46 replies to this topic

[Racerxintegra2k]

Piranha 1: Machine gun build

Bloodasp: 2xGuass+6ERML's

MadCat mkII: 2x uac10's 2x uac5

Hellbringer: ECM Laser vom

Super Nova A: full LRMmage

What are the closest IS counterpart to the above clan mechs ? What are some other Clan mechs that don't even have a comparable IS counterpart ? are there any IS mechs that dont have a Clan counterpart ?

[Jables McBarty]

I'll bite. All from QP, as I'm an infrequent FP player.

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Piranha 1: Machine gun build

Closest IMO is a PB. Far less firepower, far less dangerous, but about as irritating.

Maybe the SRM Javelins as a similar close-range high-risk high-reward assault irritator.

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Bloodasp: 2xGuass+6ERML's

Can do on a MAL-2P but HP placement won't be as nice.

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

MadCat mkII: 2x uac10's 2x uac5

Apparently Nightstar Champion? You can get a similar effect from large Dakka assaults MAL, ANH, and Sleipnir, but not the exact mix.

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Hellbringer: ECM Laser vom

New Warhammer

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Super Nova A: full LRMmage

Tempest. Shave 20 tons and it's still more effective than this noob-magnet.

[GasManSR49]

too easy.

Flea: Machine gun build

Fafnir: 2x gauss, 5x ERML

Warhammer-4(L): ECM Laser vom

Anni: full LRMmage

[El Bandito]

Jables McBarty, on 14 November 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Tempest. Shave 20 tons and it's still more effective than this noob-magnet.

Tempest is not a great LRM boat.

[Jackal Noble]

The Awesome is though

[Prototelis]

Why do you expect two different tech bases to have direct counterparts?

Instead consider what IS offers that is a direct counter to what the Clans bring.

PIR; wolfhound, flea, urbie, commandos, and even the laser locusts are good counters to the PIR.

Bloodasp; these things are only popular because you can do a poor man's deathstrike with ecm. They have hideously awful hitboxes and agility to boot. Any 4 lb10 mech is going to ruin the blood asp. The fafnir offers all the same flair, albeit a little slower. Dual gauss, 3 large, two medium fafnir will win any staring contest with the bloodass.

Super nova; I guess you haven't run into eisenhorne lately. There are direct counterparts here. Lrm fafnirs, maulers, and awesome seem plenty strong right now. Added bonus, IS lrms fire off in big clouds of **** yo ams. In a lrm on lrm fight IS is killing it unless you manage to close within minimum.

Hellbringer; I can't think of a heavy ecm equipped laser vomit mech off the top of my head, but there are plenty of cool operating IS laserr vomit heavies with so much armor having the spud detection prevention system is largely irrelevant. The grasshopper probably being the best of them, but I'd go with the black knight if you're on level terrain.

But clans op, amirite.

Edited by Prototelis, 14 November 2018 - 10:47 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Tempest is not a great LRM boat.

The Supernova is not a great LRM boat.

[Eisenhorne]

Racerxintegra2k, on 14 November 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Piranha 1: Machine gun build

Bloodasp: 2xGuass+6ERML's

MadCat mkII: 2x uac10's 2x uac5

Hellbringer: ECM Laser vom

Super Nova A: full LRMmage

What are the closest IS counterpart to the above clan mechs ? What are some other Clan mechs that don't even have a comparable IS counterpart ? are there any IS mechs that dont have a Clan counterpart ?

As a frequent IS FP player...

Piranha 1: Machine gun build

IS Counter - Wolfhound / JVN-10P (SRM Bomber) / Assassin. Not a crit light, but it fills a similar role. Good backstabbers with a great firepower / mobility balance.

Bloodasp: 2xGuass+6ERML's

IS Counter - Warhammer 6R, 2 Gauss + 4 ERML. 20 tons lighter, significantly more agile. BASP has a bit more armor and ECM, and some longer range lasers, but the hammer is much better at poking, and runs cooler.

MadCat mkII: 2x uac10's 2x uac5

IS Counter - VTR-9A1 (2x UAC10 UAC5), Annihilator / Fafnir (2x UAC10 2x UAC5) - The VTR is a bit lighter with slightly less firepower, but has better maneuverability. The Fafnir and Annihilator have better hard points and armor, but are less maneuverable. They have more armor / ECM though to help make up for it.

