39 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

I'm so in love with this mech, I cannot even find words to describe it, but I absolutely do not understand why this mech needs freaking C-XL385 without ability to swap it?!!! It already has built-in MASC, which provides amazing mobility. Black Lanner being Medium doesn't require mobility of fastest Light, since it has bigger profile anyway. C-XL350 (or smaller) would be all it needs, while MASC would provide an edge to compensate fully.

If there would be other roles or jobs for mechs besides killing each other, it would make sense to have scout type of mech. But with existing loadout, you can either have acceptable firepower with no cooling at all, or literally no firepower with cooling. Why, PGI?

I still drop on this mech, but I have to struggle SO MUCH to make it work every single time...

I know BKL isn't the only mech which needs looking into, but they need to start somewhere, and fix for thsi particular mech is very easy. Please PGI, decrease engine size or let us swap it?... Such a big engine for low tonnage Medium simply feels unfair no matter how you looking at it.

What do you folks think about this mech? Do you agree that it needs smaller engine?

[Nightbird]

lore

[FLG 01]

Dragonporn, on 15 October 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

What do you folks think about this mech? Do you agree that it needs smaller engine?

The Black Lanner is one of the overly specialized Mechs which is quite useful in TT in the hands of an experienced player, but it is borderline useless in MWO.

I still don't know what the people asking for that Mech were thinking... They wanted a bad Mech, and they succeeded as they got a bad Mech despite all the warnings from more reasonable people in the community. Instead of changing the rules, just think about what Mech you really want in MWO.

[Daurock]

Omni-Mech is Omni-Mech. Part of that agility it has is due to the devs balancing around it having that huge engine in it. Without it, it'd almost certainly take a huge hit on the agility/armor levels, lest it become an OP mech. You can always pickup a stormcrow and go to town, if you're feeling more traditional. Lots of good loadouts to be had with that mech, and 100kph is still nothing to scoff at speed wise.

That being said, if you're looking for a bLanner with a removable engine, be ready for the Upcoming Vapor eagle. That one is a battlemech, which means you should be able to drop in that 350 engine in without issue.

Edited by Daurock, 15 October 2018 - 10:04 AM.

[Dragonporn]

Nightbird, on 15 October 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

lore

Not so relevant. World will not end if they bend rules a little for gameplay purposes. MWO doesn't follow all TT rules by the book from what I can gather anyway, it is simply impossible for the game of such format. And can you guys say that every single mech model presented by PGI is 100% accurate to lore?

Daurock, on 15 October 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

Omni-Mech is Omni-Mech. Part of that agility it has is due to the devs balancing around it having that huge engine in it. Without it, it'd almost certainly take a huge hit on the agility/armor levels, lest it become an OP mech. You can always pickup a stormcrow and go to town, if you're feeling more traditional. Lots of good loadouts to be had with that mech, and 100kph is still nothing to scoff at speed wise.

That being said, if you're looking for a bLanner with a removable engine, be ready for the Upcoming Vapor eagle. That one is a battlemech, which means you should be able to drop in that 350 engine in without issue.

You seriously think that C-XL 350 f.e. can have such a strong hit of the mech survivability? And if they can't let us have them swap, I'd be okay with it being locked. Still, folks will be able to take more arms and systems on, which would help immensely.

Edited by Dragonporn, 15 October 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[Nightbird]

Can say 100% PGI will not change stock engine for an omnimech.

[MechaBattler]

They bend a lot on lore stuff. But engine swapping on Omni's isn't one of them. It's just a case of the mech being designed around the idea of being incredibly fast. Frankly good on them for not trying to change that!

I do like janky mechs, especially when they're considered bad. I might have to subject myself to the Black Lanner.

[Daurock]

Dragonporn, on 15 October 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

You seriously think that C-XL 350 f.e. can have such a strong hit of the mech survivability?

Yes. Yes i do.

They balance that way sometimes, especially on clan mechs. If you look at the rest of the lineup, the only ones with real armor quirks, and/or good to great agility for the tonnage are either massively over-engined, (Lanner, Linebacker, Gargoyle, Ferret) and/or have such an poor hardpoint locations and gemoetry so as to make it average, even with those kinds of armor quirks. (Onion, Highlander.) Those with a comfortable engine (300-350) and/or are capable of a reasonable loadout are usually saddled with average-at-best armor and agility.


