133 replies to this topic

[roboPrancer]

When will they just admit that lrms just need to be an insta-locking flat plane direct fire weapon

[Mole]

I'm not an avid user of LRMs but I have a 'mech that uses LRMs and a pile of them that use ATMs and I have noticed almost no change in difficulty while achieving and holding a lock. I don't know what it says about the skill of players that claim they cannot hold an LRM lock since the nerf, but it sure as **** ain't good.

[Novakaine]

You are being just about disingenuous as they come.
It's what I run almost exclusively since closed beta.
So yeah I can tell the difference.
But hey my fish tacos were delicious.
And I'm not being disingenuous.

[S O L A I S]

Novakaine, on 29 September 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

You are being just about disingenuous as they come.
It's what I run almost exclusively since closed beta.
So yeah I can tell the difference.
But hey my fish tacos were delicious.
And I'm not being disingenuous.

Nova I am another that finds hardly any increase in difficulty getting locks with the new arc adjustment to the mechanic. It would be disingenuous if people said they noticed no difference at all but it is absolutely accurate with zero ill intent to describe that change as insignificant. The ECM making it harder? Sure, I have noticed it to be a bit more of a pain and easier to get shut down from locks.

As well what you are calling troll boats makes zero sense. I know how you set up your mechs and why and when you are one of the only guys running lurms playing with HHoD backup weapons and the like make sense. However like every other meta game the BCMC/Evil guys to whom I am one and to whom you may be referring favour min/max game. Max tubes, max ammo, max launcher count, available quirks and of coarse the most important part, narcer.

What that is, is us trying to have fun and make them as absolutely devastating as possible, not a group of individuals set out on a conspiracy to ruin the game for lurmers.

So yeah sure you can tell the difference, we all can. However despite your claims, most of us are simply not experiencing the changes as breaking or even as far as the locking mechanic goes, enough of a change. It is still very easy to line up the little circle in the square and I am saying this as someone who runs streaks in both IS and Clan decks and use this mechanic every single day I am playing.

The only thing I can really say is if you are serious yourself and not just being a tad dramatic and oversensitive after years of flak for lurming, there is a really strong chance that your mouse sensitivity settings are way off and too sensitive if you are really not able to get locks quickly and easily.

[Dago Red]

Novakaine, on 29 September 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

You are being just about disingenuous as they come.
It's what I run almost exclusively since closed beta.
So yeah I can tell the difference.
But hey my fish tacos were delicious.
And I'm not being disingenuous.

Gonna be another that chimes in with the lock time being definitely noticeable but the lock angle I can't even tell. Maybe I was aiming them WAY more accurately than required the whole time.

It's ATM's that really feel jacked from a lock perspective as when fishing for that 3 damage per missile bracket slowed locks get you killed where as running the trial trebuchet I had no problems hanging at 600 meters and spamming.

[Dogstar]

Do none of the LRMers know that you can fire LRMs and ATMs _without_ a lock? It works really well at short to moderate ranges and you're target gets no warning at all - that's how you play aggressive LRMS!

[Dago Red]

Dogstar, on 30 September 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

Do none of the LRMers know that you can fire LRMs and ATMs _without_ a lock? It works really well at short to moderate ranges and you're target gets no warning at all - that's how you play aggressive LRMS!

Unless the enemy is shut down, facing away from you and standing still or an Annihilator there's no way in hell the won't dodge dumb fired missile even accidentally. And for streaks (which I don't run but deserve to be mentioned) the option of dumb firing isn't even available.

[Dogstar]

Dago Red, on 30 September 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

Unless the enemy is shut down, facing away from you and standing still or an Annihilator there's no way in hell the won't dodge dumb fired missile even accidentally.

Utter hyperbole.

[K O Z A K]

"The only place I've ever seen aggressive lrm players is on the forums"

[Shifty McSwift]

Hazeclaw, on 30 September 2018 - 04:59 AM, said:

"The only place I've ever seen aggressive lrm players is on the forums"

I very rarely spectate in QP because it mostly just messes with my head to see directly into the void like that. But in the past I actually did spectate a couple of very good LRM players, one was a catapult with a tag another was some medium with a narc, this was quite a while ago though, before ATMs. But rest assured some people do know how to best take advantage of the weapon through utilising positioning, speed and awareness, just like any other "good" player might function.

