61 replies to this topic

[Wing 0]

How about no on any of this crap that's been said here. At this point I don't care who keeps making threads like these. best to just kill their threads and be done with it.

[Dimento Graven]

Wing 0, on 10 November 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

How about no on any of this crap that's been said here. At this point I don't care who keeps making threads like these. best to just kill their threads and be done with it.

That seems to be an overly closed minded view. I for one, enjoy discussing ways to improve gauss. It's been overly burdened with the nerf bat, and overly maligned by people of low skill.

Between all the nerfs and long standing hit registration issues, gauss (and ballistics in general to some degree) needs improvement.

Hell just push the reliability of ballistics hit registration to 99% instead of the low 80's as it is now, and maybe that would be enough (incidentally THAT alone might fix some of the perceived weakness in AC/UAC/LBX/RAC, heck, even PPC)...

[Y E O N N E]

The Image, on 10 November 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

I disagree with your worry about it being "too good" in a quartet. MOST 'mechs would only be capable of limited ammo, giving up a LOT of speed and survivability just to equip the 4.

That plus the raw stats show that even though it's [sarcasm]a whole whopping 32 point alpha[/sarcasm] stat-wise, and reality based play will prove that boating AC/UAC/LBX will be FAR more effective in game. Seriously 6 AC/2's while only a 12 point alpha has a higher DPS, and almost double the DPS/T than 4 gauss, and you don't have to have strap giant explosives that never go away, to your 'mech either.

But the gun will still be nigh-useless with any less than 4.

That's the problem.

[Reno Blade]

The6thMessenger, on 30 October 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

...
"heatpenalty": 50, (Assuming)
"heatPenaltyID": 1,
"minheatpenaltylevel": 1,

So Penalty = (Base Heat x Penalty x Multiplier)

GR
Firing 2 = (1 x 50 x 0.08) = 4 -> 2 + 4 = 6 total heat.
Firing 3 = (1 x 50 x 0.18) = 9 -> 3 + 9 = 12 total heat.
Firing 4 = (1 x 50 x 0.30) = 15 -> 4 + 15 = 19 total heat.

HGR
Firing 2 = (2 x 50 x 0.08) = 8 -> 4 + 8 = 12 total heat.
Firing 3 = (2 x 50 x 0.18) = 18 -> 6 + 18 = 24 total heat.
Firing 4 = (2 x 50 x 0.30) = 30 -> 8 + 30 = 38 total heat.

LGR
Firing 2 = (0.55 x 50 x 0.08) = 2.2 -> 1.1 + 2.2 = 3.3 total heat.
Firing 3 = (0.55 x 50 x 0.18) = 4.95 -> 1.65 + 4.95 = 6.6 total heat.
Firing 4 = (0.55 x 50 x 0.30) = 8.25 -> 2.2 + 8.25 = 10.45 total heat.

I would like to point out that GH is stacked for each weapon in the calculation:
e.g. you need to add the total heat of 2 Gauss to the 3rd Gauss total heat.

GR
Firing 2 = (1 x 50 x 0.08) = 4penalty + 2base = 6 total heat.
Firing 3 = (1 x 50 x 0.08) +(1 x 50 x 0.18) = 13penalty(4 + 9) + 3base = 16 total heat.
Firing 4 = (1 x 50 x 0.08) +(1 x 50 x 0.18) + (1 x 50 x 0.30) = 28penalty(4 + 9 + 15) + 4base = 32 total heat.

I like to use GH for reducing boating instead of increasing base heat for weapons in general.
Because this helps low-hardpoint mechs and especially light/med mechs when using the weapon (as a single weapon build) over their heavy/assault counterparts using boating of 2+ weapons.

For me GH is a useful tool (tho not perfect) which I like to see used more for controlling overall power creep of boats that does keep smaller mechs untouched.

For the Gauss classes in general, i would still combine base heat increase to GH scaling, just to also reduce the super-synergy to energy weapons that no other weapon can bring (even not the low-heat LBX) to this degree.

e.g. Base heat of Gauss = 3
GR ghost heat:
Firing 1 = 3 heat
Firing 2 = (3 x 20 x 0.08) = 4.8penalty + 6base = 10.8 total heat.
Firing 3 = (3 x 20 x 0.08) +(3 x 20 x 0.18) = 15.6penalty(4.8 + 10.8) + 9base = 24.6 total heat.
Firing 4 = (3 x 20 x 0.08) +(3 x 20 x 0.18) + (3 x 50 x 0.30) = 33.6penalty(4.8 + 10.8 + 18) + 4base = 45.6 total heat.

BUT:
For a 4-Gauss Mech (without lasers, this doesnt do much of limiting them at all.
It might take a few extra seconds to cool down without many DHS, but without any laser weapons to increase your heat further, the Gauss-only builds will not care much for the heat.

[Dogstar]

Please stop with suggestions that involve ghost heat! It's a crappy broken mechanic that doesn't benefit anyone.

What we need are ideas that find other ways to penalise excessive boating of weapons.

[Lightfoot]

MWO's mechs are too weak to support the Gauss Rifle. In a normal well balanced MechWarrior game the shear weight and slow recharge are enough to rule out 3x Gauss configs. You can do it on some like Gladiator, but it makes more sense to use 2xGauss and 2x ERPPC. Meanwhile in MWO that would not be supported unless fired in separate pairs. I think MWO needs 3x armor and structure due to the size of the hitboxes and un-nerf the weapons, especially get rid of the apocryphal Gauss charge-up. But that will never happen. But I would be playing MWO more if it did.

Ghost Heat on a Gauss Rifle set wouldn't work, is not the problem with multiple Gauss+name it.

I will say 3x Light Gauss should incur no penalty and work with PPCs. Unless they bump up Light Gauss damage, it should be 9 damage.

