270 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

[justcallme A S H]

Either my post got (oddly reported and removed) or I'm tripping and never posted...

Alas I'll just eat the popcorn too and keep solo or small 4man group dropping like I have for the majority of the event this far. Get one side done in a single drop, easy mode.

[Yondu Udonta]

12man too ez during events man, not enough food to go around

[Jables McBarty]

Interesting thread, hoping it isn't too off the rails anymore...

S O L A I S, on 07 November 2018 - 01:59 AM, said:

As a player who is on one of the top tier Units in CW I can appreciate what you are saying. Most of the players I play with who dominate CW have hundreds and hundreds of millions of cbills into the billions even is not uncommon. For example I have 1.7 billion. Cbills would never really be a way to incentivize players.

Loyalty points and such may work for some who would wish to expedite farming free mechbays and mc from faction reputation. I think however seeing how many folks I play with who will play/endure some Solaris with the primary goal to get the valuable GXP that makes skilling out new mechs less painful for some (not me personally the skill tree drop made a huge chasm between vets and new players which I won't devolve into).

Incentives basically should not be cbill based in my opinion either, especially not for veterans. However if a skilled player had the option to run a lighter deck and for doing so it paid off by some of those incentives that reduce grind, that carrot would be something worth grabbing for.

Oh and last thing, never underestimate the drive that the better players/groups have simply to just win games. For many that W is the most important thing and far, far more important than any rewards or cbills. I say this as someone with over a thousand games played on the leaderboard and WLR over 10. Just being one of the most difficult opponents around is an incredible reward pride wise and probably ego more than it should. So, from what Nightbird said about PGI's no dynamic tonnage, this incentive idea has to have to real weight for people to risk putting their pride on the line as well.

And if we are going down this route would it not be possible to not penalize the new players in any way if they land in a premade? Just how hero and champion mechs change certain bonuses in the rewards screen I would hope this sort of system could incentivize/penalize the guys in the group while the pugs get full pay for the 500 damage that they do at a minimum. If not I would expect some to simply disco, suck the penalty and try in get into a match they can participate more in and get paid.

Question on this - Earnings incentives aside, would the "Play for the W" sorts be interested in downing tonnage for bragging rights? At present, there is no way to know who your opposition will be until you actually drop. Even if it is couched in terms of earnings bonuses and penalties, if an elite group with no shortage of Cbills gets a -50% or -80% cbill notice, they'll at least know they are going up against an easy team and can choose to under-ton or run troll builds to up the ante.

IDK, I'm not that sort of person. Would it work in that direction as well?

Hazeclaw, on 07 November 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

You know what would be even better handicap while helping FP queue? Stop rushing objectives.

As a PUG who Pugs, IDK if that'll solve the population problem--insofar as getting more PUGs to join goes. I feel like I hear more complaints from fellow pugs when the Reds roll us on the first wave or two but proceed to farm us rather than finish the game. It's quite humiliating.

If you are talking from a group perspective, then I am not qualified to comment

[K O Z A K]

Jables McBarty, on 08 November 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

As a PUG who Pugs, IDK if that'll solve the population problem--insofar as getting more PUGs to join goes. I feel like I hear more complaints from fellow pugs when the Reds roll us on the first wave or two but proceed to farm us rather than finish the game. It's quite humiliating.

If you are talking from a group perspective, then I am not qualified to comment

dropships are pretty deadly these days

personally I find it really annoying when I drop solo or in a small group on defense or incursion, and large groups just run straight past us knowing the focus fire just won't be there to stop their armour ball and kill the gens

this encourages people to group up into larger groups with friends you can rely on so we have the effective focus fire to bring down these gen rushers before they kill the gens

[Nightbird]

refund sent:

Hello,

I'd like to request a refund of my Vapor Eagle collectors pack pre-order.

The reason I am requesting a refund is not due to the mech itself, I think the team did an outstanding job on the mech.

