78 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

I am sure you will figure the meaning out. Are you not a clever and high functioning individual? If not ask specific points of clarification.

[K O Z A K]

I think you'll find more people are interested in playing the game than trying to prove some vague point to PGI (who we know by now don't give a f***)

I don't have very much time to play anymore, and whatever time I can dedicate to the game I want to be dropping and shooting robots, not looking at the spinning wheel or lobby timer. Same goes for rewards, you'll find not many people are as interested anymore in grinding a faction for 3 months to get the equivalent of $1 worth of mechbay (though some are)

Hence people would rather play merc or have alt loyalist accounts to insta switch to actually play the game

[Tiewolf]

Hazeclaw, on 22 October 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

me: genuinely trying to help someone play their IS mechs better based on my experiences and the problem they presented

you: whaaaa, CLAM OP, whaaaa

I am not whaaaa, CLAM OP,whaaaa. Honestly I field clan mechs very often. At least when i want some nice experience after getting frustrated with leveling all my subpar mechs. I personally even think that tech is not that important teamwork>skill>map-mech-loadout fit>tech base. But if the other variables are close or not present then tech base is a crucial factor.

Sorry if i disagree but i don`t think that you are helping anybody by stating that IS laservomit is on par with Clan laservomit or comparing apples and oranges. Maybe you played solely the IS unicorns in the stable and the subpar clan mechs on the other side that you couldn`t experience the difference yourself. Even your statement with better heat/damage for IS tech is only true when you ignore the better cooling of clan tech. Torso twisting to mitigate damage is simply not viable for many mechs with bad hitboxes and low agility. Advocating that IS tech is like playing a ballerina compared to clan tech is not education but misinformation.

Edited by Tiewolf, 22 October 2018 - 12:16 PM.

[K O Z A K]

I did not state that IS laservomit is on par with clan laservomit. I generally like to play good mechs on both sides, and there are plenty of both good and bad mechs on both sides, and I try to abuse the strengths and weaknesses of the tech I'm using and what the enemy uses, generally the results are good. When I play laser grasshoppers with jjs it feels like a ballerina compared to all clan laservomit mechs, and it has some of the best hitboxes for arm shielding. Now you know what mechs can't really use torso twisting to mitigate damage that well? Most clan laservomit heavies that have large CT profiles from the side, poor arm shields and inferior torso twist speed/yaw angle and have longer burn duration.

But it's much easier to complain about the weaknesses of a loadout than to learn how to use it to its maximum potential

[Eisenhorne]

Tiewolf, on 22 October 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Sorry if i disagree but i don`t think that you are helping anybody by stating that IS laservomit is on par with Clan laservomit or comparing apples and oranges. Maybe you played solely the IS unicorns in the stable and the subpar clan mechs on the other side that you couldn`t experience the difference yourself.

The Top Dog I feel holds up nicely compared to hellbringers.

https://mech.nav-alp...cae46_HBR-PRIME

vs

https://mech.nav-alp...e3d958_TDR-5S-T

Granted, it's a hero mech, but I'd rather have the Top Dog normally. Lower alpha heat on the Top Dog means I can alpha strike twice back to back without a coolshot, 3 times if I cool shot, and 4 times if I am willing to eat some structure damage, which isn't bad given it's hefty survival quirks.

[TWIAFU]

Hazeclaw, on 22 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

I try to abuse the strengths and weaknesses of the tech I'm using and what the enemy uses, generally the results are good.

But it's much easier to complain about the weaknesses of a loadout than to learn how to use it to its maximum potential

Most pilots are far to dim witted to comprehend such things.

[OmniFail]

Armored Yokai, on 20 October 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

I only need to hide and find a spot to spend 62 damage and let my team do the tanking

If you had been talking about LRM's peeps would have fell on you like wolves. But since you are talking about lasers and Hellbringers its OK to use your team as meat shields.

Edited by OmniFail, 22 October 2018 - 05:37 PM.

[El Bandito]

Eisenhorne, on 22 October 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

The Top Dog I feel holds up nicely compared to hellbringers.

https://mech.nav-alp...cae46_HBR-PRIME

vs

https://mech.nav-alp...e3d958_TDR-5S-T

Granted, it's a hero mech, but I'd rather have the Top Dog normally. Lower alpha heat on the Top Dog means I can alpha strike twice back to back without a coolshot, 3 times if I cool shot, and 4 times if I am willing to eat some structure damage, which isn't bad given it's hefty survival quirks.

Depends on the range. On maps such as HPG I prefer the Top Dog, while on maps such as Frozen I prefer the Hellbringer.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 October 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[K O Z A K]

El Bandito, on 23 October 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

Depends on the range. On maps such as HPG I prefer the Top Dog, while on maps such as Frozen I prefer the Hellbringer.

that sounds dangerously close to asymmetrical balance

[El Bandito]

Hazeclaw, on 23 October 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

that sounds dangerously close to asymmetrical balance

Not even remotely. Top Dog is a hero mech that has given generous amount of quirks and luckily not taken back. The faction techs themselves are not balanced at all. Top Dog would not hold a candle to the Hellbringer if it did not have any quirks.

