46 replies to this topic

[YueFei]

Darbbo, on 15 October 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

Your silly. I Lurm at 400 meters and am a mobile flanker as I Lurm but the job of a lurmer is to weaken the armor period.

Everyone's job is to "weaken the enemy's armor".

In addition to that, sharing some heat with your teammates helps keep them alive so they can keep helping you to "weaken the enemy's armor".

You're consistently not helping your team win. Which is fine, if you're OK with that... then keep doing what you're doing. But don't lie and try to convince others that what you do is going to help win games.

[Vellron2005]

Darbbo, on 14 October 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

Before combat:_____________________During combat:
Light's -- Scout _____________________Harasses Assault's
Mediums' -- Escort Assault's___________Protect Assault's
Heavy's -- Escort Assault's____________Provide support for Mediums and Assault's
Assault's -- Stay with main group_______At the front lines soaking up damage

This is not tabletop.. it doesn't work that way..

This is a game where a single piranha can take out 2-3 assaults on it's own and walk away..

This is a game where a slow assault that "soaks up damage" lasts for about 3 seconds.

This is a game where assaults get regularly left behind by everyone else on their team..

So no.. you may think you know how it should be, but it's not like that in practice.

In practice:

1) Weight classes have no meaning

2) Mechs are more distributed by roles - brawler, support, sniper, scout

3) Teamwork is scarce, mostly only happens in large groups

4) You can't expect you team to back you up cose' of the goodness of their hearts.. if they do back you up, it's mostly glory hogging, kill stealing and damage farming.

Edited by Vellron2005, 15 October 2018 - 11:24 PM.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Vellron2005, on 15 October 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

This is not tabletop.. it doesn't work that way..

This is a game where a single piranha can take out 2-3 assaults on it's own and walk away..

This is a game where a slow assault that "soaks up damage" lasts for about 3 seconds.

This is a game where assaults get regularly left behind by everyone else on their team..

So no.. you may think you know how it should be, but it's not like that in practice.

In practice:

1) Weight classes have no meaning

2) Mechs are more distributed by roles - brawler, support, sniper, scout

3) Teamwork is scarce, mostly only happens in large groups

4) You can't expect you team to back you up cose' of the goodness of their hearts.. if they do back you up, it's mostly glory hogging, kill stealing and damage farming.

Amen

[Darbbo]

Wow none of you read my post. I said the team waits for the lurmers to spend their lrms weakening the enemy and when the lrms are spent then the lurmer who now has only backup weapons moves in with the whole team.

[Black Ivan]

There is no role warfare in MWO. The game only mainly rewards damage and kills.

/close thread

[dr3dnought]

Darbbo, on 17 October 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Wow none of you read my post. I said the team waits for the lurmers to spend their lrms weakening the enemy and when the lrms are spent then the lurmer who now has only backup weapons moves in with the whole team.

And then you woke up

[Wil McCullough]

Darbbo, on 17 October 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Wow none of you read my post. I said the team waits for the lurmers to spend their lrms weakening the enemy and when the lrms are spent then the lurmer who now has only backup weapons moves in with the whole team.

Unless the lurmer is getting his own locks, that means there's a teammate in front spotting and getting more incoming fire cos armor isn't be shared by the lurmtato hiding at the back. Would you sacrifice half your mech or even get destroyed so the lurmer at the back can pop off one more salvo at 50% accuracy? Hell to the f no.

The enemy isn't going to be waiting for you to finish your lurms and start pushing. If you have a weak front line, they'll happily run you over and thank you for the free win.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

*sips coffee*
..lol


*think everything is said already, somebody just doesn't wanna hear and understand it*

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 18 October 2018 - 03:18 AM.

[Peiper]

We read your post, Darbbo. Your post is like posting on facebook with the statement: a Camero is better than a Mustang. In some situations, you may be right, but most maps don't have paved roads. You didn't put your theory into context. Without context, your statement was taken is: this is how it is. But every map and game mode has a different dynamic. We responded to you with our blanket/default response for all maps. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure. But your theory is situational, in a minority of situations.

I think of spotters going out way ahead of the group, narcing a bunch of mechs, then dying before the LRM'ers get into range, because the enemy has nothing else to shoot at except the brave fool who got too close.

When the team finally gets into range, it's down one or two scouts. Your theory gets scouts killed.

Edited by Peiper, 18 October 2018 - 04:25 PM.

[Darbbo]

Wil McCullough, on 18 October 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

Unless the lurmer is getting his own locks, that means there's a teammate in front spotting and getting more incoming fire cos armor isn't be shared by the lurmtato hiding at the back. Would you sacrifice half your mech or even get destroyed so the lurmer at the back can pop off one more salvo at 50% accuracy? Hell to the f no.

The enemy isn't going to be waiting for you to finish your lurms and start pushing. If you have a weak front line, they'll happily run you over and thank you for the free win.

Why would I be hiding in the back. I SAID THAT THE TEAM WAITS WITH THE LURMER TIL THE MISSILES ARE SPENT THEN THE WHOLE FRIGGIN TEAM MOVES INTO COMBAT. Boy you people are something else. Must be globeheads.

Peiper, on 18 October 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

We read your post, Darbbo. Your post is like posting on facebook with the statement: a Camero is better than a Mustang. In some situations, you may be right, but most maps don't have paved roads. You didn't put your theory into context. Without context, your statement was taken is: this is how it is. But every map and game mode has a different dynamic. We responded to you with our blanket/default response for all maps. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure. But your theory is situational, in a minority of situations.