I am requesting a refund because of unhappiness over the current state of Faction Play, and disagreement on the future direction of Faction Play. I believe it is impossible to create balanced teams to face each other in FP via Match Maker as is proposed, and I believe PGI understands that poor matches from unbalanced teams cause players to leave MWO. I believe the only viable course is to create fun matches even when teams of unequal skill levels meet. I described one possible approach in this thread: https://mwomercs.com...n-in-one-month/ . I am not demanding this particular solution be implemented. As long as a viable solution is promised, I will reconsider this and future refunds.

Sincerely,

Edited by Nightbird, 09 November 2018 - 08:33 AM.

[Black Ivan]

I'm curious if you get the refund

[justcallme A S H]

Black Ivan, on 08 November 2018 - 11:32 PM, said:

I'm curious if you get the refund

100% you will. Many a pack has been refunded by people before.

[Nightbird]

You can always refund a pack before you receive it. Canadian law.

[Davegt27]

Nightbird, on 08 November 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

refund sent:

Hello,

I'd like to request a refund of my Vapor Eagle collectors pack pre-order.

The reason I am requesting a refund is not due to the mech itself, I think the team did an outstanding job on the mech.

I am requesting a refund because of unhappiness over the current state of Faction Play, and disagreement on the future direction of Faction Play. I believe it is impossible to create balanced teams to face each other in FP via Match Maker as is proposed, and I believe PGI understands that poor matches from unbalanced teams cause players to leave MWO. I believe the only viable course is to create fun matches even when teams of unequal skill levels meet. I described one possible approach in this thread: https://mwomercs.com...n-in-one-month/ . I am not demanding this particular solution be implemented. As long as a viable solution is promised, I will reconsider this and future refunds.

Sincerely,

the link does not work??

[Nightbird]

Davegt27, on 09 November 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

the link does not work??

Copy and paste issue from chrome, it links to this thread. I edited the post above.

[Nightbird]

Already received the nice standard reply, I don't expect a reaction soon or at all. I'm looking forward to the Hatamoto-chi and Warhammer IIC but a hit in the wallet is the only way to hope for a reply with time.

Greetings,

Thank you for your feedback. I will pass it on to the right folks in the house. I've gone ahead removed the pre-order from your account and issued the refund. Please allow up to 10 business days for the refund to process.
If you have any other issues or inquiries, please feel free to let us know and we'll make sure to get back to you as soon as possible.
Regards,

[Yondu Udonta]

Jables McBarty, on 08 November 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

As a PUG who Pugs, IDK if that'll solve the population problem--insofar as getting more PUGs to join goes. I feel like I hear more complaints from fellow pugs when the Reds roll us on the first wave or two but proceed to farm us rather than finish the game. It's quite humiliating.

There's two sides to this, some people mind the humiliation, some people don't mind it as they get to deal more damage which equates to more c-bills. From my experience I think that most pugs would rather maximize their c-bills earnings.

[Nightbird]

To sum it up, the idea presented here makes the final match score closer when two teams are unequally skilled.

The stronger team will still win, and earn the same cbills. The losing team will earn more cbills.

The 'winners' of this idea are people who enjoy closer matches, win or lose, and those who like earning cbills, XP, LP, as everyone gets more of it on average.

The only 'losers' of the idea are those who do not give up tonnage even while being on a much stronger team. People who want to stomp pugs as hard as possible. People who care about stats, and want to minimize deaths.

Edited by Nightbird, 11 November 2018 - 01:07 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Well I solo / duo dropped last night in FP.

Good times were had.

This post is in memory of Carl Vickers, he was nice enough to talk some turkey with me for 45mins last night, we had fun reliving old times while running a 2-man and steamrolling the enemy pre-made into the ground.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 11 November 2018 - 01:39 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Nightbird, on 11 November 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

To sum it up, the idea presented here makes the final match score closer when two teams are unequally skilled.

