61 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 30 October 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

PPFLD should not become easier to alpha. We already had several bad experiences before.

Eating some heat penalty for 60 PPFLD is easy for many people.

Sure i guess.

But if anything, I'd push for GH with two GRs firing at once. I mean there's only 0.55, 1, and 2 heat, it will take a lot of multiplier to get this up at crazy amount. My math even took me up to 75 multiplier, just so 2x Gauss would have a total of 8 heat -- for scale, an AC20 has 6 heat.

Admittedly, what will it do with 2x PPC + Gauss or 2x Gauss + PPC would be probably be insane.

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

Isn't 2 Gauss riffles OP enough?

Come one.. really?

Some people..

This was just a thought really, that more-than-2 isn't exactly something I'm pushing. Likewise, with the immense drawback of doing a lot of gauss such as slow with a lot of armor reduction, It's going to be powerful but ain't that meta.

Well, not really no. 30 damage is serious, but compared to other damage allotment, it's just kind of okay. What GRs OP is the heat (or lack thereof), and that is what I am trying to address. I'm not really interested in firing 4 GRs all at once, but I want to see increased heat in the form of GH.

Having it basically heatless when only firing 1, but has ballpark damage/heat simmilar to AC20 when firing 2 is the beauty of this approach. So you can either just shoot one gauss at a time to not build up heat while still providing good damage, but when you're trying to alpha with Laser-Vomit, you're building more heat and the Gauss thrown in with the mix isn't too powerful.

Practically heatless PPFLD is why the Gauss are meta to build with high-alpha lasers. People like El Bandito, MechaBattler, and Yeonne Greene is asking to put heat on the Gauss, this is my compromise with it that keeps to the spirit.

Shame a lot of people like you are too hung up on a single aspect that you don't like, and ignore the rest. Ya'll can't be objective.

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

Well I'm going to keep calling you on your crappy ideas then.

Cool. It's nice to know that you care about that much. I love you man.

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

Which is why my ideas are better

Ideas? "S"?

So really this is just about the competition?

As for your idea here, no man, your idea with quasi-powerdraw implementation with Gauss is an unnecessary complication that makes the Gauss weapons unfun.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 31 October 2018 - 04:43 AM.

[Vellron2005]

The Gauss riffle, and it's variants, in my opinion, has always been the most broken, OP weapon in the BattleTech setting.

They can't nerf it enough..

[Eisenhorne]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

Lol:

ANH-1A

That's cute.

KDK-3

[K O Z A K]

Eisenhorne, on 02 November 2018 - 06:03 AM, said:

That's cute.

KDK-3

Imagine 12 of those? Just imagine.......why haven't we done this yet?!?

[Eisenhorne]

Hazeclaw, on 02 November 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Imagine 12 of those? Just imagine.......why haven't we done this yet?!?

Because getting 12 guys to commit to a meme mech when we don't have a constant 12 guys dropping all the time would be difficult.

[K O Z A K]

.....but 48 gauss rifles, shooting in 24s granted.....but.....48 gauss rifles

[Eisenhorne]

Biggest problem is the 40 KPH speed. I'm pretty sure most of us could be convinced to do it anyway though...

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 02 November 2018 - 12:11 AM, said:

The Gauss riffle, and it's variants, in my opinion, has always been the most broken, OP weapon in the BattleTech setting.

They can't nerf it enough..

Meanwhile MWO is mechanistically different. I thought that was obvious.

Eisenhorne, on 02 November 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Biggest problem is the 40 KPH speed. I'm pretty sure most of us could be convinced to do it anyway though...

Well, there's that.

[El Bandito]

Eisenhorne, on 02 November 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Biggest problem is the 40 KPH speed. I'm pretty sure most of us could be convinced to do it anyway though...

Too much ammo in that build. One can easily put in a Std 300 and move at 48.6 kph if he removed the ammo in the RA and strip it. Could work in Siege maps.

