47 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

Slapped TAG on my semi-lurmboat, removed artemis, and it's literally the same thing as before. Problem is, not every such mech has convenient spot for a TAG to install, which makes LRMs obsolete. See too many folks just standing and mashing "all the missiles" while hitting maybe with 10% of them at best on someone's locks...

Also tested Streaks. Yeah, lock on time is a bit of pain, and I don't have energy hardpoint on my ACW for TAG, but with unlocked arms, smaller lock circle is barely any hindrance.

[LordBraxton]

anyone complaining about lurms is a baddy lets be honest

revert them to how they were a year ago, when they 'sucked' but were fun to use

Edited by LordBraxton, 07 October 2018 - 06:15 PM.

[El Bandito]

Variant1, on 07 October 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

that would be highly imbalanced, lights would die more quicker then they already do and that would make lrm spam even worse.

Due to proposed LRM's atrocious 125 m/s velocity, Lights will have plenty of time to get to cover.

[GeminiWolf]

Axys Rageborn, on 06 October 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

Click baited!!!

With the latest event going on at the moment I have experienced the frustration of the changes the last Artemis nerf inflicted. Now I don't normally use any lock on missiles mainly because there are funner weapons

Sorry you lost credibility at the word "funner". I could no longer finish reading your post.

[MischiefSC]

Axys Rageborn, on 07 October 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity why?

We already have a ton of stuff we never use and a ton of stuff we need. We need compression of nodes to fewer total. Not more nodes. They'd put these crappy LRM nodes somewhere I'd have to go through to get something useful.j

I should have realized that when some good players started using LRMs and doing well with them terribads would complain that now LRMs are not useable in some way. I mean we're literally at the first time in the games history where there's some successful niche uses for LRMs and they're not 100% always and in all ways inferior to direct fire for all situations.

[justcallme A S H]

LRM needs a decrease in lock speed?

Lol... Get your own locks.

LRMs are still in a bad place... Too heat efficient, too fast. The two balance buffs that they did not need.

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 07 October 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

LRM needs a decrease in lock speed?

Lol... Get your own locks.

LRMs are still in a bad place... Too heat efficient, too fast. The two balance buffs that they did not need.

That's what's so funny.

When LRMs were trash all these people saying 'NO NO, LRMs are great if you know how to use them (like I'm implying I do)".

In reality they were absolute garbage.

LRMs finally end up in a place where they have a niche in some situations and maps and it's not a bad idea to bring AMS and some ECM sometimes if you're IS vs Clans and now you've got largely the same people saying LRMs are bad and need a buff and are almost useless now.

It's not irony - it's a clear indication of exactly what the real problem is.

[Axys Rageborn]

bahaha its funny reading the response to this honestly. I don't use LRM's at all as they dont really fit my play style nor do I hate them. The Lock-on time decrease was more towards steaks and ATMs then lurms. The problem is that the lock on mechanic is for all "Missiles" that use the lock-on not just lurmz and that's why its in a weird spot.

Anyways it doesn't really bother me what happens I'm just trying to suggest stuff to see if something will help but hey I'm terri bad cause I mentioned missiles.

[Yondu Udonta]

Axys Rageborn, on 07 October 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

I just want people to play and saying that lurms are for the unskilled is why people feel alienated and stop playing. They are the gateway weapon to get people in and they really not that hard to beat once you understand core mechanics in this game.

I run dakka on my mechs, get about 90% accuracy and some guy who boats lurms does more damage than me. Sure ain't hard to beat when comparing damage numbers. Counter lurms in a broad open map like Polar Highlands domination? I would like to see you try. Anyone who runs lurms because it is the only way they can get good damage numbers should git gud and learn how to play a FPS the right way, by using direct fire weapons.

[Eisenhorne]

MischiefSC, on 07 October 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

That's what's so funny.

When LRMs were trash all these people saying 'NO NO, LRMs are great if you know how to use them (like I'm implying I do)".

In reality they were absolute garbage.

LRMs finally end up in a place where they have a niche in some situations and maps and it's not a bad idea to bring AMS and some ECM sometimes if you're IS vs Clans and now you've got largely the same people saying LRMs are bad and need a buff and are almost useless now.

It's not irony - it's a clear indication of exactly what the real problem is.

I was drunk last night and went lurmin' in Quick Play... brought out my LRM Fafnir for the first time. 39 games, 2.17 win rate, 1.67 K/D rate, Average Match Score 429. Average damage per game 791. This is including games on maps where LRM's are less than useful. I'd be willing to bet my median score was closer to 1000, since you gotta factor in the few 100-300 damage games like that.

LRMs in no way need a buff... they are extremely powerful if you just bring a mech that boats them. As much fun as it would be to average 2000 damage per game, I don't think that would help balance.

[Flyby215]

Axys Rageborn, on 06 October 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

Click baited!!!

Awww.

[Novakaine]

"Use Scrubo!"
Scrubin the Galaxy clean of Clanker fith since 2011!

[Lykaon]

MischiefSC, on 07 October 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

Except that LRMs are currently at their strongest position since they were accidentally made head/ct seeking.