And I would be lying if I said I hadn't been killed by good LRM usage or just lurmspam polar etc.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 30 September 2018 - 05:10 AM.

[Gen Lee]

Chados, on 29 September 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Stick with Clan mechs, drop a few tubes, drop Artemis, and add an active probe and TC1. And check off the entire sensor tree. Lock time will speed up, your hang time will improve, the only thing you really lose is cone size. It’s not a perfect solution but it helps. IS mechs lose too much engine and tube size for that to work well.

Hiten Bongz, on 29 September 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

Uhh, which one of those things actually speeds up locks...?

Chados, on 29 September 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

TCs do. Check the pop up. The AP might also, at least it seems to act that way in game. It’s not enough to use streaks but it seems to help LRMs.

Incorrect. Targeting Computers have no effect on missile systems at all. They only affect AC/UAC and all types of PPCs regarding velocity, laser and TAG ranges. The other stuff, such as targeting DATA, pertains only to the paperdoll information in the HUD...you get that info quicker, but not missile locks. BAP and CAP help increase sensor ranges, and only help WRT missile locks when they BAP or CAP is within the devices' range of ECM, nullifying the extra time ECM causes in slowing down locks. Active Probes only counter one ECM device.

WRT the Sensor skills, none of them help you get a missile lock quicker. There are nodes that increase sensor range, and nodes that increase the amount of time you can hold a lock after your target moves out of your line of sight.

Edited by Gen Lee, 30 September 2018 - 05:54 AM.

[Chados]

Gen Lee, on 30 September 2018 - 05:53 AM, said:

Incorrect. Targeting Computers have no effect on missile systems at all. They only affect AC/UAC and all types of PPCs regarding velocity, laser and TAG ranges. The other stuff, such as targeting DATA, pertains only to the paperdoll information in the HUD...you get that info quicker, but not missile locks. BAP and CAP help increase sensor ranges, and only help WRT missile locks when they BAP or CAP is within the devices' range of ECM, nullifying the extra time ECM causes in slowing down locks. Active Probes only counter one ECM device.

WRT the Sensor skills, none of them help you get a missile lock quicker. There are nodes that increase sensor range, and nodes that increase the amount of time you can hold a lock after your target moves out of your line of sight.

Whatever you say, bro.

S O L A I S, on 29 September 2018 - 09:51 PM, said:

Nova I am another that finds hardly any increase in difficulty getting locks with the new arc adjustment to the mechanic. It would be disingenuous if people said they noticed no difference at all but it is absolutely accurate with zero ill intent to describe that change as insignificant. The ECM making it harder? Sure, I have noticed it to be a bit more of a pain and easier to get shut down from locks.

As well what you are calling troll boats makes zero sense. I know how you set up your mechs and why and when you are one of the only guys running lurms playing with HHoD backup weapons and the like make sense. However like every other meta game the BCMC/Evil guys to whom I am one and to whom you may be referring favour min/max game. Max tubes, max ammo, max launcher count, available quirks and of coarse the most important part, narcer.

What that is, is us trying to have fun and make them as absolutely devastating as possible, not a group of individuals set out on a conspiracy to ruin the game for lurmers.

So yeah sure you can tell the difference, we all can. However despite your claims, most of us are simply not experiencing the changes as breaking or even as far as the locking mechanic goes, enough of a change. It is still very easy to line up the little circle in the square and I am saying this as someone who runs streaks in both IS and Clan decks and use this mechanic every single day I am playing.

The only thing I can really say is if you are serious yourself and not just being a tad dramatic and oversensitive after years of flak for lurming, there is a really strong chance that youtr mouse sensitivity settings are way off and too sensitive if you are really not able to get locks quickly and easily.

Said the min-maxer hanging back at maximum range. The very kind of LRM use that is the only one unaffected by the nerfs to Artemis and the lock cone. As Novakaine and Hiten and Hammer pointed out.

