, but also partially just a part of servers further away too). Combined with much of the often janky pathing quirks (mechs bouncing up and down quite suddenly with terrain uneveness plus imperfect physics etc) and or weird gait and/or jumpjet jankiness issues it can all be a bit much when you swear you hit the thing 8 times already

But that's definitely separate from the notion of it's agility, or other "super light" types, and as for actual hit registration issues, unless I am also having ping issues, running mostly ballistics and SRM the hit registration is fine enough. Hitbox issues are another thing, but that is another global sort of issue that I am unsure if the piranha is any more vulnerable to than others.

[Tonberry Knife]

Hilarious how people are saying "GitGud" "I can kill a piranha in one shot with my 35 tonner." You will not kill a GOOD piranha pilot with one shot consistently, and they will not let you lock on with streaks.

The sad part is that when you encounter a piranha while piloting a light, the only thing you can do is run and beg for help. They will outgun you and armor doesn't matter because you can't hit them as often as they will hit your legs. At least you can outgun a locust even though it's harder to hit.

One mech shouldn't be forcing people to take a garbage weapon system, to begin with. They're so common because it clearly outshines other lights when played correctly.

I don't think they're game breaking and there are ways to deal with them, but honestly, I'm just tired of seeing them. I see them more than any other mech in the game and your options as a light mech pilot are severely limited when matched against them.

Edited by Tonberry Knife, 21 September 2018 - 01:30 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Tonberry Knife, on 21 September 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Hilarious how people are saying "GitGud" "I can kill a piranha in one shot with my 35 tonner." You will not kill a GOOD piranha pilot with one shot consistently, and they will not let you lock on with streaks.

The sad part is that when you encounter a piranha while piloting a light, the only thing you can do is run and beg for help because they will outgun you and armor doesn't matter because you can't hit them as often as they will hit your legs. At least you can outgun a locust even though it's harder to hit.

Fair points.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 21 September 2018 - 12:23 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Tonberry Knife, on 21 September 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Hilarious how people are saying "GitGud" "I can kill a piranha in one shot with my 35 tonner." You will not kill a GOOD piranha pilot with one shot consistently, and they will not let you lock on with streaks.

The sad part is that when you encounter a piranha while piloting a light, the only thing you can do is run and beg for help. They will outgun you and armor doesn't matter because you can't hit them as often as they will hit your legs. At least you can outgun a locust even though it's harder to hit.

One mech shouldn't be forcing people to take a garbage weapon system, to begin with. They're so common because it clearly outshines other lights when played correctly.

I don't think they're game breaking and there are ways to deal with them, but honestly, I'm just tired of seeing them. I see them more than any other mech in the game and your options as a light mech pilot are severely limited when matched against them.

You are doing something really wrong. And here is why...

1. PIR-1s prefer heavier targets because it is much simpler to keep MG rounds on one location. Fighting lights means a lot of spread damage. This means that even if a PIR-1 will win he will have wasted a lot of MG rounds. If the PIR can keep the MGs on a certain location, even legs, I am sorry but then the PIR is not the problem. Note: I do not say it is an easy fight, far from it but not hopeless either.

2. If you cannot get a streak lock on a PIR-1 with no ECM involved...again,I am sorry but then the PIR is not the problem.

Generally speaking, the PIR imo stands out because most of the other light mechs plain suck. As I said several times before: 35t mechs are in deep water. They need a boost in agility, especially turn ability. That way they can roll damage better and also do something a e.g. Wolfhound is supposed to do: hunt light mechs.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 21 September 2018 - 11:55 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tonberry Knife, on 21 September 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

I don't think they're game breaking and there are ways to deal with them, but honestly, I'm just tired of seeing them. I see them more than any other mech in the game and your options as a light mech pilot are severely limited when matched against them.

Fleas are the anti-Piranha. So are Wolfhounds and Urbanmechs.

Mooninite Err, on 21 September 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Not from what I've seen, in my albeit limited experience- what happens is your team tries to shoot the PIR, ends up splashing you with a ton of damage, and the PIR takes minimal damage because of the jank hit-registration in this game. Again, piloting a PIR is like exploiting a bug.

Can't help that your team mates are abysmal at aiming. That's on them, not the Piranha.

Quote

Also, saying that you can 'counter PIRs with Streaks' doesn't account for the fact that Streaks are TERRIBLE and with the new super-stupid lock on nerfs it's nearly impossible to lock onto a PIR who's actively juking. Streaks are really only an answer for poor PIR players who run in straight lines.

I didn't say Streaks were your only option. And like the above, the lock-on nerfs have not harmed the usage of such weapons for people who can aim. With the MG-boat Piranhas having had their accel/decel curtailed, it should be even easier now.

[Shifty McSwift]

Bush Hopper, on 21 September 2018 - 11:54 PM, said:

Generally speaking, the PIR imo stands out because most of the other light mechs plain suck. As I said several times before: 35t mechs are in deep water. They need a boost in agility, especially turn ability. That way they can roll damage better and also do something a e.g. Wolfhound is supposed to do: hunt light mechs.

Um, well, to say that "lights sucked" by comparison, and taking into account piranha is a new mech, that is like the definition of power creep right there, do the light mechs that "sucked" before suck less now? Or do they now suck more by comparison to these new shiny mechs?

[Weeny Machine]

Shifty McSwift, on 22 September 2018 - 02:28 AM, said:

Um, well, to say that "lights sucked" by comparison, and taking into account piranha is a new mech, that is like the definition of power creep right there, do the light mechs that "sucked" before suck less now? Or do they now suck more by comparison to these new shiny mechs?

To be precise: the 35t mechs (and lights) got multiple nerfs. The worst, however, was the volumetric re-scaling which means they are easier to hit, have larger hitboxes to isolate. This in conjunction with their relative low agility (turn, accel/decel) limit their use mostly to drive-by-shooting and praying not to catch an unlucky fat alpha.

And to answer your question: they have the same problems as right after the re-scaling. And why do people complain? Simply because the PIR makes it apparent in what sorry state the rest is. Assault and heavies whine because they actually have now to pay attention to their surroundings. Bad aim gets punished as well because if you cannot hit a glass cannon, the glass is not there but the cannon remains. As I said before: the PIR is a great potato killer.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 22 September 2018 - 03:49 AM.