48 replies to this topic

[Clydewinder]

Mad Dog Morgan, on 11 October 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

Rocket launchers aren't worth slotting - could be for a couple reasons, but here's a couple hypotheses as to why they, among other spread weapons, suck dirt.

-Rocket launchers are fragging each other, aka projectile fratricide and not reaching their destination. This is a documented problem with other spread weapons

-Hit registration. Concurrent damage from X amount of sources on a component or multiple components is simply not registering, even with host-state rewind, or the server simply can't handle that many checks in a single tick.

They're utterly broken.

cuz when you only get one shot, faulty hitreg can steal 100% of your damage output

[LordNothing]

another reason to go with independantly firing rockets. hitreg seems to work better when your shots are staggered. things like multiple srms or grouped ballistics/ppcs are the biggest hitreg problems. the ppcs and ballistics can be easily fixed with chain fire. ive had extremely good results using chain fire to mitigate bad hitreg (and uac jamming). either its a bug or a ghost mechanic pgi doesnt want us to know about.

[Jman5]

Verilligo, on 27 October 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

Yeah, sorry. Just an old habit to describe it out, rather than making links.

LPL: ON1-V
LL, more cooling: ON1-V
LL, more armor/ammo: ON1-V
LL, with AMS: ON1-V
MRM40: ON1-V

Ah, thanks!

So lets go through them one at a time.

Large Pulse Laser build: I don't see a good way to improve that build with rocket launchers. But I think this is the weakest of the 5 builds you built. The IS large pulse lasers are so heavy they take a lot of your options away and I don't think an extra 4 tons provide much value over the large laser. Plus there is a large range disparity here between the UAC/5s and LPL.

LL more cooling: One thing you'll see me do a lot is downgrade your engine from 300 to the 295. It's a very easy way to find an extra ton and you only lose a trivial 1kph. Here is how I would make this build better with a rocket launcher.

Same number of heatsinks, same weapons, more armor, and a little ole rocket launcher 10 for +20 damage. All for just 1kph.

LL more armor/ammo: Here is my rocket launcher version that I think is better., I knocked your engine down to 295, same heatsink/ammo, trivial amount of armor shaved off legs/head, but now I've got +60 rocket launcher damage at my disposal.

LL, with AMS: Here is my rocket launcher version. Almost identical except the 1 ton I freed up with the 1kph downgrade bought me 2 RL 10s for +40 damage.

MRM40: Here is my Rocket Launcher version. Shaved more armor off arms, legs and heads, downgraded engine 1 kph, removed Ferro Fibrous, added RL 30 for +60 damage. Everything else the same.

I would also just like to remind you that if spread is your problem the MRM 40 has almost identical spread as the Rocket Launchers except the RL doesn't have staggered fire.

Anyway, as I said earlier, you can see how in a lot of these builds I'm essentially trading 1kph for +20-60 damage per game. However because of the slot spacing issue there just isn't a whole lot else you could do with that free tonnage. IMO the value +1 KPH gives you is neglible where as 60+ damage represents a good chunk of your total damage in a typical game.

Just for the record this is how I run my Orion. 3 DHS is really all I need and I have coolshot when that isn't enough. I run 4.5 tons of ammo and I get an extra 70 damage per game from my Rocket Launchers. Also stripped a fair bit of leg armor. Hell will freeze over the day I get legged in an Orion. I could probably go even lower if I had slot space or needed more ammo. When I'm feeling like I can get away with a hotter build, I up the damage game to this.

The only reasonable thing I can think of to use this extra tonnage I have is either more ammo or a targeting computer. I think I have plenty of ammo and rocket launchers offer more value than the TC1 or 2.

Edited by Jman5, 29 October 2018 - 05:04 PM.

[Verilligo]

Jman5, on 29 October 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

Ah, thanks!

So lets go through them one at a time.

