37 replies to this topic

[Phoenix 72]

Pretty much the only streamer I actually watch is Baradul. A lot of the time he works hard to shoot a side torso off the enemy to remove their combat abilities instead of going for the CT.

Which made me wonder. I mainly aim for the CT, which - while taking longer - takes the mech out of the fight completely. However, if the enemy gets back into cover, I will have wasted my heat and my armour for little gain.

So I am wondering, is it generally better to try to take side torso's first? Or is coring out the enemy more effective?

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 11:24 AM.

[Koniving]

Darakor Stormwind, on 23 October 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Pretty much the only streamer I actually watch is Baradul. A lot of the time he works hard to shoot a side torso off the enemy to remove their combat abilities instead of going for the CT.

Which made me wonder. I mainly aim for the CT, which - while taking longer - takes the mech out of the fight completely. However, if the enemy gets back into cover, I will have wasted my heat and my armour for little gain.

So I am wondering, is it generally better to try to take side torso's first? Or is coring out the enemy more effective?

Leg.

But between the two... it depends. Are they extremely dangerous? How much danger can you remove from taking out the side torso?

Sometimes its better to cut off their offensive capabilities first, and then fry them.

.....and that's why I go for legs.
Once the leg is busted, slip up behind them and stay there, easy as pie, drill into their bum and its the same as their CT.

[Pariah Devalis]

Some builds and configurations heavily favor a specific side to the mech, and as such it can be beneficial to quickly disable them by blowing out the bulk of their firepower ASAP. Given no structure or armor quirks are present, it would be quicker to take that side off than go through CT.

That said, legs are far more consistently effective places to hit. This is because you can't "armor roll" legs as easily. Your only hope is intervening terrain or putting a broken leg in front of a non-broken one, and since mobility is limited in this case you cannot count on the former option. Also, sometimes, you can trigger an ammo explosion in an IS mech that completely destroys it from taking a single leg out.

However, going for both legs can theoretically take longer than going through the center, if they don't seem inclined to armor roll or have large hit boxes. That means they have that much longer to shoot at you while you give them the worst foot rub in history.

My advice? Always press R to see if the enemy mech has any significant damage to any particular torso or leg. Then act according to the situation. If I see a mech has a messed up right torso, but is left dominant, but one of its legs is also all kinds of messed up, I might just go for the leg and not the right torso. However, if I see his left torso is messed up, I'm totally going for that. If they are not messed up at all, take the surest shot.

In quickplay I default to CT on a fresh mech in light cover. That is, unless, it is a light mech. ALWAYS try to shoot the legs of a light mech. Or Crabs. Or Bushwackers. Or Linebackers. Or, for that matter, Marauders can also be good candidates for leg focus.

Why? In the case of the light mech, the only thing that keeps them alive is their speed. Without a leg, they are an easy to hit target. They also have small hitboxes, so will usually just automatically spread damage across their torsos, leading to ineffective damage. So just take a leg out and the mop up is simple.

In the case of the others? Torso design of those mechs is generally good at spreading damage (or they have torso armor quirks) again leading to ineffective application of damage. Their legs, however, are simple enough to isolate. All the torso twisting in the world won't spread the damage dealt to a leg. Once one leg is gone, the other will usually be a simple matter to eliminate shortly thereafter.

In Solaris or Scouting, I'm going leg hunting. It is far easier for four mechs to coordinate fire on two legs than on three torsos. Especially when those torsos are twisting damage onto the arms, as well. So you can easily focus fire onto two targets instead of damaging upwards of 5 targets. First team to kill an enemy mech will have the numerical and firepower advantage to repeat the process faster, and faster, and faster on the remaining enemy mechs.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 October 2018 - 09:55 AM.

[Ghastly]

It also depends on what chassis you're shooting at. Some mechs ("nosed" mechs especially), the CT hitbox is so narrow compared to the sides that it's generally more reliable to take off both side torsos, as damage you're putting at the CT could easily spread to the sides anyway, and they couldn't hide their side torsos effectively if they wanted to. Mad Cat II, Timber Wolf and actually the Annihilator (depending on what weapons you have; if you have pinpoint weapons, you can usually punch it in the throat) are all like this.

