82 replies to this topic

[Feezou]

Kubernetes, on 20 September 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

/edit - - I swear this game has the largest population of self-limiting potatoes I have ever seen. I've never witnessed so many people who refuse to do the easy things and yet are so stubbornly proud about it. "I don't hit R." "I don't use VOIP." "I don't use consumables." "I won't use those weapons." "I prefer bracket builds." I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I read this forum.

Lol I’m too poor for consumables

[Daggett]

Dread Render, on 21 September 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

whenever i'm in a fire fight i'm way to hurried to look at the damn icon to see where to shoot him.

It's possible to train such things though it takes some time.

For me it really helped to form a habit to stay calm even when receiving heavy fire and take my time to look for weakpoints like cored torsos or legs.

For the first days/weeks try using weapons with long cooldown that don't require much facetime like IS-AC20 or PPCs. This way you can use the cooldown time to remember yourself to keep calm, twist your torso to mitigate damage and of cause review your target's status.

Once you made a habit out of those things you can apply them when using high-facetime weapons too.

[DodgerH2O]

A thousand times YES! The R key is your friend and your team's friend. Recently I've seen many very good players not using it.

I wrote a long guide years ago, it's here: https://mwomercs.com...targeting-tips/

Problem being that modules aren't a thing anymore and ECM, stealth armor, and ranges are different. Lacking a proper reference for mechanics I don't know what accurate information is. If anyone wants to tell me what the current mechanics are I'll gladly update it.

[Variant1]

BumbaCLot, on 20 September 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

63 games in the past 2 years, 863 matches. Come on, you really don't have an alt real man?

i dont? i apreciate the compliment but what does my play time have to do with pressing r? bit off topic dont ya think?

[Prototelis]

But sometimes I'm doing it on purpose to prevent a lock on weapon from securing my kill...

[Mystere]

Variant1, on 21 September 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

i dont? i apreciate the compliment but what does my play time have to do with pressing r? bit off topic dont ya think?

Beats me. But, check this thread out.

Somehow, people who are not playing as much as they used to are not allowed to give ideas on how to make them and others play more again.

Edited by Mystere, 21 September 2018 - 08:57 AM.

[Groutknoll]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

R tells your teammates where the enemy is. Just lost a match because people were not hitting 'R'. So the enemy rolled around our left flank. We were shooting at them but the rest of the team didn't easily identify what was happening. We had every advantage; setup and positioning, we were ahead on kills.

But the unwillingness of a couple experienced players on the flank to hit 'R' absolutely and 100% turned a win into a loss for us.

This isn't unique. People talk about how 'QP is impossible to influence the wins in, it's just random'. Not only is this statistically false and disprovable via 10 seconds of looking at the leaderboard and Jarls List and even a rudimentary understanding of how math works but in the end it just points to situations like this. I'm sure the players involved just thought 'Meh, I don't want anyone stealing my kills' or 'It's just QP and I don't need to target' or whatever bad excuse they have for, in the end, being bad.

Not targeting is bad. It makes you bad at winning the game. It puts your team at a disadvantage vs teams where people use 'R'.

Hit 'R'. It's the easiest thing you can do to get good.

Oh, Mischief ... R is only for Meta Try-Hards and is the most OP thing next to communication MWO, I thought you knew that!

[Kubernetes]

Der Geisterbaer, on 21 September 2018 - 12:34 AM, said:

I'm not sure if me hitting 'R' really serves any purpose these days. Pretty much all recent matches I had multiple persons requesting target locks for their LRMs but when I held locks for 20+ seconds on various enemy mechs simply nothing happened despite no other engagements occuring elsewhere. ~shrug~

Look at this-- another dude who thinks targeting is only for lock-on missiles.

See what I mean? Crazy pills!

[Der Geisterbaer]

Kubernetes, on 21 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Look at this-- another dude who thinks targeting is only for lock-on missiles.

Look at this: Someone making dumb assumptions about player knowledge based on a comment he quite obviously didn't understand.