I think of spotters going out way ahead of the group, narcing a bunch of mechs, then dying before the LRM'ers get into range, because the enemy has nothing else to shoot at except the brave fool who got too close.

When the team finally gets into range, it's down one or two scouts. Your theory gets scouts killed.

Well then you use your friggin brain and figure out the rest.

Edited by Darbbo, 18 October 2018 - 05:06 PM.

[Darbbo]

Peiper, on 18 October 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

We read your post, Darbbo. Your post is like posting on facebook with the statement: a Camero is better than a Mustang. In some situations, you may be right, but most maps don't have paved roads. You didn't put your theory into context. Without context, your statement was taken is: this is how it is. But every map and game mode has a different dynamic. We responded to you with our blanket/default response for all maps. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure. But your theory is situational, in a minority of situations.

I think of spotters going out way ahead of the group, narcing a bunch of mechs, then dying before the LRM'ers get into range, because the enemy has nothing else to shoot at except the brave fool who got too close.

When the team finally gets into range, it's down one or two scouts. Your theory gets scouts killed.

I don't rely on scouts. I get my own locks,,,,because I use missiles inside of 400 meters.

[Bombast]

Darbbo, on 17 October 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Wow none of you read my post. I said the team waits for the lurmers to spend their lrms weakening the enemy and when the lrms are spent then the lurmer who now has only backup weapons moves in with the whole team.

Oh, people read it. It's just that there's a protective mechanism in a good mechwarrior's head that edits terrible plans out of their memories, preserving their sanity.

[Wil McCullough]

Darbbo, on 18 October 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

Why would I be hiding in the back. I SAID THAT THE TEAM WAITS WITH THE LURMER TIL THE MISSILES ARE SPENT THEN THE WHOLE FRIGGIN TEAM MOVES INTO COMBAT. Boy you people are something else. Must be globeheads.




Well then you use your friggin brain and figure out the rest.

Why should the player who brings the most inefficient weapon system in the game be entitled to dictate self-gratifying, match-losing strategies? You are entitled to bring lurms but you're not entitled to your whole team bending over backwards to indulge your hard on for missiles. Wanna bring lurms? Work with your team.

If you're pushing with your team and staying within 400m of the enemy, why are you asking your team to wait till your missiles run out? You're giving the initiative to the enemy on a platter. Your team should be pushing or trying to get good trades. There is no scenario where babysitting your team lurmer is a winning strategy.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 18 October 2018 - 06:40 PM.

[InspectorG]

Khobai, on 15 October 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

this game doesnt have role warfare unfortunately

the role of all non-heavy mechs is just to be way worse heavies

I vaguely remember something about "4 pillars"...

Must have been a reference to the 4 legs that hold up the easel that the dartboard rests upon?

[Shadowomega1]

Lights have several roles to fill out. Scouting, Capping, Squirrel/Rabbit (Take your pick), Flanker, Rogue (Cause they do it from behind, yes a WoW reference), and Anti-Light Escort.

Mediums have Sniper, Anti-Light/Medium Escort, Flanker, Skirmisher

Heavies have Skirmisher, Fire Support

Assaults have Get in there and shoot till someone dies.

[Pain G0D]

Sooooo does my 100 ton assault lurm boat go to the front or stay in the back ? XD

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Pain G0D, on 18 October 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

Sooooo does my 100 ton assault lurm boat go to the front or stay in the back ? XD

best Place for it its the spawn Point XD to watch it and for a glorious 1:12 Fight

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 October 2018 - 11:06 PM.

[Lykaon]

Darbbo, on 17 October 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Wow none of you read my post. I said the team waits for the lurmers to spend their lrms weakening the enemy and when the lrms are spent then the lurmer who now has only backup weapons moves in with the whole team.

Not a sound plan since this grants the enemy with ample time to devise a counter strategy to the LRM bombardment.

I see where you get this lineof thinking but, LRMs are not present in enough numbers on an average quick play team to suit the role of ye olde timey artillery of the bygone days.

A far more flexable use of an LRM platform is mobile second line support ( standing a 100m or so back from the front line "tanks" and lobbing shots over their team mates. By doing so the LRM boat is not effected by blocked LOS or firelanes and can contribute damage directly.This places the LRM carrier in position to rotate forward and "share armor" while the front liners cool down or reposition due to sustaining severe damage. And that is why a LRM boat needs secondary weapons. (this method is similar to old timey grenadiers that lobb explosives into the enemy positions as the main body charges)

Or,optionally the LRMs can be used to suppress enemy movements while the rest of the team moves into an effective combat position. (this method is similar to WWII support machinegun uses where the object was area denial and funneling the enemy away from advantageous postions)

I see little advantage to tickling the enemy with LRMs for the first 5-10 minutes of the game burning off LRM ammo on hail Mary shots while the rest of the team sits on their hands waiting to be flanked.

Edited by Lykaon, 19 October 2018 - 03:47 PM.

[Darbbo]

When the enemy has time to close with a lrm boat the missiles become ineffective which is why you fire at long range.

[HenryFA]

Darbbo, on 20 October 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

When the enemy has time to close with a lrm boat the missiles become ineffective which is why you fire at long range.

People get close? Shoot them with your back up weapons.
Don't give me that "missile become ineffective" bs.
Your teammate will be able to protect you if you aren't standing 500m away at the back.

Keep in mind that if the enemy have ECM, "60%radar derp" and knowing how to use terrain avoid LRM fire,
unless you have a way to directly do damage w/o LRMs, you're basically a dead-weight.

If you still think that LRM boats should stay at the back, well, you're hopeless and you deserve get stuck in Tier 2 forever.