A lanner with a 325 to 350 engine wouldn't pass either of those tests, so if its engine were put to a more comfortable level, it'd also get saddled with standard clan agility and armor for the tonnage (I.E. average or bad, like the stormcrow)

Edited by Daurock, 15 October 2018 - 10:43 AM.

[Spheroid]

The Vapor Eagle hero will be a 55 tonner with unlockable engine and MASC. However the hardpoints may not be to your liking.

In canon your selection of MASC mechs at this weight is quite limited. Wishing will not alter that fact.

[Pariah Devalis]

We tried to warn the community. We told them, "a 55 ton mech with 12 tons of pod space is not gonna be good..." and they resisted. They clamored for it. So they got what they asked for.

Black Lanners are only decent for anti-light or anti-low-end-medium setups as long as they grab streaks and MG. Otherwise, I've seen them used to incredibly limited success. We're not talking just "non-optimal," here. The mech has so many things working against it, it still blows my mind people actually wanted it in the game.

PGI occasionally flexes the lore, but they don't mess with component, equipment, and weapon weights and slots. If they did, the entire mech won't work out right. Won't be able to be built correctly, either over or under tonnage. It just isn't worthwhile to them - or us - to go down that rabbit hole.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 15 October 2018 - 11:11 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 October 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

We tried to warn the community. We told them, "a 55 ton mech with 12 tons of pod space is not gonna be good..." and they resisted. They clamored for it. So they got what they asked for.

Black Lanners are only decent for anti-light or anti-low-end-medium setups as long as they grab streaks and MG. Otherwise, I've seen them used to incredibly limited success. We're not talking just "non-optimal," here. The mech has so many things working against it, it still blows my mind people actually wanted it in the game.

PGI occasionally flexes the lore, but they don't mess with component, equipment, and weapon weights and slots. If they did, the entire mech won't work out right. Won't be able to be built correctly, either over or under tonnage. It just isn't worthwhile to them - or us - to go down that rabbit hole.

I think most people don't give a damn bout meta most of the time, especially for clans since it kinda hard to get a bad mech from their lineup. And beside nostalgia, most bought for looks and for fun.

[FLG 01]

Battlemaster56, on 15 October 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

I think most people don't give a damn bout meta most of the time, especially for clans since it kinda hard to get a bad mech from their lineup. And beside nostalgia, most bought for looks and for fun.

Sorry to be blunt, but considering the near extinction of the Lanner population, I don't think many people are having fun with it right now...

[Pariah Devalis]

Battlemaster56, on 15 October 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

I think most people don't give a damn bout meta most of the time, especially for clans since it kinda hard to get a bad mech from their lineup. And beside nostalgia, most bought for looks and for fun.

FLG 01, on 15 October 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

Sorry to be blunt, but considering the near extinction of the Lanner population, I don't think many people are having fun with it right now...

Exactly. There is little fun if your mech is constantly being stepped on.

Fun mech? Shadow Cat. Fast, jumpy, has MASC, and is also a credible threat. Spot the major difference. If a mech isn't a credible threat in MWO, which is essentially an arena shooter, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Jackal Noble]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 October 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

We tried to warn the community. We told them, "a 55 ton mech with 12 tons of pod space is not gonna be good..." and they resisted. They clamored for it. So they got what they asked for.

Black Lanners are only decent for anti-light or anti-low-end-medium setups as long as they grab streaks and MG. Otherwise, I've seen them used to incredibly limited success. We're not talking just "non-optimal," here. The mech has so many things working against it, it still blows my mind people actually wanted it in the game.

PGI occasionally flexes the lore, but they don't mess with component, equipment, and weapon weights and slots. If they did, the entire mech won't work out right. Won't be able to be built correctly, either over or under tonnage. It just isn't worthwhile to them - or us - to go down that rabbit hole.

I figured it out. The Vapes was a sure success. Save that for when the chips are down. Meanwhile use the Blanner to mop up any extra suckers.

[KodiakGW]

I’d be happy if they just allowed the removal of MASC. Doesn’t need both. Of course, allowing a smaller engine would be preferable. But, as was always said, that will never happen.

[Battlemaster56]

FLG 01, on 15 October 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

Sorry to be blunt, but considering the near extinction of the Lanner population, I don't think many people are having fun with it right now...

Why be so sorry bout being blunt it not like I care or anything. Also considering the near extinction of the entire medium class as whole save for very few speaks even further how bad class as a whole have it right now.

