157 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

Grus, on 08 November 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Just bring back knockdown.. solved.

PGI cant do that...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

The only way I should lose my assault to a light thats very close is if I have LRMS or if there are groups of them.

Or because you're isolated... or because you didn't bring arm weapons... or because you can't aim... or because they're a better pilot... or etc...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Lights will have to rely on teammates instead of rambo yum yum leg.

So it's OK for a Light to have to rely on he team, but not an Assault? Interesting...

[Jables McBarty]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

You have flat and unimaginative thinking.

Listen bro, there's a LOT I could say about your type of thinking, but let's not make this personal.

[Jables McBarty]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Lights are not meant to rambo, but scout and do hit and runs.

Again, you keep throwing this out there. This is what you think they should do, I get it. But game mechanics + reward structure (have you ever looked at Cbill rewards from doing a "just scout" match as a light?) + the fact that this is a PVP multiplayer combat game = lights should be combat viable.

And I hate to keep saying "because math" but because lights are fast, vulnerable, and mostly close range, their role in a PVP multiplayer combat sim where damage is the most important stat and there is no role warfare, they will always be most effective at close range in their enemies' blind spots.

If PGI makes changes to accommodate assault pilots who don't think they should die to solo lights "Because Tabletop" or "I can't grasp the fact that my big boom-boom machine doesn't dominate everything" then they will need to rebuild the game from the ground up, or see lights as mostly nonviable suicide machines for masochists. (and, yes, some pilots will still play them. After I learned the game on Jenners, I moved to pre-rescale locusts. I was one of them.)

Now, if we are talking about making the game more strategically versatile, sure, I'm with you 100%. Let's rebuild the game in that direction. I love running an ECM PB on FP Scouting matches, being stealthy, picking up Intel, and sneaking by the enemy brawlers to get into the LZ. But c.f. match rewards above -- you get 1000 cbills per intel point, so when I lift off with 15 intel points, I get about 40K cbills (incl. 25K for victory) and a match score of 35. Do I think that is just? No. Do I see how it affects player decisions? Yes. Do I think it should be changed? Absolutely.

But so far as I can tell, you aren't talking about rebuilding the game from the ground up. You are asking for "Press M to kill lights" and that is game-breaking.

No option in a PvP game should be unbeatable. That's game design 101. Fat assaults that mount a bunch of torso ballistics have a counter - lights, which for reasons I've now explained several times, will always de facto leg hump - and it should stay that way.

[Armored Yokai]

Jables McBarty, on 08 November 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

Listen bro, there's a LOT I could say about your type of thinking, but let's not make this personal.

Only you are taking it personal, you aren't seeing the bigger picture and you most likely haven't played the previous mechwarrior titles, Including your 'late to the party' status that backs it up.

Jay Leon Hart, on 08 November 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

So it's OK for a Light to have to rely on he team, but not an Assault? Interesting...

Wrong assumption, Assaults have to rely on their team because they are big targets and are easily focused down.
Assaults also however should be able to go off on their own and if they encounter a light, thelight shouldn't abuse a flawed game mechanic where they are allowed to facehug legs. Assaults can be beaten by all weight classes.
Heavies are mobile and heavily armored and can sometimes brawl with assaults depending on the loadout.
Mediums can beat assaults easily in a city, because if they have jump-jets they can easily look down and poke
Lights can beat assaults without abusing leg humping, they can use the map to their advantage and peekaboo from all different directions.

[Armored Yokai]

Jables McBarty, on 08 November 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

But so far as I can tell, you aren't talking about rebuilding the game from the ground up. You are asking for "Press M to kill lights" and that is game-breaking.

That's not game breaking. Pressing M will merely allow players to look at their feet and be able to shoot at the target.
I'd rebuild this game if i could and add features that PGI can't add simply because they no longer have a coder.
Knockdown, Melee are features that could have been added, but it's not possible so, you have to make do with what you have and increasing ram damage is possible for them so it has to be that instead.

[Jables McBarty]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

That's not game breaking. Pressing M will merely allow players to look at their feet and be able to shoot at the target.
I'd rebuild this game if i could and add features that PGI can't add simply because they no longer have a coder.
Knockdown, Melee are features that could have been added, but it's not possible so, you have to make do with what you have and increasing ram damage is possible for them so it has to be that instead.