[Foxwalker]

As if we don't have enough ways to one-shot kill anything under 50 tons.

[lazorbeamz]

Gauss to 1 is a bad idea. Double gauss is too widely available to remove it from the game completely.

For the same reason they did not go with large ghost heat limitations for the clan lasers.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 12 November 2018 - 09:25 PM.

[Foxwalker]

lazorbeamz, on 12 November 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

Gauss to 1 is a bad idea. Double gauss is too widely available to remove it from the game completely.

For the same reason they did not go with large ghost heat limitations for the clan lasers.

But they did increase burn times to limit pinpoint damage. No I remember the 3 Gauss Cataphract glass cannon. It was a beast, and most likely one of the reasons they made the current limitation.

[Dimento Graven]

Foxwalker, on 12 November 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

But they did increase burn times to limit pinpoint damage. No I remember the 3 Gauss Cataphract glass cannon. It was a beast, and most likely one of the reasons they made the current limitation.

Incorrect. The fact that the 3 gauss Cataphract could only have 10 shots and was such a fragile thing kept it in balance.

The real reason it was limited to two was because of the Direwolf. Which could sport 4 carry significant ammo, and still sport enough armor to be problematic.

This was one of the first major nerfs to weapons systems in an attempt to 'balance' Clan-vs-IS (hence the dual fire limit being placed AT THE SAME TIME as the Clans being released into the game).

[CygnusX7]

Don't forget the 52kph 3 gauss victor. 675 max damage potential.
Hey, it's just a game.

[Foxwalker]

Dimento Graven, on 13 November 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

Incorrect. The fact that the 3 gauss Cataphract could only have 10 shots and was such a fragile thing kept it in balance.

The real reason it was limited to two was because of the Direwolf. Which could sport 4 carry significant ammo, and still sport enough armor to be problematic.

This was one of the first major nerfs to weapons systems in an attempt to 'balance' Clan-vs-IS (hence the dual fire limit being placed AT THE SAME TIME as the Clans being released into the game).

I stand corrected. You are right. I miss being able to use Gauss. Never could get the hang of the Press and release fire mechanic.

[ShiverMeRivets]

CygnusX7, on 13 November 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Don't forget the 52kph 3 gauss victor. 675 max damage potential.
Hey, it's just a game.

3 regular GRs do 45 alpha and weight 45 tons.
2 HGRs do 50 alpha and weight 36 tons, same cooldown.

Who is afraid of 3xGR when we have dual HGRs running around?

[Tripzter]

Vellron2005, on 31 October 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

Isn't 2 Gauss riffles OP enough?

Come one.. really?

Some people..

You think 30 dmg is OP? Let me know how you feel after you get hit with a 72 laser vomit alpha.

[Dimento Graven]

CygnusX7, on 13 November 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Don't forget the 52kph 3 gauss victor. 675 max damage potential.
Hey, it's just a game.

I am fairly certain that the Orion came out much, much, MUCH later... Well after the nerf limiting gauss to a maximum of two charging. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall it was well over a year after the clan 'mechs were introduced before the Orions were released.

[Dimento Graven]

Tripzter, on 13 November 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

You think 30 dmg is OP? Let me know how you feel after you get hit with a 72 laser vomit alpha.

Totally agree with you. @Vellron2005, seriously man, by that logic two of ANY weapon is "enough". Everyone should be limited to firing only two of any sort of laser, or PPC, or missile.

Tell you what... If you want to increase TTK, limiting EVERY weapon system to firing a maximum of two at a time would certainly do it! It would be boring as F, but hey, geese and ganders, what's good for one...

[Elizander]

They could make it so alpha strike Gauss Rifles fire shots one after the other instead of all at once. Even if you fire 3-4 GRs you'd get a stream of 3-4 slugs at maybe 0.125-0.25 second intervals. Would turn it into an Ultra, sorta.

[Dogstar]

Tripzter, on 29 December 2018 - 09:45 PM, said:

IMO they should just charge slower. Much slower.

Was it really worth necroing this stupid idea just to add that one comment?

[Curccu]

Dogstar, on 30 December 2018 - 02:26 AM, said:

Was it really worth necroing this stupid idea just to add that one comment?

One STUPID comment...

[Koniving]

Acersecomic, on 30 October 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

No. 3 Gauss = 45 alpha at an insane range compared to 50 Heavy Gauss alpha at 220 range, and it would also beat the purpose of having to downgrade to a Standard Engine in order to fit that kind of instand pixel accurate alpha.

You realize the twin Heavy Gauss Rifle's 50 alpha at 440 meters is...
approximately 37.5 damage, right?
At 660 its 25 damage, at 880 its 12.5 damage. (These are approximate).

There's a 42% chance (according to smurfy its +17%, which is +17% on the base 25% for a single crit) of the Heavy Gauss Rifle slug to get a 12.5 crit damage bonus. Assuming both slugs get this single crit, and taking 15% of that to add to bonus structure damage, which is unaffected by range, then against structure...

Twin Heavy Gauss at 440 meters is approximately 41.25 damage against structure if both succeed in crits.
THG at 660 meters is approximately 28.75 damage.
THG at 880 is approximately 16.25 damage. Again these three are if both of them succeed in critical hits.

While 45 at the range of three standard Gauss Rifle at 660 might be scary, consider how easily destroyed such mechs are.



Any mech trying to run this setup is an easily destroyed glass cannon, kind of like a piranha that's slower than dog-poop, sacrificing much speed and pretty much its own dignity in order to run this.

The ghost heat would make it pretty unruly, too.
Considering how MWO treats Gauss Rifles and PPCs, this means that ghost heat will also spread to combining them with PPCs and prevent the real threat of the much harder to deal and fewer sacrifices of the twin Gauss twin PPC setup.

One more for fun.