Pariah Devalis, on 15 October 2018 - 11:59 AM, said:

Exactly. There is little fun if your mech is constantly being stepped on.

Fun mech? Shadow Cat. Fast, jumpy, has MASC, and is also a credible threat. Spot the major difference. If a mech isn't a credible threat in MWO, which is essentially an arena shooter, you're gonna have a bad time.

Well that a you and another player problem not mine or whoever else fine fun with the Lanner.
Shadow Cat a credible threat just a mere annoyance most of the time, and another easy kill ( this is from my experience dealing with them so take it with a grain of salt), and why bother with that mech when there better strikers out there like the Assassin and Arctic Wolf. Real credible threats in this are the heavies and assaults that capable of bringing enough fire power while not to hampered down, and the few mediums and lights that prove themselves to be dangerous on the field.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Making the MASC not hard-locked is something they might do. Might. They unlocked the flamer in the head of the Adder after some time.

I picked up a blanner but I just can't figure out how to build it to have any kind of legit firepower (with reasonable cooling) compared to any of my other 55 tonners, and so it collects dust in the hanger.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

It’s (at a minimum) a fairly good mech for Scouting (FW mode)....and that’s about it. So, at least it has a single spot where it can do pretty well in MWO.....same can’t be said for other mechs that are nearly useless across the board.

[50 50]

To me the Clan Omnimechs seem to come in a couple of specific varieties.
Mechs like the Black Lanner fit into that category of go faster than normal for their weight.
It's in there with mechs like the Executioner, Gargoyle and Linebacker.
With great speed comes stuff all tonnage for weaponry.
These mechs seem to try and fit into a different role or weight class.

Of course there are also mechs on the other side of that coin that seem to go slower but carry a large payload.

Just the way it is really and making the mechs work in the different maps and modes is one of the challenges of the game and unfortunately some of these maps and modes don't make it easy for other roles to come to the fore.

Edited by 50 50, 15 October 2018 - 01:44 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Not releasing mech because according to lore it is unfit for MWO is pretty silly if you ask me. This is a video game after all, some things must be tweaked to put in line with everything else for balance and fun purposes. Black Lanner is a stunning mech. No matter how bad it is, I won't give up dropping in it, as many other people who like it as I am, surely. Just hope PGI will reevaluate it's strengths and weaknesses one day.

If omni must not be able to swap engines, ok, no problem, just give it smaller one and lock it, or remove MASC. Having both is just an overkill by long stretch.

Daurock, on 15 October 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

Yes. Yes i do.

They balance that way sometimes, especially on clan mechs. If you look at the rest of the lineup, the only ones with real armor quirks, and/or good to great agility for the tonnage are either massively over-engined, (Lanner, Linebacker, Gargoyle, Ferret) and/or have such an poor hardpoint locations and gemoetry so as to make it average, even with those kinds of armor quirks. (Onion, Highlander.) Those with a comfortable engine (300-350) and/or are capable of a reasonable loadout are usually saddled with average-at-best armor and agility.


A lanner with a 325 to 350 engine wouldn't pass either of those tests, so if its engine were put to a more comfortable level, it'd also get saddled with standard clan agility and armor for the tonnage (I.E. average or bad, like the stormcrow)

I really don't think if they pack smaller engine they must nerf armor and agility will be already nerfed. In any case, it is already clan mech, which means it is shreded to pieces by anything if you get hit. I do not even have any Survival tree skills on it, because it is pointless. Same with Shadowcat f.e., same with few other Clan mechs. I don't think survivability of thsi mech can be nerfed even harder, well, unless they really want it to die from single AC/2 round or something...

What I don't understand is why anyone would think this mech needs power of 385 engine, while it has MASC, which gives you best possible agility in the game, with instant accel already.10 KPH +/- wouldn't make any difference in that case. This mech really pushes speed on unnecessary high level sacrificing very vital utilities for that.

Not sure about Gargoyle, didn't heard many complaints about it anyway, but on LBK and Ferret, well... these mechs are darn good, and have no problems with hardpoints or loadouts by my standards. Why Lanner should be in such a bad light in comparison? Shadowcat absolutely puts it in the dirt while being literally in the same league.

I still don't think Lanner is a bad mech all-in-all. I have more success in it than in several other Clan mechs, but definitely needs some tweaking just to be put on par to compete in its league.