I've noticed that for a very long time the average joe didn't have to do much to defend themselves from LRMs. We once had very potent ECM and effective AMS and an overall map design and selection bias that is not overly favorable to LRM use. Then we got radar derper modules and the need to actually take any real active part in defending from LRMs was largely a map based issue and not a general state of awareness skillset situation.

Godlike ECM is tonned way down.

Along comes the skill trees and the derper modules for everyone goes away.

But overall the potential access to ECM and AMS increased. We have several ECM mechs now that can pretty much fill any combat role and be of any weight class. We have several multi AMS chassis now even a clan mech that can hold 4 of them!

But access did not equal use. AMS was still under utilized until really quite recently and I still occationally find ECM stacked heavily on only one team and not the other.

So we have a current state of affairs where the lazyness encouraged in the past can not cut it anymore. I see the average joe's "go to method" of LRM defense is to hunker down and get pinned essentially playing into the LRM carrier's game and allowing the control to persist rather than take effective actions.


I have been here a very long time and I have seen pretty much everything happen I saw LRMs get range boosted from the "table top" 600m to a 1 km range. I saw ECM and TAG added saw to inclusion of NARC several alterations to everything LRM including sound effects to ballistic arc.

Back in the beta days there was no AMS,no UAVs and no ECM we had no NARC or TAG and we had truly aweful hit detection allowing rapidly moving lights to "lagshield" their way through a heated battle.

Back then LRMs were dangerous. Our methods of defense were pretty much all ACTIVE choices rather than passive defenses. We didn't have the luxary of slapping on an ECM,AMS or radar deprivation.We couldn't choose the map that provided us with the best defenses.

LRM carrier were frequently made a high priority for a team to eliminate. Light mech kill teams were deliberately dispatched to take down LRM mechs and their spotters.

This sort of thing just doesn't happen with frequency anymore because we have been made lazy. We have learned that most LRM defense happened before the match began in the mechlab and the map selection screen.

[Lykaon]

Eisenhorne, on 08 October 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

I was drunk last night and went lurmin' in Quick Play... brought out my LRM Fafnir for the first time. 39 games, 2.17 win rate, 1.67 K/D rate, Average Match Score 429. Average damage per game 791. This is including games on maps where LRM's are less than useful. I'd be willing to bet my median score was closer to 1000, since you gotta factor in the few 100-300 damage games like that.

LRMs in no way need a buff... they are extremely powerful if you just bring a mech that boats them. As much fun as it would be to average 2000 damage per game, I don't think that would help balance.

And how often where you being specificly targeted by fast skirmishers? How often did your targets just crawl into cover? how many enemy teams took one look at the cloud of ordnance you sent into the sky and thought "hey we should probably push the enemy HARD"

I would bet more often than not you were left unmolested your targets fell back to cover and enemy teams allowed you to pin them so your team could control the battlefield.

[Kroete]

MischiefSC, on 07 October 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

I should have realized that when some good players started using LRMs and doing well with them terribads would complain that now LRMs are not useable in some way. I mean we're literally at the first time in the games history where there's some successful niche uses for LRMs and they're not 100% always and in all ways inferior to direct fire for all situations.

The speedbuff was what made then "good" instead ok. All the patches after that brough minimal buffs and some nerfs.
Dont know why the groups do not tryed them after the speedbuff?

And your impression comes from the 10% minoriry braket of gp/cw,
in qp, where 90% of the players play, you dont have your dedicated narcer/spotter.

Please stop mixing the general play with the minority play you do.

[Vellron2005]

Axys Rageborn, on 06 October 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

Click baited!!!

With the latest event going on at the moment I have experienced the frustration of the changes the last Artemis nerf inflicted. Now I don't normally use any lock on missiles mainly because there are funner weapons out there (LL's i love them) however I tried the streaks to get the tag assist part done.

While they are hilarious as when they work I feel like the lock-on is pretty much gimped so I wish to propose a change that may restore some functionality for all missiles while keeping the "this or that" feel the mech lab gives us.

This is where the skill tree comes into play and I think PGI needs to use the system they created to giveth back instead of taketh away.

- New sensor tree nodes that increase lock on speed.

Now here is the thing, they should be a deep investment like radar dep or ecm nodes however there is plenty of spaces where 4/5 new nodes could be placed. Each node would give a % to lock on speeds which when all five are taken would be similar to what was lost during the Artemis nerf.

I have created a rough copy for everyone to see below,

https://imgur.com/9jlV1yI

Any thoughts?

NO.

Adding extra nodes that negate the lock-on nerf would nerf something else that LRM / ATM / SSRM boats need to use.

LRM boats in particular are very skill dependant, because they need to specialize in certain node groups like sensors and range and velocity nodes, plus survivability as standard for all mechs - just to stay viable.

5 nodes to invest in lock-on arcs would mean 5 less nodes to invest in sensors, missile range or velocity, and it would hurt them.

We need this silly nerf lifted - flat out. No trade-offs.

Instead, PGI needs to swallow their pride, admit it was a mistake, and re-buff lock-on functionality.