That's why I keep saying to balance the base tech, cause without base tech balance, PGI is gonna have to keep nerfing Clan weapons and mechs, all the while hitting and missing the quirk lottery for the IS. With quirks being such an unreliable crutch, IS is never gonna have a permanent contender against the Clans, especially post its C-Bill release.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 October 2018 - 11:03 AM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 23 October 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Not even remotely. Top Dog is a hero mech that has given generous amount of quirks and luckily not taken back. The faction techs themselves are not balanced at all. Top Dog would not hold a candle to the Hellbringer if it did not have any quirks.

Now that you mention it, it is certainly quite strange how the hero Thunderbolt has stronger quirks than the C-Bill Thunderbolts in addition to having better hardpoints. Definitely not suspicious at all...

[K O Z A K]

FupDup, on 23 October 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

Now that you mention it, it is certainly quite strange how the hero Thunderbolt has stronger quirks than the C-Bill Thunderbolts in addition to having better hardpoints. Definitely not suspicious at all...

Its not like there are any other mc mechs that are best in chassis (deathstrike, virago, ultrav, iv4, slepnir, phaket, k9, etc)

@bandito, I never understood the argument "if we didnt have quirks...". We do, they're here, we play with quirks, they're as much part of the game as every other balancing factor

[El Bandito]

Hazeclaw, on 23 October 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

Its not like there are any other mc mechs that are best in chassis (deathstrike, virago, ultrav, iv4, slepnir, phaket, k9, etc)

@bandito, I never understood the argument "if we didnt have quirks...". We do, they're here, we play with quirks, they're as much part of the game as every other balancing factor

And quirks are not doing their job well--at least under PGI's management--which is why base tech balance is needed. I never said to get rid of quirks, that's you putting words in my mouth. I said IS should not rely on quirks are crutches, and base tech balance will help towards that goal.

IS and Clan can only be truly balanced if quirkless meta IS mechs can compete against meta Clan mechs. Give minor quirks to differentiate identical variants, and give major quirks to underperformers of both sides. One doesn't need to make everything identical to achieve that, provided they got some brains.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 October 2018 - 11:25 AM.

[K O Z A K]

I never said you said that I just dont understand why people somehow regard quirks as a less important balancing factor. They can drastically change how a mech performs in game, some are like having a built in tcomp, or extra armour or heatsinks at no tonnage cost. They make many IS mechs very good and balanced when facing clan

[Ilfi]

In my personal experience, mega-quirked IS Ballistic boats tend to edge out over Clan laser vomit. Between quad LBX10, twin Heavy Gauss with MPLs, twin RAC5s with bonus weapons or the various brawler options, IS has the armor, quirks and weapon behavior to more than handle the MechLab handicaps. Both sides have advantages and good options.

Even after the adjustments, I still enjoy my Bushwacker and Annihilator more than my Hellbringer or Marauder IIC, simply because they offer a play style that is not present on the Clan side (tanky + highest possible DPS). I will grant you that Clan BattleMechs tend to be the most consistently good platforms -- but when you play this game seriously, you aren't playing the average Mech; you are playing the best Mech for the job. That's your Piranha, your Wolfhound, your Huntsman, your Bushwacker, your Hellbringer, your Warhammer, your Deathstrike, your Sleipnir. They are different experiences with different specialties.

[Tiewolf]

Hazeclaw, on 22 October 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

But it's much easier to complain about the weaknesses of a loadout than to learn how to use it to its maximum potential

That is true and most players complain when the mechs they use do not match with their playstyle rather then adapting there playstyle to the strenths and weaknesses of that mech.

The Top Dog is one of these unicorns in the IS stable I was talking about. The thing is, like El Bandito allready expained, that clantech is usable by every clan mech. The IS quirks that disguise the tech gap are only given to specific mechvariants and are a vitctim of the pgi dartboard game. And even with the quirks IS tech is most of the time only comparable in certain envoironments/situations (maps) where the clan tech advantages have no significant effect.

Pgi failed to balance asymetrical, be it by risk-reward, resource size, objectives and all the possible solutions that work in other cases. Thats sad, because I believe that it is possible. But pgi went the quirk balance way to equal the lore tech differences. This aproach has a lot of immanent consequences and problems that need constant tweaking. I don`t want to get into the details of these consequences but my point is, that in this process it is not helpfull to claim that IS=Clan when the differences are obvious.

[El Bandito]

Hazeclaw, on 23 October 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

I never said you said that I just dont understand why people somehow regard quirks as a less important balancing factor. They can drastically change how a mech performs in game, some are like having a built in tcomp, or extra armour or heatsinks at no tonnage cost. They make many IS mechs very good and balanced when facing clan

Way too situational, and way too reliant on dart board balancing. I woulda been fine with quirks if PGI proved itself to be actually competent with it, but no, it is just disappointment after another for years.

[K O Z A K]

You guys say that as if everything else isn't reliant on dart board balancing. I mean they dart boarded entire playstyles straight out of the game and it had nothing to do with quirks

[El Bandito]

Hazeclaw, on 24 October 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

You guys say that as if everything else isn't reliant on dart board balancing. I mean they dart boarded entire playstyles straight out of the game and it had nothing to do with quirks

Adding more dart board randomness is certainly not gonna help. Which is why ending Inner Sphere's quirk reliance is a good first step towards a semblance of balance and order. Now if only PGI can see that.