Popular loadouts can dictate what you shoot at as well. Taking off the right torso of a Marauder 3R will neuter just about all of the popular builds, for example, letting you focus on other important targets.

If you're consistently brawling in close-range with a team, also, going for legs on big mechs can mostly be a waste of time, as teammates moving around can usually get backshots, but this a level of team-work you don't usually see in solo-QP.

Edited by Ghastly, 23 October 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Unless you know a mech is IS XL and you can kill it with a torso shot - CT always - is a good rule.

People often aim the torsos to disable a mech or, more commonly, because it is easier to hit because they don't know the mech hitboxes properly so aim a shoulder rather.

That said some mechs like a Victor 9S - You are better off aiming the missile torso as you take that off that is the build of the firepower gone. Or a EBJ left torso as it takes out 70% of it's firepower.

That said CT is usually better either way as it takes less damage to kill a mech and 2 x torsos + associated spread damage. Once a mech is CT cored it needs to be careful. You lose a torso you can 'dead side' with that torso to shield... Cant shield a cherry red CT as you still need to shoot.


And as for aiming legs, possibly the worst advice I've seen in a while (and a lot of bad advice gets given out). Once you leg a mech you can shield with that dead leg and absord a much higher amount of damage that is then transferred. Unless it is a light mech, then legs slows them down which is their main advantage.

If legs were the 'thing' to aim, you would see the top level comp players doing it. Fact is they don't, but then they don't deliberately tank their stats so they stay against Tier 4/Tier 5 users to make themselves feel better.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 October 2018 - 01:49 PM.

[Koniving]

If someone is successfully shielding with a dead leg.... You must be really really bad at aiming as legs are never side by side enough to block with. Once you take out a leg you have the option of going for the other leg. The option of going for a torso whether from the front side or rear. Which negates the dead leg shield argument. There is also the fact that if they try to block you from any section of torso you can fry them from simply firing at the specific part of the pelvis corresponding to the intended torso.

It's cheap, cheesy and practically meta. But then again the only reasons to oppose it is either playing fair...or not wanting to have one's stats ruined....or the suffering that comes with the final two options after leaving the eny. Trolling the enemy by stripping them limb for limb.... Or running and leaving them alive to wish they were dead (very useful when you are the last guy against many and you need more time to take them one on one before they bunch up on you - fry leg and gain distance, repeat as necessary and mop up one at a time.)



Given the designs out there this rarely ever fails and if it does it's due to health, your size, or you started from in front.

Added img.

Edited by Koniving, 23 October 2018 - 03:03 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Koniving, on 23 October 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

If someone is successfully shielding with a dead leg.... You must be really really bad at aiming as legs are never side by side enough to block with. Once you take out a leg you have the option of going for the other leg. The option of going for a torso whether from the front side or rear. Which negates the dead leg shield argument. There is also the fact that if they try to block you from any section of torso you can fry them from simply firing at the specific part of the pelvis corresponding to the intended torso.

Any humanoid mech it is almost impossible to hit the other leg if someone is correctly - IE, a decent player. Chicken walker are a bit harder but not impossible.

So after you've just put 80-100dmg into a leg between armour and structure you are now going to waste time shooting a torso with another 60-80dmg? Which still leaves the mech capable of shooting back the entire time - because if you leg a mech - it still retains all it's firepower.



End of the day I'm one of the better players in the game, I play MWO competitively and have for a few years. I've also been trialling with EmP for the past 3 months, the best team in the game - they obviously think I might have what it takes.

You on the other hand tank your stats so you can stay in Tier 4/5 by your own admission and have given out factually incorrect advice more times than I can remember

Who are players going to believe at the end of the day I wonder?

[justcallme A S H]

Remember kids... Legging a mech leaves it with full firepower

https://clips.twitch...andsomeBeeDxCat

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 October 2018 - 03:54 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

justcallme A S H, on 23 October 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Any humanoid mech it is almost impossible to hit the other leg if someone is correctly - IE, a decent player. Chicken walker are a bit harder but not impossible.

So after you've just put 80-100dmg into a leg between armour and structure you are now going to waste time shooting a torso with another 60-80dmg? Which still leaves the mech capable of shooting back the entire time - because if you leg a mech - it still retains all it's firepower.