[Eisenhorne]

Lykaon, on 09 October 2018 - 12:33 AM, said:

And how often where you being specificly targeted by fast skirmishers? How often did your targets just crawl into cover? how many enemy teams took one look at the cloud of ordnance you sent into the sky and thought "hey we should probably push the enemy HARD"

I would bet more often than not you were left unmolested your targets fell back to cover and enemy teams allowed you to pin them so your team could control the battlefield.

Maybe half a dozen times I was specifically targeted and killed by fast lights coming up from behind. This was usually on maps like Solaris City or Mining Colony where I had to stay in certain positions to get an optimal firing angle. These are maps where I figured I was useless anyway, so I'll take a chance and try to fire off a few volleys before I die and get some solid hits. I'd usually end up with 300-600 damage this way, which isn't much for an LRM boat, but it's better than nothing.

On more open maps, I was never targetted by skirmishers specifically because I sat with my team. If I was attacked by a light, I'd roll damage across my torso while calling for help over VOIP, and people were usually pretty good at helping shoo the light off.

Many of my targets did crawl back into cover, but if an Annihilator or Fafnir or Atlas is caught moving between cover, I can usually get off 2-3 solid volleys, and consider thats 160-240 damage right there... then I just switch targets. I don't fixate on specific targets in my LRM boat, I'll literally fire at any target of opportunity. I'm not struggling to "get my own locks" or anything, I'll just fire on anything my team locks. I have enough ammo that I can afford to waste a few volleys on things that I probably won't hit, to act more as suppression. People who carry less than 2000 rounds of LRMs are doing it wrong. I had a guy tell me the other day not to waste LRMs on a Piranha.... I was confused. That's literally the highest priority target for me, if I get a clean shot on it I'm taking it. Those are the things that mess up my team the most, and spending 500-600 LRMS to kill one seems like a good trade to me.

Vellron2005, on 09 October 2018 - 02:55 AM, said:

NO.

Adding extra nodes that negate the lock-on nerf would nerf something else that LRM / ATM / SSRM boats need to use.

LRM boats in particular are very skill dependant, because they need to specialize in certain node groups like sensors and range and velocity nodes, plus survivability as standard for all mechs - just to stay viable.

5 nodes to invest in lock-on arcs would mean 5 less nodes to invest in sensors, missile range or velocity, and it would hurt them.

We need this silly nerf lifted - flat out. No trade-offs.

Instead, PGI needs to swallow their pride, admit it was a mistake, and re-buff lock-on functionality.

Why is this nerf a problem? I'm sitting here smashing out massive damage games in my LRM boat... I've had multiple 1400+ damage games yesterday. Its ridiculous. LRMs haven't been nerfed hard enough. While I would enjoy being able to do 2000+ damage, LRMs do NOT need a buff, you just need to use them better.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 09 October 2018 - 03:30 AM.

[Asym]

Oh good grief........another LRM thread.

Play Solaris if you can't stand LRM's. Use AMS, ECM and Radar Dep if you fear the evil, skill less, guided weapons.... Or, play a game where indirect fire isn't there.

This community is lucky that LRM's aren't balanced up or buffed into effectiveness.........even if that means adding required TC's, BAP's, a new ARTEMIS, TAGs or whatever else to decrease LRM carry amounts or basic ammo loads. Cause, if LRM's were buffed to where they were or had equivalent combat effectiveness and mass, you'all would be seriously in trouble from those players and teams that would employ actual military techniques..... Pray, LRMs aren't buffed to the point of parity.....

I'd come back for that and I bet my original team would be interested in returning....

[Kroete]

Eisenhorne, on 09 October 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

People who carry less than 2000 rounds of LRMs are doing it wrong.

You could do the same with less then 2000 rounds until all the nerfs/buffs.

Eisenhorne, on 09 October 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Its ridiculous. LRMs haven't been nerfed hard enough.

No, they got the wrong buffs and nerfs,
made then even more skillless, indirect massspamming at high range,
nerfing the options to use them at low range with selflocks or selflauched uavs.

The opposite most players wanted ...

Edited by Kroete, 09 October 2018 - 05:11 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Kroete, on 09 October 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

You could do the same with less then 2000 rounds until all the nerfs/buffs.


No, they got the wrong buffs and nerfs,
made then even more skillless, indirect massspamming at high range,
nerfing the options to use them at low range with selflocks or selflauched uavs.

The opposite most players wanted ...

I see a lot of people saying they want options for self locks and self launched UAV's and the ability to use LRMS aggressively... I see a lot of people *saying* that. Realistically, that is extremely rare behavior in game. The vast majority of LRM boats I see playing this game do NOT play that way. They sit back, and fire LRMS from a distance, and wait for others to get locks for them.

Hell, this is basically straight up what PGI has stated the intent of the LRM is, that it is long ranged DPS. All of their nerfs seem to support this, in that they are basically only useful in this role. Which isn't really an issue, given that it's how most people play it anyway. Lots of players on the forum are saying they want it one way, but I believe they are actually the minority.