Hellbringer: ECM Laser vom

IS Counter - Top Dog (Thunderbolt Hero) - OK, it doesn't have ECM, but performance wise my hellbringer K/D is almost identical to my top dog's (3.62 vs 3.65) over 500+ games on each. They seem comparable in role and performance to me. The fact that it's a hero does irk me though. The RGH-3A makes an acceptable substitute, but has worse hardpoints and no range quirk.

Super Nova A: full LRMmage

IS Counter - Oh man. IS has way better LRM boats. The SNV-A isn't even the best clan LRM boat, that title is held by the NCT-B with 6x LRM15. But the LRM Fafnir is better than both IMO. It's slow, but -nothing- comes close to the power of an 80 missile alpha strike from 4x LRM 20. AMS is useless before it. The FNR-5E is the best LRM boat in the game, accept no substitutes.


As far as IS mechs that don't have clan counterparts... The Assassin has no real clan counterpart. A 120+ KPH SRM bomber with significant survivability quirks and jump jets. I guess the Linebacker fills that role, sorta, but it's not as fast or agile. They have the Arctic Wolf, which trades survivability for firepower, but I'd take an assassin over it any day.

[Prototelis]

Jables McBarty, on 14 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Supernova is not a great LRM boat.

Lrmboats aren't great.

(Not really, some of them offer good dps now. I just wanted to fit in)

[Jables McBarty]

Prototelis, on 14 November 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

Lrmboats aren't great.

(Not really, some of them offer good dps now. I just wanted to fit in)

Lol, absolutely fair

To be perfectly honest, I was being disingeuous in my response to Bandito. I don't know the "objective" standards by which to measure LRMboats, but I enjoy the Tempest and think it is a good lurmer. But I play it as a front-line LRM brawler, using my 4MLs as much as my 2LRM20s, soaking up damage, and covering teammates with ECM.

I just f***ing hate it when I see a SNV-A on my team. Basically means we'll play 11v12, lose, and then get to spectate a fresh fatty geting slaughtered at the end.

[Eisenhorne]

Jables McBarty, on 14 November 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

I just f***ing hate it when I see a SNV-A on my team. Basically means we'll play 11v12, lose, and then get to spectate a fresh fatty geting slaughtered at the end.

It's not a quick play mech, and it's useless on half the maps in the game. It's a specialized FP mech. I'll still bring it to quick play anyway, but only because I despise quick play and trolling it when bored (or unable to get a FP match) is more fun than trying to actually play in that garbage mode.

[Prototelis]

Eisenhorne, on 14 November 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

It's not a quick play mech, and it's useless on half the maps in the game. It's a specialized FP mech. I'll still bring it to quick play anyway, but only because I despise quick play and trolling it when bored (or unable to get a FP match) is more fun than trying to actually play in that garbage mode.

I'd listen to this guy.

Also **** this guy. <3

[Tiewolf]

Jables McBarty, on 14 November 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Supernova is not a great LRM boat.

*coughs

[Daurock]

Eisenhorne, on 14 November 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

It's not a quick play mech, and it's useless on half the maps in the game. It's a specialized FP mech. I'll still bring it to quick play anyway, but only because I despise quick play and trolling it when bored (or unable to get a FP match) is more fun than trying to actually play in that garbage mode.

This is true. The LRM Supernova is Way Over-Tonned for the amount of firepower it brings, unless you're carrying enough missiles to bring down an entire city with it. (Which you'll only actually ever fire in a FP match.)

If I'm going to troll QP with LRMs, I'm doing it in a hunchback. It can keep up with the nascar crew, carry LRM 60 with enough ammo for most QP matches, and even carry my own damn narcs since no one else probably is doing it, all at the same time. Depending on how cheeky I want to be, I can even outfit it with jump jets.

Edited by Daurock, 14 November 2018 - 11:28 AM.

[Lykaon]

GasManSR49, on 14 November 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

too easy.

Flea: Machine gun build

Fafnir: 2x gauss, 5x ERML

Warhammer-4(L): ECM Laser vom

Anni: full LRMmage

Flea?...