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 30 October 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

PPFLD should not become easier to alpha. We already had several bad experiences before.

Eating some heat penalty for 60 PPFLD is easy for many people.

one of the reasons im for stacked charge. having to hold the button a full 2 seconds before you fire is going to make the weapon very difficult to use. high difficulty high reward.

[Khobai]

how bout no

instead PGI should just limit heavy gauss to a ghost heat limit of 1 and keep the charge limit of 2. Dual heavy gauss should then be buffed to be more powerful as a singleton weapon.

light gauss should also do 10 damage and have a ghost heat limit of 3 (but still a charge limit of 2). That would allow x2 light gauss + erppc or x2 erppc + light gauss. 30 PPFLD damage would hardly be broken.

but the 50+ PPFLD of dual heavy gauss + MPL really needs to be penalized with ghost heat. Pinpoint alphastrikes that big break the game, they always have.

Edited by Khobai, 02 November 2018 - 06:44 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 02 November 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

how bout no

instead PGI should just limit heavy gauss to a ghost heat limit of 1 and keep the charge limit of 2. Dual heavy gauss should then be buffed to be more powerful as a singleton weapon.

light gauss should also do 10 damage and have a ghost heat limit of 3 (but still a charge limit of 2). That would allow x2 light gauss + erppc or x2 erppc + light gauss. 30 PPFLD damage would hardly be broken.

but the 50+ PPFLD of dual heavy gauss + MPL really needs to be penalized with ghost heat. Pinpoint alphastrikes that big break the game, they always have.

Well, you still have a practically heatless weapon there. You should make your own thread with that.

[Mochyn Pupur]

hmm . . . . No.

Brawling has been hammered enough, this just pushes the twin+ ballistic snipers further back into the background and would encourage the final vestiges of the brawl game to be thrown away.

[Dimento Graven]

Personally, I can't understand the objection everyone has to having the gauss modified to allow more than two to fire at a time.

You can fire an unlimited number of every other weapon in the game no problem, and for some builds, such as the 4+PPC builds I've seen running around, or the 6 to 8 LL builds, 6 to 8 ballistics, etc, builds that are much more 'meta' than anything sporting 4 gauss, having much higher durability, speed, and ammo capacity than a 'mech kitted out with 4 gauss would ever be.

Yeah, so the gauss has low heat, it's the ONE benefit to the weapon that no other weapon (besides maybe MG's which as I recall have a higher DPS than gauss) in the game has, yet even that has been mitigated to some degree by the recent heat changes. I'm watching people with these PPC/AC/Laser/Missile boat builds with super high alphas, firing an alpha at least twice with no issue, and some pilots have obviously min/max'd the skill tree such that perhaps 3 or 4 alphas before max heat aren't out of the question.

The primary drawbacks to the gauss are some pretty hefty ones - they are large, heavy, extremely fragile, very explosive bombs strapped to your 'mech. The moment your external armor is open over that location, probably the next one or two hits on that location either completely disables it at a minimum to blowing that entire side off your mech (with at least a 90% chance of THAT occurring). No other weapon suffers this. Also, you can't auto-chain fire them, at all. You may think, "so what?", but there are specific scenarios where hammering an enemy 'mech with two large cockpit shaking hits, one after the other, are extremely beneficial to the team.

It has a charge up cycle making snap shots a lot more complicated than most other weapon, barring maybe SSRMs/LRMs (LOL) and RACs (not so LOL). Most of the other ballistic related benefits that existed have already been nerfed out of existence, so the weapon which used to be absolutely great in the hands of a skilled player capable of aiming, has over time becomes at best, "just a notch above mediocre", and while other weapons systems have been enjoying a bit of buffing, this causes the gauss to feel that much more weak.