That won't stop leg-humping. As I've said before, it'll punish noob leg-humpers, but a skilled light pilot will stay just outside of the damage/knockdown range and still dominate slow assaults. Institute that change, whatever, but you'll be back a month later with the same thread. Because, as I've explained, game mechanics make close combat the most viable tactic for lights.

Look at the Linebacker, which is also incredibly agile and mobile. It can thrive at a mobile ranged harasser role - because it can mount an order of magnitude more firepower than the average light. But it also gets into your rear arc and tears up assault butts. And it can also facehug, because it has armor.

Lights have neither the armor nor the firepower of a linebacker, which greatly limits their flexibility.

As for Press M, yes, it is, for all of the reasons above. Maybe next time you are in the 'Mech Store, you should look at the ROM stats--they are there for everyone to see. If you don't like them, don't buy it.

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

Only you are taking it personal, you aren't seeing the bigger picture and you most likely haven't played the previous mechwarrior titles, Including your 'late to the party' status that backs it up.

I played MW3 and MW4, watched friends play MW2, and did a playthrough each of MA1 and 2 on borrowed xboxes. I played MW:DA with friends in high school.

I'm late to MWO b/c I didn't have a machine that could run it till 2015.

BUT I've also played other multiplayer games and understand how game balance and player incentives work.

And I've spent long enough on gaming forums to recognize when people are making legitimate criticisms about the state of balance, and when someone is just complaining because their favorite character/unit/tactic is no longer viable and they aren't willing to change with the meta or accept that there are instant win cards in balanced multiplayer.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

Wrong assumption

So you agree that it's OK for an Assault 'mech to have to rely on the team in some situations, like getting attacked by a Light? Good.

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

Assaults have to rely on their team because they are big targets and are easily focused down.
Assaults also however should be able to go off on their own and if they encounter a light, thelight shouldn't abuse a flawed game mechanic where they are allowed to facehug legs. Assaults can be beaten by all weight classes.

So... Lights should be able to go out on their own and if they encounter an Assault, the Assault shouldn't be able to abuse weapon boating to instantly kill the Light?

Lights can be beaten by every weight class, that's one of the reasons so few people play them.

[Armored Yokai]

Jables McBarty, on 08 November 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

That won't stop leg-humping. As I've said before, it'll punish noob leg-humpers, but a skilled light pilot will stay just outside of the damage/knockdown range and still dominate slow assaults. Institute that change, whatever, but you'll be back a month later with the same thread. Because, as I've explained, game mechanics make close combat the most viable tactic for lights.



I played MW3 and MW4, watched friends play MW2, and did a playthrough each of MA1 and 2 on borrowed xboxes. I played MW:DA with friends in high school.

Very good, I'll give you credit and more respect for that at least. I hope what you speak is the truth.
As for the Leg humping, that will not work 100%, but it will definitely help punish leg humpers, I just want something that will allow me to aim at them so they can't abuse it.
If they kill me, then that's all them and they deserve the kill and No, I wont make a thread because of it.

[Armored Yokai]

Jay Leon Hart, on 08 November 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

So you agree that it's OK for an Assault 'mech to have to rely on the team in some situations, like getting attacked by a Light? Good.

Wrong assumption again.
Lights should not have an easy victory over an Assault and the assault should not have to have help simply because the light is leg humping.

Edited by Armored Yokai, 08 November 2018 - 01:33 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

Wrong assumption again.
Lights should not have an easy victory over an Assault and the assault should not have to have help simply because the light is leg humping.

My assumption is that you were finally being consistent and admitting that it's OK to need help sometimes. Clearly you have learned nothing from this thread and are biased towards Assaults.

Assaults should also not have an easy victory against a Light, it should require skill to beat one. If it is so easy to play a Light, please prove it by playing nothing but Lights one month.

[Grus]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

PGI cant do that...

They "could" the code is still there just dissabled.

[Armored Yokai]

Jay Leon Hart, on 08 November 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

Assaults should also not have an easy victory against a Light, it should require skill to beat one. If it is so easy to play a Light, please prove it by playing nothing but Lights one month.

Assaults should have an easy victory and should dominate all weight classes 1v1 NOT lights. Heavies and Mediums have easy victories vs Lights, I don't resort to leg humping because it's exploiting and I play lights with weird builds and I've done it numerous times in the past with low tier lights vs Annihilators/Banshees/Atlases and more.

