23 replies to this topic

[Avengar]

Procedurally generated maps, Is that something this game engine is capable of? and would you guys like that?

[Prototelis]

Probably not with this version of cryengine.

Would be dope for faction though. Every planet could be its own map if the algorithm didn't suck.

[MechaBattler]

MW5 will have them. Pray MWO may be delivered from the trappings of our outmoded franken cryengine.

[Vellron2005]

I suggested this very thing a few years ago..

It was told to me then that cryengine (especially the way MWO uses it) can't support it..

Then they added this feature (and many others I suggested over the years, like walk-in mech bay and such) into MW5.. but MW5 is made in Unreal4 Engine..

So now many (including myself) are pushing for an engine update to Unreal4, because we want the look and feel of the game updated, and we want procedurally generated maps.

I think randomized map generation, with just terrain being selected, rather than finished map, would kick thing game into overdrive.. Because all the tryhards could not memorize every nook and cranny of every map, and have a dozen strategies that exploit faulty map design readily available.

Also, you would not be limited to the same map design mistakes every time you drop on that map.

You would have equal chance of the map being awesome or sucking for your build..

And escort might have some more meaning..

Alas, I am hoping that an engine change, bringing this feature to MWO, will be one of the big announcements on this year's Mechcon - not just a new mech, or map..

[Peter2k]

CryEngine can't do so it's one reason to hope they switch MWO to MW5 (no matter what they call it, like MWO 2 or whatever)

On escort, MW5 comes with AI for mechs and vehicles obviously, I'm sure I could think of some interesting way to incorporate those 2 things in escort, or FP, or other modes.

Also it does seem like game revs are learning to code with UE and not CryEngine, which seems to make sense from today's perspective as it's free to use these days.

Also it could be sort of procedural.
MW5 does not use procedural in the classical sense but predefined sets, so I'm sure it could be done in a fair way (like starting positions, vantage points and so on)


I'm also hoping that since PGI included the new RTX features that they have the engine more under control than the old one.

Edited by Peter2k, 24 October 2018 - 04:46 AM.

[dwwolf]

Warframe uses procedurally generated maps.made from tile sets.
It works fairly well for PvE.

It could work if done right.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the Cryengine version 3 has a PT function
https://www.packtpub...cedural-terrain

real procedual terrain have many problems and is extrem Buggy for Multiplayer games in 3 D (floating objects or half in Terrain,droppoints under Terrain ,Holes and many Glitches in terrain or you drop in impassable Terrain of the Top of a 100m Mountain fpr example) like No Mans Sky and horrible Building times from many Minutes with many detailed assets and Terrain structures ...PT in Gameengines can not create in Moment Streets or Rivers or Citys or Build logical structures with Buildings like citys or settlements (its great for Games in natural Ambient with users they build unnatural Structures like ARK)
So PGI try a other and better Way like XCom 2 ...modules thats handbuilded and combined with algorithms and the Textures and Vegetation/objectlayers (like stones ...pebbles) for Biomes procedual Generated

https://www.polygon....r-5-mercenaries

Procedual terrain is a very new Feature in Gameindustry and doing his first steps ...its lightyears away today from the amazing PT function from Programs for landdscape generating thats used for animations or Movies
in Moment the most wishes to a realistic Looking procedual terrain in 3D games most unrealistic (problems by sensefull placement of Objects like bridges)...we will seeing what comes the next years by it.

Quote

CryEngine can't do so it's one reason to hope they switch MWO to MW5 (no matter what they call it, like MWO 2 or whatever)

not in the next two Years ...PGI must collect experience (and Money) with the UE4

Quote

On escort, MW5 comes with AI for mechs and vehicles obviously, I'm sure I could think of some interesting way to incorporate those 2 things in escort, or FP, or other modes.

Peter Innoye says clear no AI in MWO and nothing Plans in future to bring it in

Good example for PT problems is Ark Survival ...

Quote

Concerns with Procedurally Generated ARKs going forward...
Well, we've got a couple of DLCs posted up now, and I think we've seen a lot that worked, and a lot that didn't, and still doesn't. I also think we've seen a lot of trash on the main map itself, so I have some concerns about the procedural generations going forwards. The way I see it, devs, you've got to have these things solid by full release:

1) Data Compression. Back in the old days, things took forever to load, didn't they? You know, the old days when Primitive was released prematurely as DLC? I'm not talking about Ark generation times, because I can see that taking a while. I'm talking 5-15 minutes for people to load into a generated map - a map they own.