This "dude" is perfectly aware of what the 'R' button does and what it doesn't. Here's the thing however: If people that have asked for locks fail to actually deliver on their promise after friggin' 20+ seconds of me holding a target in my light mech am I really supposed to "hope" that any of those others playing hide and peek will treat my lock any better? Personal experience says: Nope! So yeah, I'm gonna press that 'R' button when it actually serves a purpose for me ... most likely after my second strafe into that enemy group ... when I can no longer stay in the back of enemy mechs. By then giving away my presence with audible pings in their cockpits is usually no longer a real worry.

Kubernetes, on 21 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

See what I mean?

Yes, I see that you mean to make fallacious contributions based on your misunderstandings and use it as an excuse for trash talking.

Kubernetes, on 21 September 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Crazy pills!

Maybe you had some of them yourself.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 21 September 2018 - 09:40 AM.

[Ghogiel]

I don't hit R for a couple reasons. 1 involves pugs. The other is for information in situations which usually involves pugs but not necessarily.

In pugs... pressing R at the wrong time and it can cost you a game or at least make it much harder than it needed to be :/
Sometimes you hit R just because you see a mech.. then you realise you have exploded pugs minds into splitting or NSRing because minimaps, situational awareness and not yoloing is lost tech.

The 2nd reason is because I already know what the mech in front of me has and or/where it's dmg'd, so I am waiting to get back the LOS on a different mech to get intel on build/dmg readout.

Otherwise I hit R because I am trying to get the team to yolo or nsr at that point.

[Eisenhorne]

MischiefSC, on 20 September 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

This isn't unique. People talk about how 'QP is impossible to influence the wins in, it's just random'. Not only is this statistically false and disprovable via 10 seconds of looking at the leaderboard and Jarls List and even a rudimentary understanding of how math works but in the end it just points to situations like this.

Oh sure, you can influence QP, and I've carried games there before (not as well as others can carry, but I can more than hold my own), but honestly I'd rather not carry because players that bad deserve to lose. Like, if you join a QP game, and do 1,000 damage and carry an LRM Atlas or two on your team to victory, he'll think that he was useful and contributed to that win. No. He should lose. If you're a decent player, carrying bad players to victory in QP just reinforces their badness. Just do FP instead with a group, and stomp newbies (or hopefully get a good match vs a team, that's where the REAL fun is, but it's kinda rare). They need to know how trash they are, and the only way to let them know is to not carry them in QP and to stomp them in FP. Either the game will die or they'll get better, and I'd rather the game die than mouth breathers who bring LRM atlases think they're meaningful contributors.

[Ghogiel]

Eisenhorne, on 21 September 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Oh sure, you can influence QP, and I've carried games there before (not as well as others can carry, but I can more than hold my own), but honestly I'd rather not carry because players that bad deserve to lose. Like, if you join a QP game, and do 1,000 damage and carry an LRM Atlas or two on your team to victory, he'll think that he was useful and contributed to that win. No. He should lose. If you're a decent player, carrying bad players to victory in QP just reinforces their badness. Just do FP instead with a group, and stomp newbies (or hopefully get a good match vs a team, that's where the REAL fun is, but it's kinda rare). They need to know how trash they are, and the only way to let them know is to not carry them in QP and to stomp them in FP. Either the game will die or they'll get better, and I'd rather the game die than mouth breathers who bring LRM atlases think they're meaningful contributors.

Ultimately a baddies badness with show up in their stats even if they get carried on occasion. IF they care about their performance they can just see how sucky they actually are. But they probably don't care and have a scrub mentality.

On the other hand, sure they deserved to lose because they needed carrying, but I personally think I should win if I am the one carrying and care much less about some irrelevent players stats or what they deserve.

[Eisenhorne]

Ghogiel, on 21 September 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Ultimately a baddies badness with show up in their stats even if they get carried on occasion. IF they care about their performance they can just see how sucky they actually are. But they probably don't care and have a scrub mentality.