The stronger team will still win, and earn the same cbills. The losing team will earn more cbills.

The 'winners' of this idea are people who enjoy closer matches, win or lose, and those who like earning cbills, XP, LP, as everyone gets more of it on average.

The only 'losers' of the idea are those who do not give up tonnage even while being on a much stronger team. People who want to stomp pugs as hard as possible. People who care about stats, and want to minimize deaths.

To sum it up - this is a token jesture suggestion.

Dropping light, so what? A good team will still be a good team even if the good team if 50T down per player.

The first wave in such match ups is and always will be the most important. So drop big early and if you can manage a 20-12 which is basically game over as you've more than made up that 50T. How often does a good team even use 3rd/4th wave mechs? Some 100T, on average.

The actual issue is enjoyment/fun. Getting rolled sideways is not fun, never has been. It is a very hard issue to address and this suggestion does not really achieve this at all. It is

[Nightbird]

justcallme A S H, on 12 November 2018 - 06:09 AM, said:

To sum it up - this is a token jesture suggestion.

Dropping light, so what? A good team will still be a good team even if the good team if 50T down per player.

The first wave in such match ups is and always will be the most important. So drop big early and if you can manage a 20-12 which is basically game over as you've more than made up that 50T. How often does a good team even use 3rd/4th wave mechs? Some 100T, on average.

The actual issue is enjoyment/fun. Getting rolled sideways is not fun, never has been. It is a very hard issue to address and this suggestion does not really achieve this at all. It is

100T light for the good teams you're thinking of Ash. I gave some examples of a sliding scale.

I'd go for a larger penalty but PGI said no changes to drop deck rules (i.e. change minimum mechs to 3 and lower minimum tonnage)

If you front load 100 tons with 3 20 ton lights to follow, bad things will happen to you after that initial 20-12 wave.

[Nightbird]

P.S. You can test how tough the penalty is today, if you can convince your group to ton down. It's hard though, since you don't know who you're going the get, which is the whole point. People would be more willing if they know the other team is weak, but this has to be coded into the game.

[MischiefSC]

Nightbird, on 09 November 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

Already received the nice standard reply, I don't expect a reaction soon or at all. I'm looking forward to the Hatamoto-chi and Warhammer IIC but a hit in the wallet is the only way to hope for a reply with time.

Greetings,

Thank you for your feedback. I will pass it on to the right folks in the house. I've gone ahead removed the pre-order from your account and issued the refund. Please allow up to 10 business days for the refund to process.
If you have any other issues or inquiries, please feel free to let us know and we'll make sure to get back to you as soon as possible.
Regards,

I want to say that PGI support has always been awesome for me. Every single time. Over the years I've refunded some stuff and had some technical issues and they were always quick, polite, professional and efficient. I give them full marks.

[MischiefSC]

Nightbird, on 11 November 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

To sum it up, the idea presented here makes the final match score closer when two teams are unequally skilled.

The stronger team will still win, and earn the same cbills. The losing team will earn more cbills.

The 'winners' of this idea are people who enjoy closer matches, win or lose, and those who like earning cbills, XP, LP, as everyone gets more of it on average.

The only 'losers' of the idea are those who do not give up tonnage even while being on a much stronger team. People who want to stomp pugs as hard as possible. People who care about stats, and want to minimize deaths.

I also want to reiterate that this idea has potential benefit and use beyond just FW. You create a framework for balancing teams using tonnage restriction and sliding scale payouts based on your relative team Elo you've got a tool you can use in QP and GQ as well. The idea has a lot of merits across the scale and I think would provide a return on invested cost for PGI far better than Tiers and absolutely more than Solaris has. It functionally puts a difficulty slider into the game players can control themselves, taking higher payout for lower tonnage and in a twisted way offsets the inherent lack of balance between weight classes.

It's not just a good idea it's a balanced idea with benefits across the spectrum with no real negatives and should have a positive impact on player retention.