213 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

I lamented to my brother the other night that the game wasn't very friendly to casual small groups. We had a mutual friend who we would have invited to play with us. But queuing with just 3 people, with one being completely new, does not seem like a good idea in Group Queue. I know I've seen posts by others over the years with the same sentiment. Of inviting friends to have some fun and then getting rolled by a larger coordinated group.

Being able to casually play with friends is probably the best way to encourage new players to join. But we really don't have that option in this game. MW5 will have the option for coop and that's nice. But we could really use an option for MWO.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[BrunoSSace]

Big problem with this game is the tier system. For example I'm tier 1 and my friends who play are tier 5. There is no chance we will get into random games together. I ether have to play really badly and drop back down or wait months for them to level up. The only chance I have is to make an Alt account and do quick play count in drops.

I know its kinda against the rules but its alot more user-friendly then making him/her do that then us the group finder. They will get owned and not have any fun. Since they are not as experience or skilled as most of the people that use it.

Now to your question, the player based in a whole. Dont want small groups in quick play. I see them in Wot all the time and think they are a ok thing and see nother wrong with it. But people see team play as OP and its unfair to the rest of the people in the match. When 3 skilled people can change the outcome of a game.

[Eisenhorne]

Group queue in my experience doesn't have much coordination, beyond people generally taking mechs that work well together. Larger groups have big tonnage penalties, so it's not bad. Generally the team with the better players wins. I'd suggest playing group play anyway, or find a large group that runs 12 man FP and is short a few players and join in. 9 players + 3 newer players on comms who listen is generally better than 9 players + 3 randoms.

[MechaBattler]

Well if we go by which group has the better players. Bringing a new player with a trial mech is probably gimping your team pretty hard. lol.

Edited by MechaBattler, 25 September 2018 - 01:57 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Depends, while you may not hear in game voice coms, some if not all of those groups are likely using Teamspeak, Ventrilo, or Discord to coordinate. For smaller groups they could try with the purposed FP match making changes for Group play if they do work when implemented.

[Navid A1]

I think even thinking about anything resembling a fix or change in this game is a waste of time.

What do you want to change when the developer believes that their current system is best?

Just stop. save your breath (or keyboard). Nothing will change.

[Vxheous]

Small groups already have a benefit of high tonnage. 2-player groups can bring 2 100 ton assault mechs (2 anni or fafnir coordinated in close proximity to each other can hard carry games), 3-player groups can bring 3 85 tonners (or 2 90's + 75). 3 Warhawks, 2 Sleipnir (or Deathstrikes) + Night Gyr (or any other heavy under 75 tons), lots of really strong carry combos exist for small groups that large groups don't have. Only strong larger group combos you'll see are assault + piranha stacks (hello CSJx).

Edited by Vxheous, 25 September 2018 - 03:53 PM.

[Khobai]

uh its not just large groups that are the problem.

any group that can skew the win percentages in their favor so they win significantly more than 50% of the time is part of the problem. theyre abusing the fact you can stack your team because group queue doesnt have a functional matchmaker that will stack the other team equally in response.

so I guess more specifically the problem is the lack of a functioning matchmaker and the lack of enough players to make said matchmaker work. since we have neither of those things, and never will at this point, its unreasonable to expect group queue to ever be balanced. Players will just continue abusing the system.

its sad that small casual groups get trampled. but such is the reality of MWO and the toxic state of group queue.

Edited by Khobai, 25 September 2018 - 05:12 PM.

[50 50]

you can get a game in group queue?

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 25 September 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

uh its not just large groups that are the problem.

any group that can skew the win percentages in their favor so they win significantly more than 50% of the time is part of the problem. theyre abusing the fact you can stack your team because group queue doesnt have a functional matchmaker that will stack the other team equally in response.

so I guess more specifically the problem is the lack of a functioning matchmaker and the lack of enough players to make said matchmaker work. since we have neither of those things, and never will at this point, its unreasonable to expect group queue to ever be balanced. Players will just continue abusing the system.

its sad that small casual groups get trampled. but such is the reality of MWO and the toxic state of group queue.

It's abuse to play with friends now?

[El Bandito]

Vxheous, on 25 September 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

Only strong larger group combos you'll see are assault + piranha stacks (hello CSJx).

Or (MS) Crab rush.

Vxheous, on 25 September 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

Small groups already have a benefit of high tonnage. 2-player groups can bring 2 100 ton assault mechs (2 anni or fafnir coordinated in close proximity to each other can hard carry games), 3-player groups can bring 3 85 tonners (or 2 90's + 75). 3 Warhawks, 2 Sleipnir (or Deathstrikes) + Night Gyr (or any other heavy under 75 tons), lots of really strong carry combos exist for small groups that large groups don't have.

I prefer to group with a competent player in a Piranha, than a noob in a MCII.

[Mr Steinbrenner]

Eisenhorne, on 25 September 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

Group queue in my experience doesn't have much coordination, beyond people generally taking mechs that work well together. Larger groups have big tonnage penalties, so it's not bad. Generally the team with the better players wins. I'd suggest playing group play anyway, or find a large group that runs 12 man FP and is short a few players and join in. 9 players + 3 newer players on comms who listen is generally better than 9 players + 3 randoms.

