356 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 October 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

Used to play lights before clan cSPL got nerfed. I don't remember being all that sour about being fragile; that was part of the fun. Wait until the enemy is distracted, dive in and put damage into their back and bail before people start to turn and look at you, always have your escape route planned and all that. Never felt like I was at a disadvantage.

It's true enough that they get hard-countered by streaks, but it's so rare to see streakboats anywhere at the top levels of QP play. I would trade the option of that hard counter away in a heartbeat to cut the Piranhas Ballistic hardpoint count down to 8 : p .

And you must be joking about those soft counters. If you know how to make an approach in a light mech you have no right to complain about LRMs, or am I wrong?

Well, when my memory doesn't betray me the volumetric scaling happened after the SPL nerf but I could be wrong. So many of the heavier lights were in a better position than now. That and the agility of the heavier lights went down when they tried to establish baselines...but it is ok that several mediums blow lights out of the water in agility

I do not "complain" about softcounters. I just explained that if you get locked, you have to bail out. Ignoring that just for sake that your cry "Op PIR" is justified is just wrong. The grass is always greener on the other side.

And as for your "arguments"...heck, just go to one of the many older threads. I could regurgitate the same counter arguments again and again which were made then and there.

[Novakaine]

Bud Crue, on 15 October 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Let’s go with that. “It’s the only light mech not under powered”. Fine. Let’s take that as being pure truth.
It is an exceptional mech with the probably thee greatest potential to give incredible returns in exchange for fairly high risk play.
Yep. Now leave it alone.

Buff other lights if you must (look at the Spider 5V and it’s 80% cap quirk, now its just as balanced as the other lights according to PGI. Ha!), but there is no reason to nerf the Piranha (any of them) just because they over perform at their tonnage. Consider the Locusts. Does the 1E out perform the 3V? Should we nerf the 1E because of that? NO! HELL NO!

Let us enjoy an exceptional mech while we can. PGI will break it eventually. There is no reason to rush that process (For the record my own personal conspiracy theory view is that the ONLY reason the Piranha remains an over performer is because I have not purchased one...they seem to always nerf anything I purchase within three months of my finally giving in. Annihilator? Yeah, I finally bought one for Solaris. Sorry.).

Please purchase the piranha pack.
Assaults will thank you

Edited by Novakaine, 15 October 2018 - 07:28 PM.

[Prototelis]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 October 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

Well again it isn’t so much about the Piranhas being too good against assault mechs @Prototelis @Asym, it’s about the Piranha 1 being out of line with reguards to othe light mechs. I didn’t know it still had quirks! Jesus, the thing definately deserves the Kodiak 3 treatment. They should definately all get stripped away.

Laser focused and splat light-mediums eat the PIR for lunch.

The only lights that don't stand a chance are already super garbage and need buffs to have parity.

[Variant1]

of all the pirnahs to focus op the mg one is not even close to being overpowered. The mg fish needs to sacrifice alot of tonnage for ammo for those mgs. Its the laser piranash that are op, they dont need quirks they need nega quirks so those lazers run hot instead of being able to pump out 10 micro pulse and insta gib anything. the mg fish aint op so git gud scrub

[thievingmagpi]

Piranhas, mg, and laser are op.

Not substantially over the top op, but they're certainly overpowered.

It's also not the end of the world.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 15 October 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Variant1]

thievingmagpi, on 15 October 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

Piranhas, mg and laser are op.

Not substantially over the top op, but they're certainly overpowered.

It's also not the end of the world.

The piranah chasis weighs 1 ton, then you have to add an engine, then armor which bring the pod space to somewhere around 6-8 tons of pod space depending on engine. Now mg ammo is .5-1 ton in weight. If piranah goes full mg thats means 3 tons leaving 3-5 tons left for ammo and lasers. The mg pirnah if it goes full mg will either have to dedicate the rest of tonnage for ammo which it will run out or mix the 2 which it wont have alot of ammo to use. so no mg piranah aint op its laser. The laser fish doesnt run out of ammo, can be node boosted to be able to shoot off real fast and still have enough engine weight to go super fast. just add negative quirks and remove any quirks for the laser fish and where good

[thievingmagpi]

Variant1, on 15 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

The piranah chasis weighs 1 ton, then you have to add an engine, then armor which bring the pod space to somewhere around 6-8 tons of pod space depending on engine. Now mg ammo is .5-1 ton in weight. If piranah goes full mg thats means 3 tons leaving 3-5 tons left for ammo and lasers. The mg pirnah if it goes full mg will either have to dedicate the rest of tonnage for ammo which it will run out or mix the 2 which it wont have alot of ammo to use. so no mg piranah aint op its laser. The laser fish doesnt run out of ammo, can be node boosted to be able to shoot off real fast and still have enough engine weight to go super fast. just add negative quirks and remove any quirks for the laser fish and where good

maybe I should've oxford comma'd that

[Dragonporn]