Clearly YOU haven't learned anything from this thread, huddling with people who agree with you DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT.
PGI cannot code Knockdown,M Screen Feature, and Melee so we have to resort increased damage from leg impacts

YOU fail to realize the benefits of increased ram damage, ALL CLASSES WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS NOT JUST ASSAULTS.
YOU fail to realize why Solaris DIV 1 doesn't have Piranhas and PB locusts, you will see why because, PGI knows that Piranhas and PB locusts will destroy assaults with ease, especially since AC2s dominate div 1.

Please don't debate with me any longer, this will go nowhere.
This is turning into one of those debates, so please don't try to debate any longer or you will cause my thread closing.

Edited by Armored Yokai, 08 November 2018 - 02:21 PM.

[Mr Andersson]

I agree with the OP. Leg humping is ridiculous. Both from a thematic and gameplay standpoint.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

Assaults should have an easy victory and should dominate all weight classes 1v1 NOT lights. Heavies and Mediums have easy victories vs Lights, I don't resort to leg humping because it's exploiting and I play lights with weird builds and I've done it numerous times in the past with low tier lights vs Annihilators/Banshees/Atlases and more.

Clearly YOU haven't learned anything from this thread, huddling with people who agree with you DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT.
PGI cannot code Knockdown,M Screen Feature, and Melee so we have to resort increased damage from leg impacts

YOU fail to realize the benefits of increased ram damage, ALL CLASSES WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS NOT JUST ASSAULTS.
YOU fail to realize why Solaris DIV 1 doesn't have Piranhas and PB locusts, you will see why because, PGI knows that Piranhas and PB locusts will destroy assaults with ease, especially since AC2s dominate div 1.

Arguing you is like arguing with a wall.

YOU think Assaults should beat everything (including Lights) because every SINGLE PLAYER MW game before has had it that way. However, this is a PVP MULTIPLAYER ONLY MW game and as such, Lights need to be as combat capable as Assaults. It doesn't matter if YOU like it, that's the way it is.

I'm not huddling with anyone, I play the game when I feel like it and (generally) don't make threads complaining that this or that tactic/'mech/build/playstyle is OP or needs a nerf.

There are as many downsides to increased ram damage as there are upsides. How do you not realise this?

Maybe Lights are OP in Solaris (I doubt it) but I'm not inclined to care, because that's just a side dish to the main course that is 12v12. Personally, my favourite mode is Scouting, but I don't look at balance based on Scouting, because that would be stupid. Don't be stupid.

Arguing with me is entertaining (so I'm told), sorry you're not entertained.

If it's that much trouble, perhaps stop making so many pointless whine threads?

[Armored Yokai]

Jay Leon Hart, on 08 November 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

[color=#959595]Lights need to be as combat capable as Assaults. [/color]


If it's that much trouble, perhaps stop making so many pointless whine threads?

This thread is showing a potential counter to beating leg-humping without resorting to exploiting.
Tonnage difference, Lights should not be able to easily take down an assault.
Yeah I'm aware on the downsides but they aren't game breaking.
20 tons and 100 tons? 20 ton leg hump = bad. 20 ton running around and poking = good.
It's not pointless if it's actually a valid game changing reason and I'm sorry if you can't notice that and i'm sorry about who lied to you.
Bye and good-luck, my time with you is over.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Armored Yokai, on 08 November 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

This thread is showing a potential counter to beating leg-humping without resorting to exploiting.
Tonnage difference, Lights should not be able to easily take down an assault.
Yeah I'm aware on the downsides but they aren't game breaking.
20 tons and 100 tons? 20 ton leg hump = bad. 20 ton running around and poking = good.
It's not pointless if it's actually a valid game changing reason and I'm sorry if you can't notice that and i'm sorry about who lied to you.
Bye and good-luck, my time with you is over.

This thread is you complaining about a non-issue, being told why it's a non-issue, being told how to deal with said non-issue and ignoring all advice to keep bleating on about the same non-issue.

You keep saying "easily take down" yet fail to respond to claims of how well you need to pilot a Light just to get near the Assault in the first place, unless the Assault pilot in question is bad (for whatever reason, be it build, awareness, aiming ability).

It is pointless if you're screaming into an empty room...

I "look forward" to your next "valid game changing reason" thread

HAHAHA! Looks like someone was so salty, they went to my profile to downvote me. Good to know