End of the day I'm one of the better players in the game, I play MWO competitively and have for a few years. I've also been trialling with EmP for the past 3 months, the best team in the game - they obviously think I might have what it takes.

You on the other hand tank your stats so you can stay in Tier 4/5 by your own admission and have given out factually incorrect advice more times than I can remember

Who are players going to believe at the end of the day I wonder?

Because you tried to argue from a stance of authority:

Hi. I'm Pariah. I am in the top 98% percentile according to the Jarl's List. I've had some comp experience in the past.

Legging is a legitimate tactic. Just not in every situation.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 October 2018 - 04:15 PM.

[Extra Guac]

The answer is, it depends.

Aiming CT should be the default. If one side torso is already damaged, then by all means finish it off. If it's an asymmetrical mech like the Marauder, then you want to take out the side with all its firepower (RT in this case).

At the start of a Solaris mech you get a chance to see the opposing mech, and this can show you where its weapons are located - plan accordingly. If you're against a medium mech with an AC20 and hardly any other weapons, then of course you should aim for wherever the AC20 is mounted.

For fast clan lights like Piranhas or Cheetahs, I aim for legs. For slower lights like the Kit Fox that plays more like a medium, I aim CT.

IS mechs 40 tons or below generally have XL engines, so aiming ST's can be very effective.

There are rare cases like the Nova where it sometimes makes sense to pick off its arms, especially if an arm is already damaged, or if they're shielding their CT.

Dead legging is effective. One way to prevent it is to soften up both of their legs before destroying either one. Melt all the armor off, then finish off both legs before they have a chance to dead leg you

[General Solo]

Just a repeat of what some have said

I think its all about neutralizing the target in the least number of shots
Less shots less risk/exposure
Neutralizing means dead or neutered but alive but shortly soon to be dead anyway.

For this reason I shoot CT's mostly
Quickest way to kill a mech with a standard engine apart from a headshot
and lots and lots of people don't torso twist in solo que where I mostly play
so its easy

The top the head on many humanoid mechs is CT, as is the crotch region and these area's don't twist so good, so I aim there if I have nowhere better when they twist



I aim for ST's when I see I can neutralize a target with less shots than by going for CT, like when they are overgunned and running an XL or most of their payload is in a ST.

its all about neutralizing the target in the least number of shots.

Which is why I also aim for legs!!!!!!!!!
On light mechs.
IMO taking away a lights mobility, neutralizes it and with my so so aim I can do that with less shots than going for CT/ST

But generally CT first then ST and legs as the target demands

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 23 October 2018 - 05:00 PM.

[SilentScreamer]

justcallme A S H, on 23 October 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

Remember kids... Legging a mech leaves it with full firepower

If I find an enemy Assault trying to solo cap in Conquest, or solo hunting in other modes I find is usualky a better use of my time and my mech's armor to leg them, then leave to rejoin the team. Legging something like an Anhillator or Direwolf when it is far from the fight effectively takes it out of the battle.

Also, as ASH pointed out, those mechs are still very lethal when legged, so why give the pilot further opportunity to get that lucky shot to cripple my light mech? Risk for that second leg is usually too high, so let your teamates deal with it. Leg them - then Leave them.

As far as OP, if a mech is Undamaged, I shoot for a side torso over CT. If mech is damaged, shoot the open section. Too many players don't use the "R" to target fire.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 23 October 2018 - 05:51 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Pariah Devalis, on 23 October 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Because you tried to argue from a stance of authority:

Of course I did. I've got the experience to back it up by knowing how to actually play the game at a high level. 'Some comp' is not high at all. Added to that I don't deliberately tank my stats. Nor do I give out consistently incorrect information that is easily refuted with information freely available from within the game.

I mean the last time it was called out it ended up in a private lobby and there was egg on someones face. No surprise it was the stat-tanker eating egg with the bad advice.

Pariah Devalis, on 23 October 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Legging is a legitimate tactic. Just not in every situation.

Which I pointed out.

justcallme A S H, on 23 October 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

Unless it is a light mech, then legs slows them down which is their main advantage.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 October 2018 - 05:39 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

To summarise the above.