There is no Inner Sphere light mech that even comes remotely close to a Piranha. Not even half way as good.

The clan light mechs just have way to many advantages these days. Half weight MGs and plentiful chassis with high numbers of ballistic hardpoints makes the light machinegun mech a uniquely clan ability. Clan lights also enjoy a much larger variety of weapon options at pretty much half the weight across the board. Add to that the superior weight to armor value of clan ferro fibrious and the ability to ustilise an XL engine without the risk an Inner Sphere mech has to accept and it's a no brainer In quick play there is next to no reason to utilize I.S. light mechs these days and of the clan light mechs there is little reason not to take a PIR.
If you want to compare an I.S. light mech against a PIR that Inner Sphere light MUST be playing a different game than a PIR chassis since it can not ever out MG or light energy boat better than PIR.

Fafnir ( FNR 5-B ) fair choice. while the Madcat MKII enjoys significant mobility and superior geometry over a Fafnir the Fafnir does have an ECM.

Warhammer (loyalty) is essentially a slower,shorter ranged,lower damage (by quite a bit) and if utilizing an XL engine more fragile Hellbringer. It's pretty much inferior in every way to it's clan counterpart. The Hellbringer's speed and raw hitting power make it far better at the hide and poke high alpha laser vomit game so in QP there is little reason to take the warhammer instead.

Annihilator (Mean Baby) well firstly it's a hero mech with a pay wall. Secondly the Mauler MAL-1R may be a slightly better option since it is a C-bill variant and has slightly better LRM quirks -10% LRM cooldown as well as the -10% missile heat the Mean baby has.The Mauler is also more easily ignored than an Annihilator since 100 ton mechs draw fire probably more than any other mech out side of Piranahs.


I suppose my point (if I have one) is that you should not even try to compete with what the clans do exceptionally well and do something that is more uniquely Inner Sphere.

Edited by Lykaon, 14 November 2018 - 11:57 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

Eisenhorne, on 14 November 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

It's not a quick play mech, and it's useless on half the maps in the game. It's a specialized FP mech. I'll still bring it to quick play anyway, but only because I despise quick play and trolling it when bored (or unable to get a FP match) is more fun than trying to actually play in that garbage mode.

It may be a garbage mode, but it's my garbage mode

TY for the explanation. It makes me a little less angry about it.

Not a lot.

But at least a little less

[Prototelis]

Lykaon, on 14 November 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

There is no Inner Sphere light mech that even comes remotely close to a Piranha. Not even half way as good.

Lol wut. I'll give it to you on nothing critting like the PIR, but there are several meta IS lights that smash the pir. The PIR is the only really good clan light right now and its totally outclassed by the laser fle, Urbie, wolfhound, etc.

The PIR is really strong, but its far from being the strongest light in the game because there are so many counters within its own weight class.

Edited by Prototelis, 14 November 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Prototelis, on 14 November 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

Lol wut. I'll give it to you on nothing critting like the PIR, but there are several meta IS lights that smash the pir. The PIR is the only really good clan light right now and its totally outclassed by the laser fle, Urbie, wolfhound, etc.

The PIR is really strong, but its far from being the strongest light in the game because there are so many counters within its own weight class.

It's definitely the strongest light mech when it comes to killing heavy or assault class mechs (that aren't streak boats). It is also definitely outclassed by other light mechs. A Wolfhound should have relatively little difficulty killing a Piranha, assuming the pilots are equally skilled.

[Prototelis]

Difference being, in my opinion, the survivability between the two.

The PIR is a lot less forgiving of mistakes. Its a little more hit or miss, where as the wolfhound seems to perform a little better on average due to its tankiness.

I will however concede that the PIR-1 is the ultimate assault potato peeler.

Edited by Prototelis, 14 November 2018 - 02:03 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

lb2 and AC2 Annihilator/Mauler
3LBX10 Warhammer
SRM Assassin
MRM Mgun spl Wolverine
MGun Fleawee/Javelin
3 ASRM6 1 UAC20 Victor
LBX Sleepclops


For defense only
-----------------------------
2 LBX20 2 LBX10 Annihilator
Any Fafnir because they are easily focused down while pushing

Edited by Armored Yokai, 14 November 2018 - 02:15 PM.