On the other hand, sure they deserved to lose because they needed carrying, but I personally think I should win if I am the one carrying and care much less about some irrelevent players stats or what they deserve.

Yea... that's probably the main reason I haven't played quick play much these past two months, outside the games this month for the event. My desire to see bad players lose is greater than the satisfaction I got from carrying them to victory, so it just got frustrating and I quit. If you're doing sub 100 damage, you should lose, and I want no part in carrying you to an undeserved victory when you are just a dead weight on the team.

I get equally frustrated when I see players on my team in FP doing 200-300 damage over four mechs, but fortunately I can group up with other people, and complaining loudly over TS about the poor quality of our PUG players is a good release for the stress of having to deal with these terribads, so it's still fun.

And a note to anyone reading this.... if you're one of the guys averaging sub-100 damage in QP, or averaging sub 500 damage in FP, consider what you are doing wrong, and fix it, because you are an albatross around your team's neck.

[Kubernetes]

Der Geisterbaer, on 21 September 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

Look at this: Someone making dumb assumptions about player knowledge based on a comment he quite obviously didn't understand.

This "dude" is perfectly aware of what the 'R' button does and what it doesn't. Here's the thing however: If people that have asked for locks fail to actually deliver on their promise after friggin' 20+ seconds of me holding a target in my light mech am I really supposed to "hope" that any of those others playing hide and peek will treat my lock any better? Personal experience says: Nope! So yeah, I'm gonna press that 'R' button when it actually serves a purpose for me ... most likely after my second strafe into that enemy group ... when I can no longer stay in the back of enemy mechs. By then giving away my presence with audible pings in their cockpits is usually no longer a real worry.

Huh, so you're going to bring up targeting *after* you've made two strafing passes. Yup, sounds like you've got a real handle on this game. I'll just keep popping these crazy pills.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

This is exactly what i meant when i said i dont press r on some lights because i dont want to send all Thor sub 70% assaults hunting for the squirrels.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 21 September 2018 - 12:00 PM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Kubernetes, on 21 September 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Huh, so you're going to bring up targeting *after* you've made two strafing passes.

Great so now you'll nitpick the number of strafes to make the next dumb assertion ...

Kubernetes, on 21 September 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Yup, sounds like you've got a real handle on this game.

... and stick with trash talking. Let's better not talk about automatic target acquistion during a longer strafe or just don't consider the fact that when I'm the only one actually engaging the enemy there's little target information to be gained that I don't already know of because I happened to be the one doing the damage.

Instead ...

Kubernetes, on 21 September 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

I'll just keep popping these crazy pills.

... just pop more of those pills in order keep this fundamentally fallacious and trollish "argument" of yours going. I'll just be entertained ... kay?

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 21 September 2018 - 11:59 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Der Geisterbaer, on 21 September 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

Great so now you'll nitpick the number of strafes to make the next dumb assertion ...

My criticism has nothing to do with the number of strafing runs...

rather, that you hit R *after* you're done shooting.

Quote

... and stick with trash talking. Let's better not talk about automatic target acquistion during a longer strafe or just don't consider the fact that when I'm the only one actually engaging the enemy there's little target information to be gained that I don't already know of because I happened to be the one doing the damage.

Are you saying you only shoot at pristine targets? Hey, does that obviously IS-XL-carrying mech have an open ST? Does that assault mech have an open leg? Who knows! Just do your two strafing runs first! You can figure out afterwards if you could have one-shot an enemy!

Quote

... just pop more of those pills in order keep this fundamentally fallacious and trollish "argument" of yours going. I'll just be entertained ... kay?

Nah, I'll just keep popping pills and playing at a high level while you flounder in self-satisfied potato-dom. I give Ghogiel (and some others) a pass because he's a quality pilot who has sound tactical reasons for not hitting R all the time, but for people bumbling around with horrid stats and gameplay? FFS, just learn to do these simple things. Even if you don't give a snot about your team, at least help yourself.

Edited by Kubernetes, 21 September 2018 - 12:38 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Cara Carcass, on 20 September 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

I honestly think that pressing R does nothing for the team.