2) Procedural Generation times. Yeah, they need to be as fast as possible, without compromising quality.

3) Compatibility. If a server has to be reset every time there is a game update (like what happened to many MAC and Linux servers with the Center Map), there's no point at all. Don't even bother. The generated maps should also be able to be used with mod content from the workshop and DLC.

4) Map quality. Yes. So, when you do a map procedurally, and then supposedly hand check the areas affected by changes, and playersr find palm trees in the snow zones and other things that should only be on land growing in the water, or rocks/trees STILL floating in the air, that's not going to cut it. Let's keep that to a minimum. Another serious concern is terrain traps - those areas that SHOULD be playable, but are geometric death traps.

5) Transitional terrain. YOU NEED THIS, AND YOU KNOW IT. There must be some areas between the terrain zones that are a little of both. You cannot have a line, and on one side it's -20, on the other side 70. That's silly - even sillier than the aphas, the giga, and the titano.

6) Ease of use. Okay, I've watched server admins tear out their hair going through the various config files and trying to make sure that dino appearances were correct for terrain type (T-REX in snow is a no - just sayin'), number appearing, levelling and progression settings, and even just simply trying to get a damned dinosaur to turn off, because they hate the friggin' thing. Some of those guys are pretty damned smart, and if they can't get it right, the average casual hoster doesn't stand a chance. For a procedurally generated map, or frankly just the main game, how about a couple of GUI pages that are scalable (basic, advanced), simple to use, powerful, and user friendly? People generating maps should be able to determine size, extremes of elevation (within game engine parameters), climate zone, animal types (age of mammals, anyone?), basically everything.

And I'll have onion rings instead of fries, and a large coke with that. Seriously though. These things are important.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von jrc1967; 8. Aug. 2016 um 17:38 Uhr

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 24 October 2018 - 09:01 AM.

[Koniving]

Peter2k, on 24 October 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

CryEngine can't do so it's one reason to hope they switch MWO to MW5 (no matter what they call it, like MWO 2 or whatever)

On escort, MW5 comes with AI for mechs and vehicles obviously, I'm sure I could think of some interesting way to incorporate those 2 things in escort, or FP, or other modes.

Also it does seem like game revs are learning to code with UE and not CryEngine, which seems to make sense from today's perspective as it's free to use these days.

Also it could be sort of procedural.
MW5 does not use procedural in the classical sense but predefined sets, so I'm sure it could be done in a fair way (like starting positions, vantage points and so on)


I'm also hoping that since PGI included the new RTX features that they have the engine more under control than the old one.

Cryengine procedurally creating a planet in real time.
(This isn't in real time. There was one that did, but the results weren't nearly so good. I'm having trouble finding that video but it's nearly 5 years old.)


Star citizen changed engines to lumberyard in December 2016 on the 27th (or so announced) this is on cry engine. (The far better stuff is on lumberyard)

I should note we are using an older version of cry engine and the last time pgi updated the cry engine they had to rewrite half the game (which wasn't much at the time).

Also pgi has known how to use unreal engine since 2000+. They converted Duke nukem to PC on it and MW5 (never released) was on unreal 3. MW5 mercs is on unreal 4.



And covered in January 2017...

The switch.

And now.

Edited by Koniving, 24 October 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[lobsterhierarchy]

A couple friends (read: mechs you don’t shoot) and I joke prematch about mashing maps together when the vote comes down to two selections. The joke spawned from an accidental slip of combining polar highlands with canyon network so we got polar network or canyon highlands Notable mentions include Solaris Therma, HPG Plexus, and Grim City.

I’d totally push for randomly generated maps...but hell even a dozen well made maps would be welcome at this point.