Large Pulse Laser build: I don't see a good way to improve that build with rocket launchers. But I think this is the weakest of the 5 builds you built. The IS large pulse lasers are so heavy they take a lot of your options away and I don't think an extra 4 tons provide much value over the large laser. Plus there is a large range disparity here between the UAC/5s and LPL.

LL more cooling: One thing you'll see me do a lot is downgrade your engine from 300 to the 295. It's a very easy way to find an extra ton and you only lose a trivial 1kph. Here is how I would make this build better with a rocket launcher.

Same number of heatsinks, same weapons, more armor, and a little ole rocket launcher 10 for +20 damage. All for just 1kph.

LL more armor/ammo: Here is my rocket launcher version that I think is better., I knocked your engine down to 295, same heatsink/ammo, trivial amount of armor shaved off legs/head, but now I've got +60 rocket launcher damage at my disposal.

LL, with AMS: Here is my rocket launcher version. Almost identical except the 1 ton I freed up with the 1kph downgrade bought me 2 RL 10s for +40 damage.

MRM40: Here is my Rocket Launcher version. Shaved more armor off arms, legs and heads, downgraded engine 1 kph, removed Ferro Fibrous, added RL 30 for +60 damage. Everything else the same.

I would also just like to remind you that if spread is your problem the MRM 40 has almost identical spread as the Rocket Launchers except the RL doesn't have staggered fire.

Anyway, as I said earlier, you can see how in a lot of these builds I'm essentially trading 1kph for +20-60 damage per game. However because of the slot spacing issue there just isn't a whole lot else you could do with that free tonnage. IMO the value +1 KPH gives you is neglible where as 60+ damage represents a good chunk of your total damage in a typical game.

Just for the record this is how I run my Orion. 3 DHS is really all I need and I have coolshot when that isn't enough. I run 4.5 tons of ammo and I get an extra 70 damage per game from my Rocket Launchers. Also stripped a fair bit of leg armor. Hell will freeze over the day I get legged in an Orion. I could probably go even lower if I had slot space or needed more ammo. When I'm feeling like I can get away with a hotter build, I up the damage game to this.

The only reasonable thing I can think of to use this extra tonnage I have is either more ammo or a targeting computer. I think I have plenty of ammo and rocket launchers offer more value than the TC1 or 2.

I'll honestly admit, I hadn't thought of lowering the engine to 295 for an overall improvement in weight use. Likely because I have so many 300 LFEs around because of the internal sink slot bonus. I still feel like focusing the designs in on better using the primary weapons on the build is the better route, but I can definitely see what you're going for with having some rockets on this particular mech. My opinion may also be a little influenced by having run into hitreg issues the last time I tried rockets out, though that probably has as much to do with my occasionally spotty connection as it does anything with the game's code.

With regards to the MRM comment, though, it's not so much spread that I worry about as it is convergence. The MRM40 launches everything from a single point in the shoulder, but launching stuff out of the arms on an Orion is rife with problems in past experience. That may just be an issue of practice, though, I don't run either type of Orion very often.

[Draconius]

I just got back into the game and accidentally bought the Spitfire Longbow without verifying it's configuration thinking it had missile launchers... This is absolute trash as is. I emptied every single of the 180 rockets into one of the testing grounds light mechs and didn't even kill it. That should have evaporated it. Now I have to figure out how I can salvage it...

[Ignatius Audene]

True tier 1* necro

[Lucky Noob]

Draconius, on 26 January 2024 - 10:08 PM, said:

I just got back into the game and accidentally bought the Spitfire Longbow without verifying it's configuration thinking it had missile launchers... This is absolute trash as is. I emptied every single of the 180 rockets into one of the testing grounds light mechs and didn't even kill it. That should have evaporated it. Now I have to figure out how I can salvage it...

it may help to know that Rocket launchers have an min Range of 50 meters or so, i believe.

[feeWAIVER]

Rocket Launchers are a low weight option to put into missile slots that have mech doors, so you can get 20% DMG reduction in that component.

[Akhri Mala]

Wow 6 year necro