Variant1, on 15 October 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

The piranah chasis weighs 1 ton, then you have to add an engine, then armor which bring the pod space to somewhere around 6-8 tons of pod space depending on engine. Now mg ammo is .5-1 ton in weight. If piranah goes full mg thats means 3 tons leaving 3-5 tons left for ammo and lasers. The mg pirnah if it goes full mg will either have to dedicate the rest of tonnage for ammo which it will run out or mix the 2 which it wont have alot of ammo to use. so no mg piranah aint op its laser. The laser fish doesnt run out of ammo, can be node boosted to be able to shoot off real fast and still have enough engine weight to go super fast. just add negative quirks and remove any quirks for the laser fish and where good

Not true. I run several mechs that boat MG/LMGs with 1-2 tons of ammo tops. For example my Shadowcat has 6 LMGs and only 1.5 tons of ammo with single skill node taken. I literally never run out of ammo, and I'm shooting a lot. If PIR pilot runs out of 2 tons of ammo, maybe he should stop shooting at nothing so much?... Currently PIR has more than enough tonnage to boat MG/LMGs, some small lasers and enough ammo to boot without sacrificing anything. Real advantage of MG boat before laser one is that you can never overheat, while even with micro-pulses you eventually will, plus we must consider maps temperature. MGs don't care about any of that, and are super efficient.

Hell, I earned my headshot last event with my Osiris with 2 MGs, I just opened up opponents' cockpit armor with lasers, and sprayed MG for like 0.2 secs which caused crits and killed it instantly. I crit out so much open components with my Shadowcat LMG boat, it's simply baffling...

[MechaBattler]

Other lights can't perform on that level. 20 tons and it's better than other lights? Problem is that other lights don't have weapons as good. And the IS answer to the Piranha, the Flea, can't do it as well because it's weapons weigh twice as much and it caps out at 8. If we were just talking about factional balance. You could buff the flea with 50% rate of fire quirk and that would make it's 8 MGs equal to 12.

But if we're talking across the board. Other lights don't have as good of a weapon option as the Piranha does. A buff to small pulse lasers, perhaps focused more on coolown instead of damage, would make other lights just as dangerous. But then the question becomes do we want all lights to be as dangerous as the Piranha? Or do we simply want to calm the Piranha's MG boating down a bit?

[Variant1]

Dragonporn, on 15 October 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Not true. I run several mechs that boat MG/LMGs with 1-2 tons of ammo tops. For example my Shadowcat has 6 LMGs and only 1.5 tons of ammo with single skill node taken. I literally never run out of ammo, and I'm shooting a lot. If PIR pilot runs out of 2 tons of ammo, maybe he should stop shooting at nothing so much?... Currently PIR has more than enough tonnage to boat MG/LMGs, some small lasers and enough ammo to boot without sacrificing anything. Real advantage of MG boat before laser one is that you can never overheat, while even with micro-pulses you eventually will, plus we must consider maps temperature. MGs don't care about any of that, and are super efficient.

Yeah mgs also dont do much damage, its .7 to .15 per bullet depending on type, a 10 micro pulse will do much more damage then 12 mg in the first burst. MGs require sustained fire and face time meaning easy to get cored, not to mention in order to crit components the armor needs to be stripped first.

Quote

Hell, I earned my headshot last event with my Osiris with 2 MGs, I just opened up opponents' cockpit armor with lasers, and sprayed MG for like 0.2 secs which caused crits and killed it instantly. I crit out so much open components with my Shadowcat LMG boat, it's simply baffling...

Unless that mech was standing still afk or shutdown i doubt that. The criting out componants is part of the mgs job considering its low damage output against armor so it makes sense it can strip weapons easy.

Edited by Variant1, 15 October 2018 - 10:49 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

MechaBattler, on 15 October 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

Other lights can't perform on that level. 20 tons and it's better than other lights? Problem is that other lights don't have weapons as good. And the IS answer to the Piranha, the Flea, can't do it as well because it's weapons weigh twice as much and it caps out at 8. If we were just talking about factional balance. You could buff the flea with 50% rate of fire quirk and that would make it's 8 MGs equal to 12.

But if we're talking across the board. Other lights don't have as good of a weapon option as the Piranha does. A buff to small pulse lasers, perhaps focused more on coolown instead of damage, would make other lights just as dangerous. But then the question becomes do we want all lights to be as dangerous as the Piranha? Or do we simply want to calm the Piranha's MG boating down a bit?

IS SPL, ML, and MPL are good weapons and it can easily shred clan lights (including the PIR) in a knife fight with ease, CSPL is still good enough to use not OP but still worth taking on the Cheetah at times.

And what lights truly need is more variants that can bring reasonable amount of firepower while being agile, and 35 tonners to get wolfhound levels of quirks or agility to rival the assassin and arctic wolf.