If you don't know your hitboxes or mechs well enough to ID them & their builds at a glance. Shoot CT.

If you do... well its different in every situation. Still mostly Shoot CT.

More commonly, Press R -> HIT THE ALREADY RED COMPONENT.


Personally my favorite is REAR CT.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 23 October 2018 - 08:57 PM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Koniving, on 23 October 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

If someone is successfully shielding with a dead leg.... You must be really really bad at aiming as legs are never side by side enough to block with. Once you take out a leg you have the option of going for the other leg. The option of going for a torso whether from the front side or rear. Which negates the dead leg shield argument. There is also the fact that if they try to block you from any section of torso you can fry them from simply firing at the specific part of the pelvis corresponding to the intended torso.

It's cheap, cheesy and practically meta. But then again the only reasons to oppose it is either playing fair...or not wanting to have one's stats ruined....or the suffering that comes with the final two options after leaving the eny. Trolling the enemy by stripping them limb for limb.... Or running and leaving them alive to wish they were dead (very useful when you are the last guy against many and you need more time to take them one on one before they bunch up on you - fry leg and gain distance, repeat as necessary and mop up one at a time.)

Given the designs out there this rarely ever fails and if it does it's due to health, your size, or you started from in front.

Aiming legs on MCII. LUL

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 23 October 2018 - 11:55 PM.

[Mister Maf]

If you splash some hits on a mech and notice their legs take way more damage than they should, then by all means shoot the legs because that player stripped too much armor from them for tonnage and is hoping nobody will notice. Otherwise, until you get more familiar with the hitboxes on each mech, their survival quirks, and their most popular builds, shoot:
1) The component that already has the most damage
2) The center torso

And of course on lights shoot legs, or alternatively on IS lights the side torso.

With time you will gain experience and learn the most efficient way to deal with different mechs. If you are playing as a hit-and-run mech it can be effective to just take a cheap shot at a component you know you can remove without taking many hits and then running away, even if it's not the center torso. Other mechs like 2xHG builds are more efficiently neutralized by critting out the weapons (which is much easier to do with gauss rifles than it is with other components) rather than working your way through its armored CT. Even on an Atlas I will sometimes opt to take out one of its side torsos first just because they're so easy to hit and one or the other often accounts for most of its firepower, depending on the build. But the safest bet in most cases is to just shoot the center.

All of that said, I still advocate shooting the legs on Bushwackers specifically, because Bushwackers have super good hitboxes everywhere except the legs, which are the size of a barn.

Edited by Mister Maf, 24 October 2018 - 01:10 AM.

[visionGT4]

If current armor state is fresh or unknown and im rolling alone, the ST which is likely to be carrying the most guns. With friendlies around its the CT. Serious mode its whereever the boss says to shoot

And it goes without saying that lights get it in the legs.

[justcallme A S H]

denAirwalkerrr, on 23 October 2018 - 11:54 PM, said:

Aiming legs on MCII. LUL

Look at all that leg aiming at the top tier MWO Competitive play vs all the cored CT's

:thinking:

[Ruccus]

It depends on what mech I'm using, but generally in the early game I'll go for side torsos because I'm usually piloting an Inner Sphere mech under 70 tons so I don't have the firepower to core many enemies before they core me, a side torso loss will play havoc with the heat scale on clans and LFE engined Inner Sphere mechs, and I find when a side torso is exposed the player will start playing much less aggressively.

That means against something like a Hellbringer or Ebon Jaguar I just have to do about 60 points of damage to a side torso and he's playing the rest of the match guarding that torso and not wanting to peek until he's sure he won't get return fire. With a standard Inner Sphere AC20 plus four medium lasers build I can do that in about four seconds with enough down time to spread incoming damage across my torsos and arms, so I'll take that trade and get the heck out of there before the second clan alpha comes.

With regards to legs, generally I only go for them on lights or if I'm attempting to win a match by the objective. For example in Faction Play Scouting if you're the defender and can leg all remaining mechs before you're wiped out you can still win if the landing zone ends up any decent distance from where you battled. Also legging the quicker mechs in Conquest can help you win by objective if the mech count remains reasonably close, especially if your team's quicker mechs remain alive and theirs aren't or are legged.