213 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

"I am pretty sure by bringing up your bias he is denying he has any, or downplaying his own biases, which is either incredibly short sighted, or purposely underhanded."

Pointing out that if you are denying you have you own biases is either short sighted or underhanded is not ad hominem...

If I had attacked your person, like calling you a bad noob who needs to get gud for example. That would be ad hominem.

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 September 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

Pointing out that if you are denying you have you own biases is either short sighted or underhanded is not ad hominem...

If I had attacked your person, like calling you a bad noob who needs to get gud for example. That would be ad hominem.

questioning my motive is ad hominem

[Shifty McSwift]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

questioning my motive is ad hominem

Wait are you saying you have zero biases?

Also no, no it is not.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 27 September 2018 - 09:16 PM.

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 September 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Wait are you saying you have zero biases?

No, but you seem to think that I think I don't.

[Shifty McSwift]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 09:16 PM, said:

No, but you seem to think that I think I don't.

Huh? I am going to assume a language barrier and leave it there, because you are making no sense sir.

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 September 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:

Huh? I am going to assume a language barrier and leave it there, because you are making no sense sir.

No, I did not say I have no bias. However, you seem to think that I believe that I do not have any bias. Your whole statement entails putting words in my mouth, or questions my motives, instead of the argument.

Edited by Vxheous, 27 September 2018 - 09:23 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

No, I did not say I have no bias. However, you seem to think that I believe that I do not have any bias. Your whole statement entails putting words in my mouth, or questions my motives, instead of the argument.

No you pointed out Khobais bias as though it was some "gotcha!" moment, he pointed out everyone has biases, that went ignored so I agreed with the sentiment he raised because it is true, the suggestion was you are either ignoring, downplaying or denying your own biases, BECAUSE you used it as an argument against him.

[Vxheous]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 September 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

No you pointed out Khobais bias as though it was some "gotcha!" moment, he pointed out everyone has biases, that went ignored so I agreed with the sentiment he raised because it is true, the suggestion was you are either ignoring, downplaying or denying your own biases, BECAUSE you used it as an argument against him.

True enough, though I pointed out his motive after he himself admitted to it (getting rid of high skilled players)

[Shifty McSwift]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

True enough, though I pointed out his motive after he himself admitted to it (getting rid of high skilled players)

Look, I was pretty close to going through and pointing out your logical fallacies and when and where your bias is showing, but I have found logical fallacies are mostly best left ignored IF there are actual arguments being made with them, or just pointed out and moved on, because we all fall into those traps on occasion in these forms of fast text based communications. If there is are actual points to discuss, just focus on those, I have tried my best to do that here, and would appreciate avoiding petty back and forths here and in the future.

But we are all humans, flawed and biased as we are, so it will probably happen again.

[Pelmeshek]

Kroete, on 27 September 2018 - 03:29 AM, said:

Most players playing casual, just look at comp-play, solaris or groupplay and pgis numbers.
Competive players are a small minority, like cw- or groupplayers.

Blaming more then 80% of the players because they dont take a game as serious then you sounds a little strange.
Letting compplayers and casualplayers or groups and pugs play together is only pgis failure.

Istn there a comp-queue where you dont have to play with casuals?

No its not a strange, its a normal. Just look for a usuall casual builds:








Right how i have over 14k screen with this "casual builds". U still think we not need to blame 80-85-90% players of this game for this?
Geez, sometime i really want to create antimetamechs with name and shame.

Edited by Pelmeshek, 27 September 2018 - 10:57 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Pelmeshek, on 27 September 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

Right how i have over 14k screen with this "casual builds". U still think we not need to blame 80-85-90% players of this game for this?

I would more blame the game for giving options to nerf ones self so badly by choice to be honest, not only that, which could be fine on its own, but a lack of internal motivation to build better and stock standard mechs that perform like absolute trash being advertised as "normal/stock loadouts".

Sure some responsibility lies on the players making the choices and/or their lack of want to go outside for advice etc, but the structure of the game has some pretty big "traps" for newer players in it at this stage.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 September 2018 - 11:14 PM, said:

Sure some responsibility lies on the players making the choices and/or their lack of want to go outside for advice etc, but the structure of the game has some pretty big "traps" for newer players in it at this stage.