Also if you gonna take a wack at MG's just keep in mind it the only viable build for the Mist Lynx, so be careful on that road unless you want pgi to create some omnipods that will break the lynx in another way.

[kapusta11]

The best part is that 5x HSL + 10x ER uPulse variant is getting buffed tomorrow.

[Battlemaster56]

Oh goody gonna bring out the 10x upulse b@stard fish out for a couple of runs, hope get some nice juicy kills.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 15 October 2018 - 11:45 AM.

[Prototelis]

The huge alpha laser fish has even more drawbacks than the PIR-1.

I like the 10ermicro 3 small pulse build the best, but I maintain the flea does that **** better even with less alpha.

[Mystere]

Tiewolf, on 15 October 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

The piranha has 2 issues. First like El Bandito explained the piranha is too strong for 20 ton. And second it is a skill multiplier. In the hands of average pilots like me it is ok or even bad. But in the hands of good pilots it is game breaking. Pgi would be well advices to check the top percentile and not the average performance.

Skill is OP therefore nerf the piranha?

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 October 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

Oh pshaw boogeyman shmoogyman, it's not about what the piranha does in a void. It's an outlier among light mechs that sticks out like a sore thumb. It's asinine to pretend there isn't a glaring performance gap between it and other light mechs.

So let's make all other light mechs as capable as or as close to the Piranha.

Or should we relegate another Mech in the least used class to the dustbin?

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 October 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

Jesus, the thing definately deserves the Kodiak 3 treatment.

So to the dustbin then?

Edited by Mystere, 15 October 2018 - 12:07 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Snowbluff, on 15 October 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

What the holy ****?! That's the truedubs tax, ********!

Right now 2 and 3 can alpha around 45 3 times with just a little break between the 2nd and 3nd . If you removed the 15% it would take a little longer between the 2 and 3rd. This would bring it in little more balanced with oher lights but still be more powerful. If you pop a cool shot you can still kill about any mech in the game in about 6 seconds.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 15 October 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Bud Crue, on 15 October 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Let’s go with that. “It’s the only light mech not under powered”. Fine. Let’s take that as being pure truth.
It is an exceptional mech with the probably thee greatest potential to give incredible returns in exchange for fairly high risk play.
Yep. Now leave it alone.

Buff other lights if you must (look at the Spider 5V and it’s 80% cap quirk, now its just as balanced as the other lights according to PGI. Ha!), but there is no reason to nerf the Piranha (any of them) just because they over perform at their tonnage. Consider the Locusts. Does the 1E out perform the 3V? Should we nerf the 1E because of that? NO! HELL NO!

Let us enjoy an exceptional mech while we can. PGI will break it eventually. There is no reason to rush that process (For the record my own personal conspiracy theory view is that the ONLY reason the Piranha remains an over performer is because I have not purchased one...they seem to always nerf anything I purchase within three months of my finally giving in. Annihilator? Yeah, I finally bought one for Solaris. Sorry.).

Meh. To be honest with you I’d like to see other lights brought up to the standard of the laser Piranha, and the MG Piranha brought down to that standard. I do think its a little too good in a vaccum in addition to being way too good comparitively. You are right about one thing though, light mech Jesus is going to get nailed to the cross sooner or later. That’ll be a good day.

I want to say they should just fix MGs, but what are they going to do? Give MGs ghost heat? Not fair to punish every other mech in the game with damage nerfed MGs just because the Piranha exacerbates the boating of the weapon system.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Variant1, on 15 October 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

the mg fish aint op so git gud scrub

Am pretty good, other scrub, want to fight about it? We can be big boys and slug it out in the field can’t we? Rather than this ittle bittle ad hom non-sense?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Mystere, on 15 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

So to the dustbin then?

It’s nowhere near the dustbin even without its quirks. What’s the absolute worst that could happen?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Bush Hopper, on 15 October 2018 - 09:08 AM, said:

Well, when my memory doesn't betray me the volumetric scaling happened after the SPL nerf but I could be wrong. So many of the heavier lights were in a better position than now. That and the agility of the heavier lights went down when they tried to establish baselines...but it is ok that several mediums blow lights out of the water in agility

I do not "complain" about softcounters. I just explained that if you get locked, you have to bail out. Ignoring that just for sake that your cry "Op PIR" is justified is just wrong. The grass is always greener on the other side.

And as for your "arguments"...heck, just go to one of the many older threads. I could regurgitate the same counter arguments again and again which were made then and there.

cSPL nerf happened after volumetric scaling, but before Civil War.

Sheesh, people get salty when you start talking about how their toys ought not be as strong as they are. First reaction? Jump immedietly into personal insults and attributions about another persons character. “OP is crying,” “get gud scrub,” “OP arguments are ‘arguments’” etc. etc. yadda yadda.

Are we not grown men and women? Can we not have an impersonal argument about this without it devolving into this ad hominem nonsense?