3-4 Players of each team know whats up and know how to aim and shoot.
The rest doesnt react to anything. And you cannot make them react to anything.
A lot of the name in my teams i know from closed beta times, but they still need someone reading a manual for them every game.
They run around headlessly and wait for orders instead of using their own brain.

I cannot count the incidences wher we were 2 assaults and 3 heavys ot the like against 2 slow enemy assaults, and the moment i open fire i am alone. Bcause guess what, a snowflake fell down somewhere and they turned away totall unaware of the called, target that vas on the map and was marked with the command wheel and someone even made the effort to call the target via voip.
All those times a easy 5v 2 becomes a 1 v 2 wher ei ahve to carry twice my weight.

Pressing R helps those who play missile boats the wrong way without sharing armor, and thats about it. The others that do not want to play with an active mind cannot be helped.

In fact i have a list of players where i suspect, it would be better to not lock the aquirrels when those ar ein assault mechs, because thei will follow the first lock untill its dead or they are dead. Which more often mens that 3-4 assaults hunt the squirrel and completely forget what the rest of the enemy team might be doing. Those assaults end up wiht sub 50 dmg - all of them.

It would be better not to lock lights when they play, and instead wait for teh first heavy or assault to be seen, so you can steer them toweards them with a bit luck.

I wonder if that was the 'logic' in use by the guys who lost that game for us. I see the same mistake pretty often.

It's really simple. You hit 'r' no matter what. The guys who will run off to chase a light are going to make poor choices regardless. The rest of your team however still need to know there's a light back there. I've killed or crippled top tier players, people way, way better than me in a Piranha or a Wolfhound plenty of times in the last 30 days. Assuming that everyone who's good at the game just 'knows' what enemy mechs are where is a terrible, terrible logic.

Hit R. Regardless. Trying to deny stupid people information isn't worth denying everyone who isn't stupid critical information as well. That top performer isn't going to help your team carry as well when I crit out one of his two HGauss. Sure, he may instantly turn and pop a UAV so I have to run - but the damage is done.

Hit R.

[Dread Render]

Daggett, on 21 September 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

It's possible to train such things though it takes some time.

For me it really helped to form a habit to stay calm even when receiving heavy fire and take my time to look for weakpoints like cored torsos or legs.

For the first days/weeks try using weapons with long cooldown that don't require much facetime like IS-AC20 or PPCs. This way you can use the cooldown time to remember yourself to keep calm, twist your torso to mitigate damage and of cause review your target's status.

Once you made a habit out of those things you can apply them when using high-facetime weapons too.

okay... I will try it.

[MischiefSC]

Eisenhorne, on 21 September 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Oh sure, you can influence QP, and I've carried games there before (not as well as others can carry, but I can more than hold my own), but honestly I'd rather not carry because players that bad deserve to lose. Like, if you join a QP game, and do 1,000 damage and carry an LRM Atlas or two on your team to victory, he'll think that he was useful and contributed to that win. No. He should lose. If you're a decent player, carrying bad players to victory in QP just reinforces their badness. Just do FP instead with a group, and stomp newbies (or hopefully get a good match vs a team, that's where the REAL fun is, but it's kinda rare). They need to know how trash they are, and the only way to let them know is to not carry them in QP and to stomp them in FP. Either the game will die or they'll get better, and I'd rather the game die than mouth breathers who bring LRM atlases think they're meaningful contributors.

I get the frustration. I like to think my rage vs the 99% of LRM players in QP has been made clear in the last, I dunno, 1,000 threads I've vented it in.

However there's 10 other people on your team. Some of them good, some bad, some learning, some not. The terribad will forever be terribad until the day he dies. Even spending your rage on them in more of an investment than they deserve.

Quit trying to metagame the population. Bads gonna bad. Some bads become goods, eventually. Provide your team every opportunity and you skew the odds in favor of bads learning to be good. Punishing your whole team because that one guy on your team deserves to burn isn't helping anyone in the end.