38 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

I personally spend at least 50% of my playtime trying to avoid the trolls on my own team and you guys are measuring this like it's based on perfectly fair 1v1 scenarios and skill measuring. There are a couple of things that stats can help to show, but basing everything including all your forum arguments on what is for the most part irrelevant information... Is really bad practice, you'd do yourselves a favor by shutting up about it already.


I mean does anyone know the guys with top end scores don't purposely troll in their offtime alt accounts? This game is literally swarming with trolls, and I doubt most of them are "randoms".

Wow wtf, can't link images, saved changes not saving.... Forums having an attack?

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 24 September 2018 - 07:41 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Trolling in their alt accounts doesn't count stats toward their main, dude.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 September 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

Trolling in their alt accounts doesn't count stats toward their main, dude.

It would bring down everyone elses stats though wouldn't it.

I think you are missing the point here, I am not basing my argument on that half joke line, why focus on it?

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 24 September 2018 - 07:48 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

I am in the process of uploading some video that will quite literally display some of my gameplay (I had about 6 hours of straight gameplay footage but uploading for 2 weeks didn't seem appealing), and even it is effected by the crazyness of QP, I can identify the moments where all reason disappears and it turns into a shitshow, but I think most people would be able to spot them too.

There are moments when you feel like all is going well and that things matter, but to me at least that is pretty heavily outweighed by the chaos, whether it is pounding me or getting me 6 kills, its still a chaotic mess.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

It would bring down everyone elses stats though wouldn't it.

I think you are missing the point here, I am not basing my argument on that half joke line, why focus on it?

Because your entire premise is silly?

By spending 50% of your time "trying to avoid the trolls on [your] own team", you are probably outside of the active engagement and, therefore, not really contributing to the fight. Your stats reflect that. You are a poor player for doing that, and it doesn't matter how good you are or aren't when you actually do shoot at the reds if you spend fully half of your time evading the blues because it demonstrates that your combat judgement is compromised.

But I'll wait until you post your video before continuing any further.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 September 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

\Your stats reflect that.

That entire premise is silly and that is my premise, Stats reflect some pretty basic data, namely who is getting their *** kicked repeatedly, but are not some perfect display of skill or aptitude (not perfect and also not good either) etc but sure, lets wait for a video displaying a fraction of my gameplay, so you can probably focus on some random ******** there too.

Keep in mind I don't think that highly of myself, didn't cut out my "bad matches" in this video set, don't think I should be in the top tier, and mostly just focus on trying to display the brawling capabilities of the build. So that is the purpose of the upload of that video, which I am sure will be used to **** on me too.

[Bombast]

Your premise is faulty.

Fact is, stats do show skill, and thus knowledge of the game. While its true the match maker craps on everyone, better players are more prepared to deal with it. They overcome the odds and bad teams to win more often. When they lose, they lose with a high score. As more games are played and the sample size of games grows larger, the truly bad matches are balanced against the truly good ones, and the stats themselves become more accurate.

There's some truth that when it comes to forum arguments, stats don't matter as much. A 2.0 WLR player can't be shut down with Jarl's by a 3.0 WLR player, at least not entirely. But when someone with significantly higher stats than you says something, say someone with twice your survival rate and a significantly higher MSR, maybe you should consider the advice and question your own ingame position.

Edited by Bombast, 24 September 2018 - 08:13 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Bombast, on 24 September 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Your premise is faulty.

Fact is, stats do show skill, and thus knowledge of the game. While its true the match maker craps on everyone, better players are more prepared to deal with it. They overcome the odds and bad teams to win more often. When they lose, they lose with a high score. As more games are played and the sample size of games grows larger, the truly bad matches are balanced against the truly good ones, and the stats themselves become more accurate.

There's some truth that when it comes to forum arguments, stats don't matter as much. A 2.0 WLR player can't be shut down with Jarl's by a 3.0 WLR player, at least not entirely. But when someone with significantly higher stats than you says something, say someone with twice your survival rate and a significantly higher MSR, maybe you should consider the advice and question your own ingame position.

I'd agree more if more stats were shown, right now you can only gather pretty basic info, as it is pretty basic data. And yet it gets used for the strangest arguments...

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

That entire premise is silly and that is my premise, Stats reflect some pretty basic data, namely who is getting their *** kicked repeatedly, but are not some perfect display of skill or aptitude (not perfect and also not good either) etc but sure, lets wait for a video displaying a fraction of my gameplay, so you can probably focus on some random ******** there too.

You missed the point.

The point is that I don't want you on my team if you are spending 50% of your time evading blue doritos because you doing that means my chances of a loss go up since you are neither contributing armor nor firepower effectively. You can be amazing in the moment you do contribute, but if the gaps in your contribution are large enough then it doesn't matter.

AKA, you are a compromised player.

[Bombast]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'd agree more if more stats were shown, right now you can only gather pretty basic info, as it is pretty basic data. And yet it gets used for the strangest arguments...

The most relevant stats are shown though. Winrate, Survival Rate, KDR, and MSR (As weird and fickle as MSR can be, its still a decent guide). You can tell loads from this info - Who needs to learn to pace themselves, whos a coward, who spends too much time in mega-groups, good players, bad players, ultra players. You can even sometimes spot LRM mainers.

Edited by Bombast, 24 September 2018 - 08:19 PM.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

I personally spend at least 50% of my playtime trying to avoid the trolls on my own team and you guys are measuring this like it's based on perfectly fair 1v1 scenarios and skill measuring. There are a couple of things that stats can help to show, but basing everything including all your forum arguments on what is for the most part irrelevant information... Is really bad practice, you'd do yourselves a favor by shutting up about it already.