[Ssamout]

Huh? Some ones favorite play style has gotten a little nerf has it? Welcome to the club.

[Geek Verve]

Lykaon, on 29 September 2018 - 08:17 PM, said:

A forward positioned LRM carrier can and frequently is a force multiplier.

That would be interesting, but my personal experience is that a LRM boat up front serves more to compel an otherwise disorganized team to suddenly learn how to focus fire.

I'm still a n00b, though, so what do I know.

[Horseman]

Chados, on 29 September 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

TCs do. Check the pop up. The AP might also, at least it seems to act that way in game. It’s not enough to use streaks but it seems to help LRMs.

Chados, on 30 September 2018 - 06:02 AM, said:

Whatever you say, bro.

He's right. "Targeting Data Speed" refers to the rate at which the paperdoll display becomes available - and updates - after locking target.

Ssamout, on 30 September 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Huh? Some ones favorite play style has gotten a little nerf has it? Welcome to the club.

The lock speed reduction and lock cone reduction made it considerably harder to acquire and hold locks - and reacquiring them afterwards cannot be done before the missiles hit any more.
This wasn't a little nerf but rather a major neutering.

Edited by Horseman, 30 September 2018 - 06:49 AM.

[Astrocanis]

Eisenhorne, on 29 September 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

I have literally never seen tactical and aggressive LRM use be effective in a game. I'm not joking. I've never seen it. Only on these forums is it discussed.

Is it your contention that because you've never seen it, it has never happened? The nerfs were bad enough that I have shelved my KTO-18(C) because it's just not worth taking any more. And I am a very aggressive player with it, usually at less than 300 M. I used it for "lurm scouting" just to dumbfire over a location to seen where AMS was coming from.

With the lock problem now, I cannot continue to be a seriously mobile platform because I can't hold the reticle steady enough over terrain and both my and my target's movement. So, it sits. Now I play more of my Wolverines. They're fun. But my best games were in my 5xlrm5 2xerml KTO.

Between the reticle and target duration changes, combined with "every player can have radar dep" with very small limitations to their build, it's no longer effective. Or fun. I haven't complained about it because I have other mechs that I can play. But a glib "I've never seen it" doesn't mean it never happened.

[edit] And it moved at 97kph. Not a REMF by any means.

Edited by Astrocanis, 30 September 2018 - 06:58 AM.

[Novakaine]

He's seen it before because he's played with me often enough to know.
Really nice guy though and everyone is entitled to his opinion.
If I'm running my Stalker 5M I have to close the range of my med lasers and SRM's.
304 to 350 meters to maximize to my firepower.
So with the massive ECM and AMS presence on the battlefield.
It's a stealth nerf in itself.
Which means you have to account for the totality of the battlefield environment.
So now it's not the best for lurmers unless you troll.
And I stand by that comment.
"Ya play the game you take your chances."
But now it's just an exercise in frustration.

Edited by Novakaine, 30 September 2018 - 07:31 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

I've seen too many lrm assaults with about 98% armor left mid game, who "agressively" sitting in cover and "tactically" lobbing lurms onto the first best friendly lock which appears. No thanks. I'd rather run my NARC/LRM deck with friends then cater towards the quickplay LRM crowd.

Also, who's affected by the lock on changes? Like how bad has someone's aim to be that they can't even lock on anymore. That's pretty much in the realm of physical disability.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 30 September 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Hazeclaw, on 30 September 2018 - 04:59 AM, said:

"The only place I've ever seen aggressive lrm players is on the forums"

Ok. That's funny.

[HammerMaster]

Ssamout, on 30 September 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Huh? Some ones favorite play style has gotten a little nerf has it? Welcome to the club.

By no means is it a "LITTLE" nerf.
Too many factors came together for an OVERALL knocking down of a few pegs for LRM use.
AMS buffs. (which I'm fine with because LRMHaters SHOULD be mounting them)
ECM buff  (Filth plain and simple. Range wise is fine but ECM implementation is plain wrong)
TWO (2) nerfs to lock cone/angle
Lock on time nerfs  (due to Artemis nerf)

Edited by HammerMaster, 30 September 2018 - 08:06 AM.