You are kidding yourself, being a 2 man in Group Queue is cancer. Its all to late now but if MWO catered to the small group environment like PUBG or WOT youd probably have a much larger playerbase. Catering to these 12 mans ruined 2 out of 3 game modes. You believed in the big groups to self regulate and they just couldnt.

[Lykaon]

Mr Steinbrenner, on 25 September 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

You are kidding yourself, being a 2 man in Group Queue is cancer. Its all to late now but if MWO catered to the small group environment like PUBG or WOT youd probably have a much larger playerbase. Catering to these 12 mans ruined 2 out of 3 game modes. You believed in the big groups to self regulate and they just couldnt.

MWO does and did cater to the smallest group possible,the solo player.

And where is this catering to 12 player groups?

Is it with a well balanced match maker group queue enjoys? probably not because there is none.

Maybe it's efficient match queues? nope not that either?

Maybe it's in favorable in game mechanics that encourage large groups....wait not that either units need to pay to recruit and the price is higher the larger the unit is...hmm...Come to think of it player units are largely isolated from their primary source of new recruits,new solo players.

Could it be freedom of choice of mechs...nope severe tonnage restrictions placed upon large groups...

Or is it....um...I give up where is this catering?

Small groups are catered to but not spoon fed like the solos are.

[Vellron2005]

What we need to do for GQ is limit group size to 4-6.

And we need to send 2-man groups to Solo Que if they can't find a match in GQ within 60 seconds.

[Wil McCullough]

Vellron2005, on 25 September 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

What we need to do for GQ is limit group size to 4-6.

And we need to send 2-man groups to Solo Que if they can't find a match in GQ within 60 seconds.

The small groups that get crushed in gq will get crushed even harder if group sizes are limited. Small groups mean less drop weight restrictions. If they get smacked around by bushies, they're gonna get smacked even harder by linebackers/hellbies.

Solo queue should just be exclusively solo queue. Just because a small group got crushed in gq doesn't mean they're now entitled.to be the ones with the stick clubbing solo players.

You've tried pushing this agenda before and got exposed. Don't try it again.

[Mr Steinbrenner]

Lykaon, on 25 September 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

MWO does and did cater to the smallest group possible,the solo player.

And where is this catering to 12 player groups?

Is it with a well balanced match maker group queue enjoys? probably not because there is none.

Maybe it's efficient match queues? nope not that either?

Maybe it's in favorable in game mechanics that encourage large groups....wait not that either units need to pay to recruit and the price is higher the larger the unit is...hmm...Come to think of it player units are largely isolated from their primary source of new recruits,new solo players.

Could it be freedom of choice of mechs...nope severe tonnage restrictions placed upon large groups...

Or is it....um...I give up where is this catering?

Small groups are catered to but not spoon fed like the solos are.

By allowing 12 mans at all, ever. Groups should have be max 4-6 in every game mode including FP, it could have made the macro side of FP more interesting with large companies on comms across multiple planets attacking simultaneously rather than 12 mans steam rolling one planet at a time. But its all to late for that.

[El Bandito]

Mr Steinbrenner, on 26 September 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

By allowing 12 mans at all, ever. Groups should have be max 4-6 in every game mode including FP, it could have made the macro side of FP more interesting with large companies on comms across multiple planets attacking simultaneously rather than 12 mans steam rolling one planet at a time. But its all to late for that.

Tweet Russ to push 8v8 for QP!

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

Or (MS) Crab rush.

I prefer to group with a competent player in a Piranha, than a noob in a MCII.

True....

But an example of the extreme polarization the game is now..... To grow, there has to be limits on exploits or skill levels.... Otherwise, the entire game becomes the veterans whom all know and use the exploits (i.e. crab rushes) and new players whom just can't stand loss after loss after loss..... Polarization kills game populations.....

[Khobai]

Vxheous, on 25 September 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

It's abuse to play with friends now?

no its not an abuse to play with friends. nor is that what I said. stop deflecting.

its an abuse when you stack multiple good players on one team knowing the game doesnt have anything in place to put a similar number of equally skilled players on the other team to balance the two teams.

you are significantly skewing your win/loss ratio by ensuring one team has an above average number of skilled players compared to the other team. that is team stacking. there is no other way of viewing it. how is that not abuse?

so dont give me that crap. you know full well its an abuse of the system.

because if we had an actual working matchmaker that balanced teams properly, peoples' win ratios would be closer to 1.0 W/L. You wouldnt have players with 8.0 W/L ratios which are only possible because of the ability to consistently stack teams.

so yeah thats the problem in a nutshell: the ability to stack one team full of good players so you win way more often than you should.

Edited by Khobai, 26 September 2018 - 06:19 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Eisenhorne, on 25 September 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

Group queue in my experience doesn't have much coordination, beyond people generally taking mechs that work well together. Larger groups have big tonnage penalties, so it's not bad. Generally the team with the better players wins. I'd suggest playing group play anyway, or find a large group that runs 12 man FP and is short a few players and join in. 9 players + 3 newer players on comms who listen is generally better than 9 players + 3 randoms.

I seem to see this in Group Queue all the time. 3 People in Group Queue 2 of which have no idea what they are doing and throw up a 30-70 dmg score and die within 2-3 minutes. The friend does 200 dmg and lasts 5-7 minutes ... 3 players doing less than 3-400 dmg collectively. Bottom line Tier 4-5 pilots should not be in group queue with groups of players tier 3 and above.