There is something called consistency. If one's stats over hundreds of matches is not good then it is very safe to say that person is not a good pilot.

Trolls are no excuse, as everyone else has to deal with them too, including that of your opponents.

Only thing that PGI really needs to do is to separate GQ and SQ stats. That way those who are getting carried would be exposed.

Oh, and we need KMDD to be shown in QP leaderboards.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 September 2018 - 09:54 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 September 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

You missed the point.

The point is that I don't want you on my team if you are spending 50% of your time evading blue doritos because you doing that means my chances of a loss go up since you are neither contributing armor nor firepower effectively. You can be amazing in the moment you do contribute, but if the gaps in your contribution are large enough then it doesn't matter.

AKA, you are a compromised player.

Well you took the phrase "avoiding trolls" and just ran with it. I meant it from the most banal aspects from watching a guy peep a group of 6 alone, twice in a row, and leaving him to his own devices, to trying to drive around the guys seeming to be purposely blocking, to trying to dodge what seem to be at times purpose teamfire, to noticing someone doing something dodgy and going to support other team members or flank or whatever, you make it sound like I am running away from the team which is just not the case, at least not all the time, I do actively try to avoid it, but sometimes the chaos is just too much.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

Oh, and we need KMDD to be shown in QP leaderboards.

And average % of mech health damage taken, and average components destroyed, and average kill assists/defensive kills/saviour kills (or whatever their name is), average brawling bonuses etc etc. It all counts toward showing a LOT more if that's the purpose of it, skimping on the stats on your leaderboard kind of only inspires a certain play in measuring it.

[Monkey Lover]

[tutzdes]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

And average % of mech health damage taken, and average components destroyed, and average kill assists/defensive kills/saviour kills (or whatever their name is), average brawling bonuses etc etc. It all counts toward showing a LOT more if that's the purpose of it, skimping on the stats on your leaderboard kind of only inspires a certain play in measuring it.

This is accounted for in a match score, so these stats would be redundant. As people here said already, W/L, K/D and score are enough to see if the player is good enough to carry his weight or is he a total potato.

The assumption that top players are wasting their time to troll pugs using their alts is laughable. This tiny portion of population can't affect the matches as a whole no matter what they do. Even if they could, they would just balance out each other.

[Kroete]

tutzdes, on 25 September 2018 - 01:58 AM, said:

This is accounted for in a match score, so these stats would be redundant. As people here said already, W/L, K/D and score are enough to see if the player is good enough to carry his weight or is he a total potato.

KD? Just hold your fire and take the kill.
MS? Spread lots of damage.
Seeig if someone is padding kd or damage is not possible because missing kmmd stat.

WL is the only stat you cant farm in pug play,
but by farming small groups with 12 mens in groupplay (and kd and ms too, in this case).
Mixing pug and groupstats together invalidates the stats overall.

Would be good if pgi would make different roosters for pug and groupplay and add kmmd to it.
This change would cost less then 1 hour with a well documented code and an average coder.

Edited by Kroete, 25 September 2018 - 02:39 AM.

[Tiewolf]

Shifty McSwift, on 24 September 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

I mean does anyone know the guys with top end scores don't purposely troll in their offtime alt accounts? This game is literally swarming with trolls, and I doubt most of them are "randoms".

Okay? Do you think they got nothing better to do with their time e.g. like enjoying the game? If someone would care about fictional Numbers in a video game on a level like this I would strongly advice to consult professional help.

Well in fact most of the times the high skilled players are right about game topics or mechanics. But that is not allways a given because they see the game through their glasses and are strongly biased by that. Even more so because they tend to sit in an eco chamber with other high skilled players.
So are very skilled players allways right or are their agendas allways justified? No not at all but most of the time they are.

Edited by Tiewolf, 25 September 2018 - 02:34 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

I'm sorry but i don't agree.

Accumulated stats mean a lot. Yes, they don't show good a player's positioning is, or aim or his/her ability to.work with their team.

What stats do show is how much they win or lose. For 12 guys to win in a match, 12 others must lose. Which means over a large number of games, the players with a >1.0 wlr are doing SOMETHING to consistently win more games than they lose. And whatever they're doing works. And that includes grouping up in gq to club seals.

[Davegt27]

Bombast, on 24 September 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

The most relevant stats are shown though. Winrate, Survival Rate, KDR, and MSR (As weird and fickle as MSR can be, its still a decent guide). You can tell loads from this info - Who needs to learn to pace themselves, whos a coward, who spends too much time in mega-groups, good players, bad players, ultra players. You can even sometimes spot LRM mainers.

what's MSR??

when I first started I had a 100% disconnects on river city
I used to have many many disconnects including disconnecting when I fought the clan
disconnecting when I neared a gen in my light
I used to fight from the front in my XL Jager (yeah dumb nob move)
it never entered my mind to take my light Mech and run around killing disconnects
the big one was when I saw in one of the old patch notes that you got extra points for shooting people in the back

I never thought of taking my light and going around shooting people in the back (yep another nob move)


I cried when this PSR started and I got put in tier 3, I said no way should I been in tier 3
or 2 or tier 1

I only wish PGI would listen to you guys when you say every body sucks (but you of course and bombast I am not taking to you just the people that instantly consult jarls list every flipping day)

maybe I could get moved out of tier 1

I did pick up some interesting info from the Jarls list (besides how much I suck)

at around 200 match score there are more retired players then active players

Edited by Davegt27, 25 September 2018 - 03:03 AM.

[El Bandito]

Davegt27, on 25 September 2018 - 03:01 AM, said:

I did pick up some interesting info from the Jarls list (besides how much I suck)

at around 200 match score there are more retired players then active players

So many of the truly sucky players do not stick around, and active players generally have higher match score? That's good to hear.