Heck, if you want to do well, jump in a clan 'mech and boat 6-SSRM 6's and just alpha twice on almost any 'mech and enjoy easy kills all night long, or a 4 ER PPC Warhawk and play sniper with a weapon that is as pin point in aiming, and can travel at comparable speeds as the gauss (dependent on skill choices and such), or just for the sake of being a trolling bastage, pop in 6 AC/2's and other specific equipment choices and do long distance face ***** of the enemy...

Seriously the gauss needs some love, I think the least of which would be to eliminate the prohibition on firing more than two at a time. I have a lot of other ideas that might help, most of which would cause those that hate people who can aim, to scream like little girls and threaten to never play the game again (as they always do, "If I don't get my way, I won't play with you any more, nyahhhh..."), so I hesitate to even mention them for fear of a massive derail and inciting the naysayers to intentionally trying to get this thread locked.

I would say one change that should be made is that ARM MOUNTED gauss should have no recoil, however TORSO mounted gauss, should, but that would be true of all ballistics in my opinion, and the reasons should be pretty obvious.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 November 2018 - 09:44 AM.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Dogstar, on 30 October 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Once again - just no. Please stop with the suggestions.

Ghost Heat is a bad mechanism in the first place. If you want to penalise boating Gauss rifles then a much better solution would be to add the charge up time together and add a HGR recoil effect that is multiplied by the number of gauss weapons boated. Charge time numbers below are just for example.

1xGR = 0.5s charge, minor recoil
2xGR = 1.0s charge, moderate recoil (= current HGR recoil effect)
3xGR = 1.5s charge, high recoil
4xGR = 2.0s charge, huge recoil

Light gauss rifles could have half the charge and recoil of standard gauss rifles to make up for their crappy damage

1xHGR = 0.75s charge, moderate recoil (current recoil effect)
2xHGR = 1.5s charge, huge recoil (twice current recoil)

Also to consider - prevent any other weapons firing while gauss weapons are charging

That's a much better solution that makes boating gauss weapons have a 'power draw' effect and be something that only a skilled pilot should consider.



However it doesn't matter because....

PGI DON'T LISTEN!

Dude if i have 4 gauss rifles, i have no sidearms, why would i mind a cockpit shake after i shot?

[Dogstar]

Cara Carcass, on 08 November 2018 - 07:08 AM, said:

Dude if i have 4 gauss rifles, i have no sidearms, why would i mind a cockpit shake after i shot?

Because you love the flavour of course!

It's a good point though.

[Grus]

Eisenhorne, on 02 November 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

Because getting 12 guys to commit to a meme mech when we don't have a constant 12 guys dropping all the time would be difficult.

I use it a lot in QP. People dont let me live very long after they see it lol.

[TheArisen]

Well I'd be in favor of allowing 4 light gauss to charge and fire at the same time. It'd still be inferior to dual regular gauss but at least it'd be something for Lgauss to have.

[Y E O N N E]

I don't like the idea of increasing the charge limit because I don't want PGI to balance LGauss around the capability of firing 4. On the chance that it's too good in a quartet with current stats, the last thing we need is it being made even worse when used in fewer numbers.

I would much rather just increase its damage by a point or two. I'd even give back the ammo buff for that.

[The Image]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 November 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

I don't like the idea of increasing the charge limit because I don't want PGI to balance LGauss around the capability of firing 4. On the chance that it's too good in a quartet with current stats, the last thing we need is it being made even worse when used in fewer numbers.

I would much rather just increase its damage by a point or two. I'd even give back the ammo buff for that.

I disagree with your worry about it being "too good" in a quartet. MOST 'mechs would only be capable of limited ammo, giving up a LOT of speed and survivability just to equip the 4.

That plus the raw stats show that even though it's [sarcasm]a whole whopping 32 point alpha[/sarcasm] stat-wise, and reality based play will prove that boating AC/UAC/LBX will be FAR more effective in game. Seriously 6 AC/2's while only a 12 point alpha has a higher DPS, and almost double the DPS/T than 4 gauss, and you don't have to have strap giant explosives that never go away, to your 'mech either.