[Gristle Missile]

Cryengine is already prone to dropping players through the ground into limbo
I think PG maps would break things lol

But yeah, Ive always thought that randomly generated terrain is the way to go for these kinda games. Keeps it fresh and different
Hope MW5 will lead to update for MWO

[Throe]

[delete by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 03:40 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Gristle Missile, on 24 October 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

Cryengine is already prone to dropping players through the ground into limbo
I think PG maps would break things lol

But yeah, Ive always thought that randomly generated terrain is the way to go for these kinda games. Keeps it fresh and different
Hope MW5 will lead to update for MWO

its not the cryengine ...thats problem have all engines when used from People thats not testing her maps enough or use procedual terrain...in old MW Days im testing my Maps with friends many Weeks ...and Ark Survival use the UE4 for procedual terrain with the same problems ...so its the way from PGi for mW5 the best solution

Quote

For the record, this is known to be false. You can see various examples of it in the Escort game mode, and the Academy. Escort has an Atlas moving down a predefined path. The wave defense mode in the Academy has 'Mechs walking toward you and shooting. The "Gauntlet" and "Running Cored" modes both have 'Mechs shooting you while you're moving. And then the far side of the Academy is a "live" testing ground with 'Mechs that shoot UAVs when they die, and that actively target you, although they don't move.

yes very simple scripts, not with very great Behaviour Trees for searching and reacting and variations in it...hope thats by release the Helicopters in MW5 not more flys in the buildings XD

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 24 October 2018 - 11:06 AM.

[LordNothing]

Throe, on 24 October 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

For the record, this is known to be false. You can see various examples of it in the Escort game mode, and the Academy. Escort has an Atlas moving down a predefined path. The wave defense mode in the Academy has 'Mechs walking toward you and shooting. The "Gauntlet" and "Running Cored" modes both have 'Mechs shooting you while you're moving. And then the far side of the Academy is a "live" testing ground with 'Mechs that shoot UAVs when they die, and that actively target you, although they don't move.

Although in strict scientific terms, many would say there isn't a game to date that has true AI, many have the illusion of intelligence, which is exactly what MWO has already.

I realize it won't change anything about their plans of not developing any more AI or singleplayer content for MWO(because MW5), but it's worth pointing out that they definitely have the capability.

the atlas in escort simply seems to be following a waypoint path. its not even a dynamic path, it just picks one of 3 static paths at random. a pathing algorithm does not an ai make. mechs in the acadamy seem to be running a simple aimbot. also not really an ai, a pd controller perhaps. while these things are used in an ai, they are only 2 minor components.

[Throe]

[delete by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 03:39 PM.

[Khobai]

turrets must use some kindve AI to target mechs

at the very least the atlas in escort should be able to shoot things with 2-4 large/medium lasers, have AMS, and maybe an LRM20.

the atlas should have weapons because the defending side is at a huge disadvantage on escort

Edited by Khobai, 24 October 2018 - 11:12 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the Lumberyard SC cities looks from the Sky amazing by the ground level you can drive in the city or is only random placed "basic" entry buildings with life enviroments around thats random Places ?thats the for me most interesting part of it ,can the engine a real City with lamps, bridges, Streets (like many new Landscape engines) ,or only the simple Illusion from a City from the Sky without real Ground enviroments ?

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 24 October 2018 - 12:34 PM.

[Anastasius Foht]

OP clearly don't have idea how multiplayer shooter maps are created, so this thread is pointless, its same level of amazing idea like procedurally generated mechs.

[ApolloKaras]

Anastasius Foht, on 24 October 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

OP clearly don't have idea how multiplayer shooter maps are created, so this thread is pointless, its same level of amazing idea like procedurally generated mechs.

agreed....

People complain about the maps that were made by hand.... Procedural maps dont have a prayer.

[dwwolf]

ApolloKaras, on 24 October 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

agreed....

People complain about the maps that were made by hand.... Procedural maps dont have a prayer.

That depends on the rule setand the map components.

[razenWing]

ApolloKaras, on 24 October 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

agreed....

People complain about the maps that were made by hand.... Procedural maps dont have a prayer.

LAWLZ at the meta nerds that want everything to be super predictable. LoL, Dota, and/or HoTS with their standard 3 lane system with different skins. Maximize your meta play, no sense of exploring or discovering.

"Oh no, if I have to actually scout and fight for positions, my meta vomit might not work... WAH WAH imbalance, no fun, unfair!"

--------
Back to real discussion,

Procedural maps are like the holy grail. I don't think you can create enough complex environment created without glaring glitches. Procedural generated polar highlands on 6 different skins is rather pointless IMO. I think what MWO team should consider just making maps without skins and perhaps, then it will be possible for procedural generated maps to be complex but without glitches.