49 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

MischiefSC, on 28 September 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

Do either of you use 2x weapon groups? Was it all the guns on one weapon group with a manual double-pull on the trigger?

One group, manual double tap

MischiefSC, on 28 September 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

B ) it shouldn't be random at all. It should be 17%. It's not 17%, that's the issue.

It is 17%, but the way guns jam when double tapped should follow the binomial distribution. It doesn't, hence the bug.

0 Jams 22.5% of the time
1 Jams 36.9% of the time
2 Jams 26.5% of the time
3 Jams 10.8% of the time
4 Jams 2.8% of the time
5 Jams 0.5% of the time
rest <0.01% of the time

[Y E O N N E]

Nightbird, on 28 September 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

It is 17%, but the way guns jam when double tapped should follow the binomial distribution. It doesn't, hence the bug.

Without seeing the game's underlying code, what makes you think that? For all we know, they programmed jam chance along a uniform distribution.

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 28 September 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

That's what I was thinking. It could be some sort of cumulative algorithm that applies a failed jam test to the next trigger pull.

Nightbird/El Bandito -

Do either of you use 2x weapon groups? Was it all the guns on one weapon group with a manual double-pull on the trigger?

All the guns were in one group, and I manually double tapped.

BTW, mine's had a total of 121 jams out of 800 shots. Which translates to 15.1% average jam chance.

Nightbird's first test had 74 jams out of 544 shots. Which translates to 13.6 % average jam chance.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 September 2018 - 08:08 PM.

[Nightbird]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 September 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

Without seeing the game's underlying code, what makes you think that? For all we know, they programmed jam chance along a uniform distribution.

Nope

[LordNothing]

i believe pgi's random number generator looks something like this:



knowing pgi they are using the rng server side to prevent players from haxxoring their entropy. and a feature of that system is the number is cached locally and is reused if another dice roll is needed. hence most of your guns jamming together. i base this claim on absolutely nothing.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 September 2018 - 10:02 PM.

[MischiefSC]

It's a 17% jam chance on a double tap. It can only be expressed as a binominal distribution - it either jams or it doesn't.

In simple terms it's not "random". It's 17%. Over a reasonable sample size, which 68 is, you should see a specific pattern when firing 8 of them together. We're not seeing that pattern and when the test was rerun we got another divergent result with another deviant result.

Thus is akin to being told you'll get a 10% bonus on your salary every year. Your weekly checks may vary but if you made $50,000 at the end of the year you'd expect a $5,000 bonus.

Instead you got $3,417.23 and a pack of Tic Tacs. Your coworker who made exactly what you did on the same bonus structure and exact same job title got a bonus of $2,754.14 and a coupon for $5 off two large pizzas.

You're going to have questions as to why you didn't get the 10% it was supposed to see. An answer of "but your hours changed weekly" does not cut it because at the end of the year it should be 10%.

68 doubletaps is 544 individual shots over a total of 8 guns. It's been repeated three times using the same method (manual doubletap, one weapon group, same mech). Each has produced results other than what 17% should provide.

That's the issue.

[s0da72]

It makes me sick if these numbers are accurate. You would think someone running the QA team at PGI would have done a test like this in Beta 4+ years ago.

People have complained about Jam's numerous times over the years. It's one of the most frustrating game mechanics to play with. I wish they would get rid of it and implement something else.

[Nightbird]

s0da72, on 29 September 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

It makes me sick if these numbers are accurate. You would think someone running the QA team at PGI would have done a test like this in Beta 4+ years ago.

People have complained about Jam's numerous times over the years. It's one of the most frustrating game mechanics to play with. I wish they would get rid of it and implement something else.

People that understand math are REALLY expensive to hire, so I don't blame PGI. If you're in school, learn it

[Remover of Obstacles]

Is it possible that PGI has made the jam chance dependent on how long after the initial shot the second shot within the period is fired?

Might be just my impression, but I seem to get less jams the longer I wait to double tap with UAC10s.

Might not make much difference on UAC2's.

[Nightbird]

Remover of Obstacles, on 29 September 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Is it possible that PGI has made the jam chance dependent on how long after the initial shot the second shot within the period is fired?

Might be just my impression, but I seem to get less jams the longer I wait to double tap with UAC10s.

Might not make much difference on UAC2's.

If you have a clicking program, you can test that. You just need to use 1 UAC10, and 2 sets of 30 double taps. One set 0.1second delay to double tap, one set 1.5 sec delay to double tap.