I feel like that's just an excuse. We were all new at one point or another and we fell into some of these traps (which were even worse way back, btw), and yet some of us still managed to figure it out and do better.

[denAirwalkerrr]

******** aside main problem is still absence of proper matchmaker due to extremely low player count. Yet again PGI could at very least try to balance teams based on avg matchscore to prevent stuff like this from happening (yes it was solo queue). But why bother if you wanna buy a mechpack?



Just in case someone don’t know why these players are highlighted: https://leaderboard....r%0D%0AWrithenn

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 27 September 2018 - 11:32 PM.

[Vxheous]

denAirwalkerrr, on 27 September 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

******** aside main problem is still absence of proper matchmaker due to extremely low player count. Yet again PGI could at very least try to balance teams based on avg matchscore to prevent stuff like this from happening (yes it was solo queue). But why bother if you wanna buy a mechpack?



Just in case someone don’t know why these players are highlighted: https://leaderboard....r%0D%0AWrithenn

The bigger question is.....did Bowser even get to shoot in the Dire wolf?

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 September 2018 - 11:24 PM, said:

I feel like that's just an excuse. We were all new at one point or another and we fell into some of these traps (which were even worse way back, btw), and yet some of us still managed to figure it out and do better.

Don't you think it would be nice to have internal mechanics pointing toward the meta for the sake of helping out noobs though? Seriously I feel like I shouldn't need to argue the merits, the hope is to bring as many peoples chances up by showing them how to best utilise the game aspects and ignore what is essentially a lot of fluff and traps disguised as something comparable.

It's not going to negatively impact anyone to have such things, other than maybe having more people in better mechs, I feel like blaming the willfully selfnerfing doesn't have any positive result at all.

[Pelmeshek]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:

The bigger question is.....did Bowser even get to shoot in the Dire wolf?

Ofc if he equip lrm in dire

[denAirwalkerrr]

Vxheous, on 27 September 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:

The bigger question is.....did Bowser even get to shoot in the Dire wolf?

A bit)

Pelmeshek, on 27 September 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

Ofc if he equip lrm in dire

Jokes on you but Writhenn was LRM Onion.

[Pelmeshek]

denAirwalkerrr, on 27 September 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

Jokes on you but Writhenn was LRM Onion.

haHa i know it!

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 September 2018 - 11:37 PM, said:

Don't you think it would be nice to have internal mechanics pointing toward the meta for the sake of helping out noobs though? Seriously I feel like I shouldn't need to argue the merits, the hope is to bring as many peoples chances up by showing them how to best utilise the game aspects and ignore what is essentially a lot of fluff and traps disguised as something comparable.

It's not going to negatively impact anyone to have such things, other than maybe having more people in better mechs, I feel like blaming the willfully selfnerfing doesn't have any positive result at all.

Is that really necessary? The players can see what they are getting regularly fragged by and what 'Mechs are putting up big numbers, it's not exactly obfuscated. You'd think they'd decide to ape that. Instead, what's the response? "Meta cheese tryhards!"

From reading around this forum, the issue seems less about education and more of a fundamental unwillingness to acquiesce to the realities of the game mechanics. That PGI keeps catering to these players by nerfing what those players think are outliers only drives away the very people who actually do give enough of a damn to help new players out on the path to success.

[dante245]

Khobai, on 25 September 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

uh its not just large groups that are the problem.

any group that can skew the win percentages in their favor so they win significantly more than 50% of the time is part of the problem. theyre abusing the fact you can stack your team because group queue doesnt have a functional matchmaker that will stack the other team equally in response.

so I guess more specifically the problem is the lack of a functioning matchmaker and the lack of enough players to make said matchmaker work. since we have neither of those things, and never will at this point, its unreasonable to expect group queue to ever be balanced. Players will just continue abusing the system.

its sad that small casual groups get trampled. but such is the reality of MWO and the toxic state of group queue.

if PGI would actually invest in a media/advertising campaign, it could bring in the needed new blood to make the system we have work.